Why bother going out in the cold ?

[GasGiant]

Yep. I understand that there are subtle colours in the moon but I dont see them. I see grey scale.  Some of the coloured images we see are pretty, but come on. ridiculous. It may as well be tinted pink with black spots  😂

[ANTARES1_1]

5 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

Do you mean mineral moon images? I quite like them. I can see subtle colours on the moon and I’m not a fan of those who “greyscale” their lunar images. That’s just as fake. I also find that generally kids, with their younger eyes, are better at seeing subtle colours than most adults. There’s a topic on seeing lunar colour here…

 

1 hour ago, GasGiant said:

 

 

 

You know how hard it is to get a good mineral image of the moon😭. I tries doing it yesterday but was only able to get 2 exposures of the moon😭😭due to the clouds

[GasGiant]

Ask 1 million people to look at a full moon and tell you what colour do they see. 1 million people will say shades of grey 

[ANTARES1_1]

1 minute ago, GasGiant said:

Ask 1 million people to look at a full moon and tell you what colour do they see. 1 million people will say shades of grey 

Until you ask an astronomer

[GasGiant]

6 minutes ago, ANTARES1_1 said:

Until you ask an astronomer

using filters 

 

[Ags]

Most nights I see the Moon as pure grayscale, but there have been a couple nights when it has looked EXACTLY like a mineral moon picture. I am not talking about subtle shades but strong, fabulous colors. The equipment used on the most memorable night was a 102 mm Mak and a 17 or 24 mm Hyperion. At that time I was unaware of mineral moons (this was a long time ago) so I was totally surprised to see color.

I think the observation was in late twilight, so possibly the ambient light prevented me being dazzled and I could accordingly perceive the colors. The phase was 70-80% full.

Edited September 19 by Ags

[saac]

1 hour ago, ANTARES1_1 said:

You know how hard it is to get a good mineral image of the moon😭. I tries doing it yesterday but was only able to get 2 exposures of the moon😭😭due to the clouds

Try video rather than individual exposures.

Jim 

[saac]

19 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

I enjoy being outside even when it’s cold.  And of course it’s not the same. I also got rid of as much unnecessary tech as possible. No PC or laptop for me, although I have a smartphone and iPad. Personally I was more than happy to see the PC out of the door having worked in IT for 30 yrs 😀

You see that is it, it should be difficult and it should require some effort to reflect its worth.  Yeah I'm happy with the cold, the dark and the frustrating clouds and the occasional tech failure, just makes the images all the more valuable to me. 

Jim 

Edited September 19 by saac

[saac]

 

2 hours ago, GasGiant said:

This why I dont trust a lot of astro images. Its all edited with artistic license.

One pet peeve of mine are the colourised images of the moon. Utterly ridiculous in my opinion  

The use of false colour is a legitimate and well exercised technique in professional astronomy. The colours are not placed randomly they are used to differentiate the presence of different elements, surface relief, gravitational field strength, temperature and a whole range of other physical properties. It is a legitimate scientific practice used not only astronomy but virtually all sciences. 

Jim 

[Elp]

5 hours ago, saac said:

For me it still has some way to go before it is treated as something other than a curiosity. 

The thing I don't like is how it's all shovelled into the term AI. Typically generative art is not AI in the true form of the term, there is no intelligence being offered, simple regurgitation of inputs they've been trained upon.

Regarding some way to go, you haven't seen the current trend in the media industries. Just this week Lionsgate the film company signed a deal with Runway to give them access to their library with the intention of creating a tool for them. Straight away jobs in the industry are at risk from planners, set designers, camera people, electricians, artists, actors, VFX studios... Anything or anyone that contributes towards making a film has suddenly almost become redundant. The technology is here now, and almost anyone can use it.

Already there have been numerous photography competitions around the world where judges have unknowingly awarded first prize to AI generated photos, so the quality speaks for itself. You can now easily create videos of anyone doing potentially anything, and anyone can do it with access to a computer and minimal skill. Look up how many very successful Instagram accounts are AI generated, people actually follow these none existent "people".

I get the appeal of it, I've used it for rapid ideas generation and also for image generation that normally you'd have to go over a potential grey area of copyright infringement by sourcing such images via an internet search. And no, not all peoples jobs will go. But a lot will be affected and replaced by such tools, I've seen it already, companies already ask the earth for deliverables without paying a fair wage, this will only make matters worse, never mind things like actors previous likenesses or voices being used going forward without the sources getting compensation, this is already happening.

 

Edited September 19 by Elp

[saac]

5 hours ago, GasGiant said:

Ask 1 million people to look at a full moon andhat we c tell you what colour do they see. 1 million people will say shades of grey 

But that does not mean the colours are not there and it is a marvelous thing that we can enhance what we can't see - just as the telescope does for distant objects  . I think it's already been mentioned but as we age we lose the colour acuity of our youth; I'm always impressed that my daughter can pick out the subtle colouration in the orion nebula while all I see is grey.  

Jim

Edited September 19 by saac

[wesdon1]

Personally I find AI generated images only good for "nice pics" to decorate a "Fake_book" ( Facebook ) page or "Insta_garbage" ( Instagram ) post lol. Actual real astrophotography gives me pleasure on so many more levels than just pretty pictures! I love being outside in all weathers, I love the anticipation of that first sub coming through after setting up my rig, the peacefulness and serenity of being alone at night with my rig purring away capturing data, while enjoying my hot coffee. I love the excitement of sitting down to check through my latest data I acquired the night before. I love the sharing of real hard won astro images with other like minded people, the sharing of knowledge, the post man delivering my latest astro gear, the list goes on and on! 

AI can not and will never get even close to true sincere Astronomy and Astrophotography!

[Ratlet]

You can 100% see subtle colours on the moon.  It's not just black and white.

[Bivanus]

Because I can ditch the wife and have a quiet drink ? Take that AI !

[GasGiant]

[saac]

29 minutes ago, GasGiant said:

Looks like a kids drawing with the big chunky crayons  

Jim 

[PeterStudz]

19 minutes ago, saac said:

Looks like a kids drawing with the big chunky crayons  

Jim 

And look at the lurid colours on this… what are they thinking 😃

[GasGiant]

20 minutes ago, saac said:

Looks like a kids drawing with the big chunky crayons  

Jim 

funny you should say that.

 

Image taken by two astrophotographers 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/astrophotographers-shoot-ridiculously-detailed-moon-pictures/101363074

[PeterStudz]

7 hours ago, GasGiant said:

Ask 1 million people to look at a full moon and tell you what colour do they see. 1 million people will say shades of grey 

I wouldn’t trust this. It reminds me of when I’ve done solar outreach, mostly kids, but adults and a few school teachers too. I always ask “what colour is the sun?” I’ve now asked this to dozens of people and the reply has never been white. Always yellow or orange.

[Ags]

To be fair on your audience, you can't actually look at the Sun, so people are mostly going on what they've heard. Anyway, I have seen G stars in my telescope, and they are yellow. And they're called yellow dwarfs...

[PeterStudz]

5 minutes ago, Ags said:

To be fair on your audience, you can't actually look at the Sun, so people are mostly going on what they've heard. Anyway, I have seen G stars in my telescope, and they are yellow. And they're called yellow dwarfs...

Indeed, this is true. Although some are sure that they have looked at the sun when I’m sure that they haven’t. I mainly ask the question in order to get past the “ohhh… why is the sun white?” question from some people when they are at the eyepiece. 

[Mircea]

On 18/09/2024 at 20:17, GasGiant said:

When Ai can do it for you from the comfort of your armchair ..... 😂

 

 

Such question was answered very long time ago.

''Navigare necesse est, vivere non este necesse''.

For us, amateur astronomers: ''Observare necesse est, vivere non este necesse''.

So, it don't matter how cold is, that is the real thing. 

Mircea

[saac]

1 hour ago, GasGiant said:

funny you should say that.

 

Image taken by two astrophotographers 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/astrophotographers-shoot-ridiculously-detailed-moon-pictures/101363074

I'm not that keen on it, too saturated for my taste. They may have leaned too heavily on the crayons  

Jim 

 

[Ags]

2 hours ago, GasGiant said:

Well, I aint never seen the Moon looking like that!

[Gonariu]

I am 99% a visualist and not only for astronomical observation but also when I happen to go out of the small village where I live. I prefer seeing more than photographing, I can't reconcile both things together. For me seeing is knowing, having a direct experience of things and reality; from my old memories of ancient Greek there is a perfect* with the meaning of present, οιδα (òida) which literally means "I have seen" but if one has seen then one knows and in fact when one finds it it is translated into the present "I know". Today many only want to photograph for the most varied reasons, but photography is only a mediated and not direct knowledge, in the end we are too dependent on technology and this is not good. I often observe the sun and make a hand drawing that in this maximum phase of the sunspot cycle takes me up to an hour, I find it a very zen way to relax; instead today we want everything immediately and this is not always possible in life but it can take time. In Zen meditation, you sit with your eyes half-closed in front of a white wall and concentrate on your breathing: nothing more useless according to today's modern mentality in which we often rush, but in the end we don't enjoy things and we are more dissatisfied than before: things are for man and not man for things.

* The Greek perfect corresponds to the English present perfect.

Edited September 19 by Gonariu