New to equipment

[AstroMuni]

26 minutes ago, ANTARES1_1 said:

This spot ca  be used in order to place your camera and greatly increase the fov( by removing the lid and attaching a camera

I dont think its as simple & straight forward as removing the secondary and attaching a camera in its place. Its expensive business to attach a Fastar/Hyperstar lens equipment for your camera.

Edited September 10 by AstroMuni

[Elp]

A Hyperstar lens can cost just as much as the OTA, it's not particularly difficult to use, just added cost.

[Tiny Clanger]

12 hours ago, dom088 said:

Hello,

I am completely new to astronomy but I am looking to learn a bit. 

I have a property out away from the city with very little light surrounding so the sky lights up with stars and planets. 

I have some young kids and I would like to get some equipment to view planets and such. 

 

I was looking at a sky watcher 8" dobsonian as people are selling them used and I can get them for a fair price. 

 

 

 

Is this any good? I'm not looking to spend alot of money, maybe  around that price point for the sky watcher unit. 

Would we be able to see Saturn's rings and such? Or can we buy additional lenses to be able to see them?  Any recommendations?

If you have the storage space, are OK with shifting a big awkward (yet quite delicate) telescope from storage to observing spot, have a decently level viewing spot, and your children are tall enough to see in a dob eyepiece without having to perch precariously on a stool or something, an 8" dob is, without doubt, the best bang for your buck for visual astronomy.

They have drawbacks, every telescope does. As long as you are OK with their size and weight (which I suspect is why so many folk sell them on 'hardly used' after being told they are the ideal starter 'scope ) the drawbacks are minor : collimation is not a problem if you approach it sensibly, a dob really suits someone who is a bit of a tinkerer, happy to do little performance enhancing, hands-on upgrades e.g. flocking the tube interior (usually by adding sticky back black velour to reduce internal reflections) adding some counterweights to adjust the balance of the tube, and removing the main (primary) mirror to clean it  when needed (which isn't often). Dob bases are usually made of some particle board (like flatpack furniture) which keeps costs low but does make them susceptible to damp.

For planets and the Moon you may find there's almost too much light collected by an 8" 'scope, there are simple ways around this though. Keeping one of those objects in view at high magnification (when it moves surprisingly quickly across your field of view through one of the standard issue eyepieces) by nudging the 'scope is a skill you have to develop, you can always throw some money at wider field of view eyepieces though  (there's always a way around a drawback, but it's seldom cheap ...)

The dob USP is that you get a great light gathering aperture on a steady mount at a bargain price. You probably know that the Dobsonian label refers to the mount, pioneered by John Dobson. An 8" Newtonian reflector (which is what a dob's OTA - optical tube assembly-  is) on a tripod type mount requires an extremely strong and sturdy (and therefore heavy and expensive) setup to hold it steady, move it smoothly, and stay where you put it. For all round observing, and with the caveats in my first paragraph, a dob is the obvious choice . A whole used dob will typically cost less than just a used mount capable of taking an 8" Newtonian.

I'd suggest going to have a look at a few dobs 'in the flesh' if possible, and if you spot a Bresser 8" available used for not much more than a skywatcher, go for the Bresser, it has better bearings and a base which can be dismantled easily for transport, IIRC the base is slightly lighter than SW too. Worthwhile extras to look out for which might be included in a used sale are better finders (many dob users have a right angled optical finder and a non-magnifying led one like a Telrad or Rigel Quickfinder to help point the 'scope where you want it) .

Budget for adding some better eyepieces too if you get a 'scope with just the manufacturer's supplied ones, they are the astro equivalent of those stingy ink cartridges bundled with an inkjet printer, they get you started but ...

 

Edited September 10 by Tiny Clanger

[seven_legs]

Would definitely recommend an 8" dob. 

Edited September 10 by seven_legs

[dom088]

Hello all,

I am definitely looking to keep it simple and just set up and view. Nothing more at this point. My knowledge is very very limited. 

What I would like is something simple that I can aim and zoom/focus and see planets, that's all. I would like to be able to see planets clear and hopefully Saturn's rings very clear also. 

 

This also is why I suggested maybe a refractor telescope as it's the 'traditional' style and easy for all to use 

Also looks like less space would be needed, and also can be set up with the adjustable stand for unlevel ground (tripod stand)

Plz excuse my ignorance with this topic. 

Edited September 10 by dom088

[StevieDvd]

I'm not a big fan of dobs but given your stated requirements even I'd say the dob is a wise choice. Once you get started on refractors and newtonians the mount becomes a major influence in the usage and increases the budget for a 'decent' setup.

Which ever way you go, and depending on your ability to find objects in the sky, it may pay to look at the Celestron Starsense app and hardware to help you locate dso's and planets.  The holder with licenses are often sold independent of the mounts/scopes they come with - I bought a second hand scope/mount just to get the holder & license.  You can also find free software but may have to make a diy holder to do something similar.

The Skywatcher 8" dob is much better than a host of the budget full mount/scopes on Ebay/Amazon - so don't trust the pictures on the boxes.

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

11 minutes ago, dom088 said:

What I would like is something simple that I can aim and zoom/focus and see planets, that's all. I would like to be able to see planets clear and hopefully Saturn's rings very clear also. 

A Dobsonian ticks these boxes.

 

12 minutes ago, dom088 said:

This also is why I suggested maybe a refractor telescope as it's the 'traditional' style and easy for all to use 

Also looks like less space would be needed, and also can be set up with the adjustable stand for unlevel ground (tripod stand)

Depends on what size it is.  A refractor of 8" aperture would be a monster, very heavy and very expensive and require a substantial and expensive mount.  If it's of a manageable size e.g 4" aperture, an 8" Dobsonian would easily out-perform it.   You are right about using a tripod on uneven ground, but the problem of using a Dob base on uneven ground could be overcome.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

I think the consensus around an 8" Dobsonian is there for a reason, even if its not to the specific taste of the poster.

You'll easily get good planetary views with an 8" Dobsonian.  Saturn's rings should be very obvious and on a good night the Cassini Division should be visible if the rings are not straight-on, provided you have a barlow and/or higher power eyepiece.  On Jupiter you'll get the equatorial belts, plus the great red spot and transit shadows.  You won't get any detail on Uranus but you will be able to make it out if you can find it.

The 'showpiece objects' (Orion nebula, when it's in the sky), Andromeda, M81/82, etc. should all be well within your grasp.

If you're concerned about actually finding objects there are plenty of tools to help, like Astrohopper:

https://artyom-beilis.github.io/astrohopper.html

Medium-sized Dobsonians (6/8/10/12) really do offer the best value for capability for general-purpose visual astronomy in most instances.

[bosun21]

6 hours ago, ANTARES1_1 said:

This spot ca  be used in order to place your camera and greatly increase the fov( by removing the lid and attaching a camera)@Nyctimene

Yeah just the thing for an absolute beginner to tackle on a budget. Please try and put some thought into your replies 🙄.

[bosun21]

Do yourself a favour and buy yourself an 8" dobsonian new or used. You will have a great telescope to learn your way around the skies. You can also use your phone with a phone holder to help you find the less obvious targets. With your dark skies you will have some wonderful views. This will allow you to decide after a period of time whether astronomy is your cup of tea. If yes you can then look to moving on to more specialised equipment. If not then you won't be out a fortune. Best of luck on your journey.

[Astronomist]

Yet another vote for an 8" dobsonian, any of the common ones, such as the bresser, skywatcher and GSO models are great choices. I wouldn't worry about setting up on uneven ground, it has to be pretty bad before the dob will have any problems.

[M40]

The 8" dob is a great telescope to start with, they are a simple plonk it down (doesn’t need to be level), aim at your target, focus and off you go. In saying that, have a good read of tiny clangers post earlier as the dob reflector does have a few drawbacks in size, storage, weight but most importantly the eyepiece will be at the far end of the telescope (the highest point) which could make it difficult for children to use. If you decide on the dob route, can I suggest a couple of future upgrades in a moon filter ( the moon will be very bright in the dob) and a zoom eyepiece. Everything moves really fast through the eyepiece, the zoom will help you stay on target as you just zoom in and out rather than change eyepieces. I had my dob about 2-3 years before I moved on and I never used a barlow, never used any other filter, never used a dew shield and never colimated it (sits back and waits for the gasps of horror 😉) . You can take pictures by just putting your phone on the eyepiece, but a mobile phone holder helps a lot. 

If you choose the refractor route, the eyepiece is at the lowest point of the telescope so its much easier for little ones to use, but.... the moon will always be good but to see planets, the bigger the better. All the best. 

[Tiny Clanger]

2 hours ago, Astronomist said:

Yet another vote for an 8" dobsonian, any of the common ones, such as the bresser, skywatcher and GSO models are great choices. I wouldn't worry about setting up on uneven ground, it has to be pretty bad before the dob will have any problems.

You've not seen my 'lawn' then ! More like a tiny patch of rough grazing than a bowling green.

I have to take bits of plywood out to level my 250mm dob, which has a very smooth az movement due to it having an after market lazy susan type bearing which has the tube spookily slewing on its own if it's not dead level. I actually use a big spring clamp on the base to hold it in place sometimes.

[Astronomist]

1 minute ago, Tiny Clanger said:

which has a very smooth az movement due to it having an after market lazy susan type bearing

Ah I guess that would be a problem, come to think of it I'm sure GSO dobs have a lazy susan as standard. I'm used to the more common teflon based dob bearings, which I have occasionally used on a ~20^o incline without too much problem.

[dom088]

Awesome!  I'll look into the sky watcher 8"

 

Really appreciate the help and words! 

 

Would Saturn look like this?

Or just a blur with original equipment for the sky watcher 8" dob?

https://astrorover.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Photo-of-Saturn-using-Dobsonian-Telescope-photo-credit-Chris-Isherwood.jpg

[Elp]

Maybe, I saw similar through my 60mm refractor and a 2x barlow lens but didn't make out the division in the ring, it was a literal 2mm dot and ring, but sharp as anything, and unlike anything else in the sky.

[vlaiv]

14 minutes ago, dom088 said:

Would Saturn look like this?

Or just a blur with original equipment for the sky watcher 8" dob?

https://astrorover.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Photo-of-Saturn-using-Dobsonian-Telescope-photo-credit-Chris-Isherwood.jpg

It will be more like this:

[dom088]

If that's the case... Sold!

Thanks alot guys. Very excited 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

11 minutes ago, dom088 said:

If that's the case... Sold!

Thanks alot guys. Very excited 

Just remember that all new telescopes are cloud magnets.

[Mr Spock]

4 hours ago, dom088 said:

If that's the case... Sold!

Thanks alot guys. Very excited 

Enjoy your new scope 👍

[GasGiant]

I can only echo what others have said about the DOB.  I bought a 10 and it's been fantastic. Im currently hankering for a bigger one.

 

If you're going to get an 8",  do yourself a favour and get a 10 or 12 instead  🤣

 

I have a dedicated spot for mine with a home built dob shed which the scope rolls out of down a 'runway'  It's so easy, I'm up and running in 30 seconds.  So if you can, a permanent spot will potentially cut down a lot of the dob agro. As others have said, they are big and bulky and many are for sale used because they can potentially be a handful.  Sounds like you may be able to build a dob shed?  You will loves it, and so will your nippers. 

[dom088]

It will be for our cabin... It's small but I believe I have a corner for it that it will be stored in. 

I'm just debating internally right now to see if it's too big and will be a pain.  It would be brought out to our roof covered patio for the nights. 

[Elp]

If any sort of carrying is involved especially amongst steps be wary of large scopes. Weight is easy to manage if it's near your body or trunk, not so much if your hands or arms need to stretch away from your body, even worse if narrow doorways are an obstacle. Larger the scope larger the problem, less likely to use it.

You can always carry out in pieces but that's no fun compared to one you can simply carry out with one hand in one go.

Edited September 11 by Elp

[dom088]

Yeah this is where I was thinking about a refractor scope. 

But it doesn't seem like that will do what I want to see . 

Planet/moon gazing is all I want to see. Saturn's rings/ Jupiter/ mars/ moon is all I really care about at this time.

[Elp]

I've done all that with a 60mm refractor, you won't see much on Saturn's rings though. A 100mm refractor will fare better but then you need a decent sturdy tripod and a mount, both of these you'd need to spend maybe 500 total to get a decent stability, then the price of the scope. It's why reflectors get recommended a lot, large aperture, more attainable, they also offer crisp and bright views once collimated (another advantage of refractor, literally works out the box and little to no maintenance if it isn't a duff scope).

If all you want to see is solar system a SCT or Mak maybe better, but note, I find my C6 SCT frustrating to use for simply sweeping the skies or even centering targets due to the long focal length and narrow FOV, shorter FL is better for this.

Edited September 11 by Elp