MEADE UK

[Jim Franklin]

Morning all, I need some bits and pieces for my Meade stuff and in my online search I came across the Meade UK website and they are still taking orders. I have emailed and asked what their position is, I am assuming that what they are advertising is UK stock, but they do have some amazing deals on - again, assuming stock clearance, so it is worth taking a look. Hell, it may be worth FLO looking at this and seeing if they can buy up the stock!!

If I get a response to my email I will post here. 

https://www.meadeuk.com/

[Jim Franklin]

I have had a reply from Opticstar. 

"Dear James Franklin,

 Thank you for your enquiry.

 Opticstar Ltd that hosts and services the meadeuk.com website is a different legal entity and not affiliated to any Meade Instruments US company e.g., Orion Telescopes& binoculars. In the past Opticstar Ltd was the Meade Instruments official importer in the UK.

 All items that appear as being in stock on our website are in stock. Spare parts come with 6 months UK warranty where telescopes and accessories come with 12 months UK Warranty. We typically ship within one to two working days.

 Regarding Meade Instruments (US) there may be un update round the end of the year but, I am only guessing.

 Kind regards,

Peter Karboulonis

Opticstar Ltd

 

www.opticstar.com

www.MeadeUK.com "

So that means that if you order from the Meade UK site, you will get what you pay for. Good to know - interesting comment about Meade Instruments (US)

[TiffsAndAstro]

Er what is this 12 month UK warranty they mention?

Legally it's a minimum of two years and likely 6, possibly up to 10....depending

Are they really in the UK?

[Alan White]

Opticstar are in the UK and highly reputable, I have dealt with Peter in the past and he has been highly helpful.

 

[Jim Franklin]

2 hours ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

Er what is this 12 month UK warranty they mention?

Legally it's a minimum of two years and likely 6, possibly up to 10....depending

Are they really in the UK?

The Law only requires manufacturers and suppliers of Goods warranty their products for 12 months as a minimum, 6 months for second hand parts in some cases, but this can be as low as 1 month or "sold as seen". The guidelines from trade organisations will sometimes advise or reuire longer product warranties, but these are generally only supplied by the OEM and not a third party company, unless they have a contract in place with the oEM to provide extended warranties - this is why, with some goods, we have to pay for extended warranties. 

[Tiny Clanger]

"Under the Consumer Rights Act you now have the right to reject something faulty within 30 days of buying it - and in most cases get a full refund. (This is called your 'short-term right to reject'.)

This right applies to all goods unless they are likely to perish within 30 days, when the time limit becomes the date the item is expected to perish, for example the use-by date for food.

If you act within this time, and you send the goods back if asked by the trader, you’re entitled to a full refund. The refund needs to be paid without any delays and within 14 days at the most. After 30 days have elapsed though, you lose the right to reject the goods and you'll have fewer rights."

"Over six months, and it's more important for you to prove the good or service was faulty when you bought it. Yet there's another piece of legislation called the Limitation Act (it's the Prescription and Limitation Act in Scotland) that can help you out.

This says you have up to six years to complain after you bought a good"

Quoted from https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/how-to-complain/

[Second Time Around]

This was part of my remit as a business consultant. I retired before the Consumer Rights Act 2015 but have kept up to date.

Unless I've missed something, there's still no legal requirement for a guarantee to be offered.  It is however common for many products to be guaranteed for 1 year.  Such a guarantee is in addition to your statutory rights.

Under the above act, if an item proves faulty in the first 6 months it's almost always assumed that the fault was present when bought.  It's up to the retailer to prove otherwise.

Another useful site to add to Heather's excellent link is at https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl

 

Edited September 10 by Second Time Around

[globular]

Isn't the guarantee / warrantee talk all a bit moot? I'm sure Opticstar will do their best to look after their Meade customers, but all but very minor issues usually need to be returned to the manufacturer by the retailer - and it seems very unlikely there will be anywhere to send them given the demise of Meade/Orion.

When it comes to guarantees or warrantees, buying new Meade stuff now is more akin to buying used.  Clearly faults on delivery will be refunded (so that's better than the used market), but any problems further down the line will be harder to resolve. 

In my opinion the discounts Opticstar are now offering should be compared to very good condition used prices when you're deciding if it a bargain or not. Not what the full retail price was before Meade's collapse.
Some of them do stand up to this comparison - but only just.  No free lunch.

[Jim Franklin]

14 minutes ago, globular said:

Isn't the guarantee / warrantee talk all a bit moot? I'm sure Opticstar will do their best to look after their Meade customers, but all but very minor issues usually need to be returned to the manufacturer by the retailer - and it seems very unlikely there will be anywhere to send them given the demise of Meade/Orion.

When it comes to guarantees or warrantees, buying new Meade stuff now is more akin to buying used.  Clearly faults on delivery will be refunded (so that's better than the used market), but any problems further down the line will be harder to resolve. 

In my opinion the discounts Opticstar are now offering should be compared to very good condition used prices when you're deciding if it a bargain or not. Not what the full retail price was before Meade's collapse.
Some of them do stand up to this comparison - but only just.  No free lunch.

Absolutely agree 100% on the Meade and Opticstar comments. The discounts available make them interesting prospects for people looking for good kit at a reasonable price - I have ordered some bits this afternoon that had a complete list price of £723, but due to the discounts - £395.34 including delivery - I am not going to be complaining about that. 

[Shimrod]

2 hours ago, Jim Franklin said:

Absolutely agree 100% on the Meade and Opticstar comments. The discounts available make them interesting prospects for people looking for good kit at a reasonable price - I have ordered some bits this afternoon that had a complete list price of £723, but due to the discounts - £395.34 including delivery - I am not going to be complaining about that. 

Handy that they have the spare parts on offer as well - might be worth picking something up as they might be hard to get hold of in a few years time when needed!

[Tiny Clanger]

2 hours ago, globular said:

Isn't the guarantee / warrantee talk all a bit moot? I'm sure Opticstar will do their best to look after their Meade customers, but all but very minor issues usually need to be returned to the manufacturer by the retailer - and it seems very unlikely there will be anywhere to send them given the demise of Meade/Orion.

No, because when you buy something you are entering a contract with the retailer. More from that same website I quoted above:

"Your contract is with the retailer or service provider, not the product manufacturer, so it is its responsibility to sort it out, providing that the product is breaking your statutory rights. So don't let the retailer fob you off, for example, by saying you must use the guarantee first to send a duff DVD player back to the manufacturer."

[Jim Franklin]

38 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

No, because when you buy something you are entering a contract with the retailer. More from that same website I quoted above:

"Your contract is with the retailer or service provider, not the product manufacturer, so it is its responsibility to sort it out, providing that the product is breaking your statutory rights. So don't let the retailer fob you off, for example, by saying you must use the guarantee first to send a duff DVD player back to the manufacturer."

The problem with that is if the manufacturer is no longer trading, this limits the liability and exposure of the retailer unless you can demonstrate they were unreasonable or otherwise failed to make you aware the warranty may not be honoured by the  manufacturer - as stated already - this is why they are offering Meade products at vastly reduced prices---

[Tiny Clanger]

The term warranty refers to extended guarantees a consumer might deliberately buy to extend the guarantee, it's often offered by a third party insurance company. I'm not aware that warranties are offered on astro kit, I don't ever recall having a company try to sell me one.

The customary one year manufacturer's guarantee is in reality covered by the retailer's obligation under the law. US manufacturers guarantees are usually limited to purchasers in the USA only, if they export to other countries they devolve responsibility to the vendor (looking at you, Maxpedition and your lifetime guarantee that's not !)

Your legal rights as laid out in the Consumer Rights Act of 2015 are against the retailer not the manufacturer.  Any attempt by the retailer to claim a reduction in their liability because a manufacturer went out of business would be in contravention the 2015 act and should be reported to the Competition and Markets Authority. That's the law, and in my experience quoting the 2015 consumer rights act to a retailer who is trying to swerve their responsibility works 100% of the time.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/when-can-i-use-a-manufacturer-s-warranty-or-guarantee-apyZm8F75DFU

http://tradingstandardsblog.co.uk/who-is-liable-for-faulty-goods-the-retailer-or-manufacturer

 

[Jim Franklin]

16 hours ago, Shimrod said:

Handy that they have the spare parts on offer as well - might be worth picking something up as they might be hard to get hold of in a few years time when needed!

That was my thought process  - and Ironically, the one thing I really wanted, they do not hold stock of and cannot obtain...

[Jim Franklin]

1 hour ago, Tiny Clanger said:

The term warranty refers to extended guarantees a consumer might deliberately buy to extend the guarantee, it's often offered by a third party insurance company. I'm not aware that warranties are offered on astro kit, I don't ever recall having a company try to sell me one.

The customary one year manufacturer's guarantee is in reality covered by the retailer's obligation under the law. US manufacturers guarantees are usually limited to purchasers in the USA only, if they export to other countries they devolve responsibility to the vendor (looking at you, Maxpedition and your lifetime guarantee that's not !)

Your legal rights as laid out in the Consumer Rights Act of 2015 are against the retailer not the manufacturer.  Any attempt by the retailer to claim a reduction in their liability because a manufacturer went out of business would be in contravention the 2015 act and should be reported to the Competition and Markets Authority. That's the law, and in my experience quoting the 2015 consumer rights act to a retailer who is trying to swerve their responsibility works 100% of the time.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/when-can-i-use-a-manufacturer-s-warranty-or-guarantee-apyZm8F75DFU

http://tradingstandardsblog.co.uk/who-is-liable-for-faulty-goods-the-retailer-or-manufacturer

 

The CRA 2015. Part 1. Ch.2 Sec.23 (3) states
(3) The consumer cannot require the trader to repair or replace the goods if that remedy (the repair or replacement) - 
(a) is impossible, or
(b) is disproprtionate compared to the other of those remedies.
(4) Then explains what would be considered disproportionate. 

Now, if the trader requires parts or equipment from the original equipment manufacturer and that manufacturer has ceased trading since the original contract of sale (CRA 2015. Part 1. CH2. s5) was entered into, then that would be covered under CRA 2015. Part 1. Ch.2 Sec.23 (3)(a). 

Now, if people buy Meade products they will be covered only by a limited warranty because, currently, Meade is no longer a trading company under US Law, that may change in the future if the company is purchased and begins trading again, however, whilst there may be parts that fail, any trader may be able to replace with third party goods that are compatible, there will be parts that could fail that will be unique to Meade, such as motor control boards, handsets etc, thus, such a repair would again fall under CRA 2015. Part 1. Ch.2 Sec.23 (3)(a). You have to remember, there is applicable contract law that exists between the trader and the manufacturer, thus, whilst is is not impossible for a trader to engage a third party company to manufacture replacement parts not otherwise available, the cost of this would be prohibitive and thus be covered by CRA 2015. Part 1. Ch.2 Sec.23 (3)(b).

Considering how bad Meade Instruments Inc was at customer service, I would be very surprised if there was a lot of inventory available to feed the very limited spare parts market, spares for Meade has always been a bit hit&miss at the best of times, thus, whilst I am confident that a reatiler in this industry would do their best to support customers whose equipment faced issues, we have to all accept that their ability to honour a warranty will be very limited. I have ordered a replacement main board for my LX200, but if that fails in 6 months, it is very unlikely that I can claim a warranty repair or replacement - I would ask the question, but I won't hold my breath. 

The problem we all face is that this is not a huge market, even globally, thus there is little financial reward for a third party to enter the market by manufacturing spare parts for Meade equipment - it is simply not economically viable to do so. 

[CraigT82]

2 hours ago, Jim Franklin said:

The problem we all face is that this is not a huge market, even globally, thus there is little financial reward for a third party to enter the market by manufacturing spare parts for Meade equipment - it is simply not economically viable to do so

Sounds like a business opportunity there, invest in that £20k aluminium printer and set yourself up as an aftermarket Meade parts maker! I’m sure your wife will be delighted to support! 😂

[Jim Franklin]

15 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

Sounds like a business opportunity there, invest in that £20k aluminium printer and set yourself up as an aftermarket Meade parts maker! I’m sure your wife will be delighted to support! 😂

It is not economically viable - I have run  and sold several business in the last 40 years - I am semi retired at 57 because I want to enjoy the spoils of my hard working life - not start another company and end up working 24/7 again. 

[Mr Spock]

You all need to be reading and quoting CRA 2022 not 2015 

[Second Time Around]

1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

You all need to be reading and quoting CRA 2022 not 2015 

Isn't that Ireland?

[Mr Spock]

12 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

Isn't that Ireland?

Yes my error. I got confused with the amendments