82 Degree Price V Quality - Baader, Explore, and Skywatcher

[hal9550]

Hi all

i have a first purchase of Eyepieces due shortly. 

I decided i had to pull the trigger on an Explore Scientific 14, in order to see if i enjoyed using it, despite the tight ER - The rough plan is to test it - and then make a decision on whether to cover the rest of the focal length blocks with either ES82, or Morpheus. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006497124662.html?spm=a2g0o.home.0.0.650c76dbCHJsyI&mp=1

Above is a link to an eyepiece from Aliexpress - its one i have been looking at, as a 1.25 max out option. I do have a 2" focuser on my Schmidts, but i will shortly (i hope) have a 5" mak, which i do not believe to be 2" - 

Iv been comparing the 24mm ES68, which on paper, is probably the maximum 1.25" i have seen - 

Just wondering if anyone has used the above, or perhaps a 'brand sibling' - just so i can get an idea of whether its worth while. Im trying to save money at certain focal lengths to spend more at others, and this is an opportunity to do exactly that!

 

[Louis D]

Check a bit over on CN Eyepieces forum for reports on these 70° eyepieces.  I've seen some feedback on them over there, but not much.  They're the same as the Oberwerk 70° eyepieces.

Let's put it this way, I haven't seen a plethora of glowing reports on them pushing me to buy one or more of them to try out like I saw for the Svbony 3-8mm zoom and Founder Optics Marvel 20mm 80°.

[hal9550]

20 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Check a bit over on CN Eyepieces forum for reports on these 70° eyepieces.  I've seen some feedback on them over there, but not much.  They're the same as the Oberwerk 70° eyepieces.

Let's put it this way, I haven't seen a plethora of glowing reports on them pushing me to buy one or more of them to try out like I saw for the Svbony 3-8mm zoom and Founder Optics Marvel 20mm 80°.

Yea it was a me taking a chance that someone had pulled the trigger on it. And i agree RE feedback - while i havent seen any 'AVOID Warnings' - i also havent seen it praised at all

The other contender for that focal length is the 2" 22mm Omegon Redline (olivon 22, and various brand siblings) - Don on CN had much to say on it being very solid, for the price. And others have done reviews, and its very well rated- Alas its 2" so i lose some compatibility on the MAK

Swings, roundabouts, and Apparent Fields of view! Its all about optics i guess!

[John]

9 minutes ago, hal9550 said:

....Swings, roundabouts, and Apparent Fields of view! Its all about optics i guess!

At least with your long-ish focal length scopes, most eyepieces will be sharp pretty much right across the field of view.

 

 

Edited September 18 by John

[Louis D]

11 hours ago, hal9550 said:

Alas its 2" so i lose some compatibility on the MAK

Having a 28.6mm field stop, the 22mm Redlines work fine in 127mm Maks (27mm rear baffle diameter) with the SCT thread adapter and a 2" SCT visual back and 2" diagonal.

[hal9550]

On 19/09/2024 at 03:44, Louis D said:

Having a 28.6mm field stop, the 22mm Redlines work fine in 127mm Maks (27mm rear baffle diameter) with the SCT thread adapter and a 2" SCT visual back and 2" diagonal.

I have a 2" SCT adapter so, if thats the case, that would be fantastic¬! Obviously il check when i get it - and i might get a second 2" visual back adapter - the one i have is a cheap and cheerful SVBony 2", which can be screwed on securely, with ease - dont see any deficiencies in it, but open to advise if you have any?? 

im currently concentrating on the 82 degree project

I managed to pick up a nice 18mm Japanese Meade SWA 67 degree eyepiece - which i hope to have soon (still waiting on the ES82 14) - so im proceeding with caution. The temptation is always to just buy whole sets of eyepieces

I do want to get a look through a Morpheus, so i will possibly buy one this week. Looking at perhaps 12.5 or 9 - i think when i have both i will do a shoot out, and then ask the honest question as to which is better/comfortable to use - il include the 18 SWA Meade for comparison too - they seem to appear sporadically on second hand sites - and could be contenders

Then il proceed slowly and acquire the rest of the desired focal lengths. The plan is still either Morpheus, or ES82 - your intel on the field stop V 127 Maks, allows me to reconsider eyepieces in the 82 degree 2" format for the 18mm and above - in the back of my head, is the knowledge that the 18mm ES82 has the tightest eye relief, tighter than the other focal lengths - but doing the shoot out will still answer questions for me

I dont think there are any other contenders for me - i had options on getting a Luminous 15mm which i passed on - a good price second hand - but the reviews have varied between average, and poor - and i want to get this project right!

[Don Pensack]

Review that contains the 18mm SWA Meade S4000 eyepiece:

https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/user-reviews/eyepieces/eyepieces-14mm-55mm/comparison-of-seven-moderate-priced-16-20mm-eyepieces-r269

Note: actual apparent field is 63°

I think it is the best focal length in that series, and quite usable at f/ratios longer than f/10.  At f/10, there is astigmatism in the outer field, but not horrible.

At f/8 and shorter, though...

It is an older 6 element design--though made well by Kowa in Japan, it has some uncoated surfaces internally, so light transmission is a bit lower than more modern eyepieces.

But only by about 10% (0.1 magnitude), so not significant.

[hal9550]

18 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Review that contains the 18mm SWA Meade S4000 eyepiece:

https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/user-reviews/eyepieces/eyepieces-14mm-55mm/comparison-of-seven-moderate-priced-16-20mm-eyepieces-r269

Note: actual apparent field is 63°

I think it is the best focal length in that series, and quite usable at f/ratios longer than f/10.  At f/10, there is astigmatism in the outer field, but not horrible.

At f/8 and shorter, though...

It is an older 6 element design--though made well by Kowa in Japan, it has some uncoated surfaces internally, so light transmission is a bit lower than more modern eyepieces.

But only by about 10% (0.1 magnitude), so not significant.

Interesting - 

I guess i couldnt resist a Japanese piece like, especially when it wasnt overly expensive - around 50 euro is among the best price i could have gotten!

I suspect the 18mm will have company, in the form of either a Morpheus 17, or a Omegon Redline 17 - 

But yea i kinda collect the old Japanese where ever i can get them so - sounds like it will be useful, albeit not a perfect piece 

[hal9550]

my 18mm arrived and is effectively mint condition -

Iv collected a few Japanese Meade Series 4000s - the regular symmetrical 4 element plossls, 2nd Generation, and last made in JAPAN - and this 18mm SWA is certainly the mint-iest i have received, including its original packaging!

 

Very Happy with it - il see how it performs - i may still end up with a Morpheus at the 17mm adjacent focal length but, its always nice to have more golden oldies!

On 21/09/2024 at 15:18, Don Pensack said:

Review that contains the 18mm SWA Meade S4000 eyepiece:

https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/user-reviews/eyepieces/eyepieces-14mm-55mm/comparison-of-seven-moderate-priced-16-20mm-eyepieces-r269

Note: actual apparent field is 63°

I think it is the best focal length in that series, and quite usable at f/ratios longer than f/10.  At f/10, there is astigmatism in the outer field, but not horrible.

At f/8 and shorter, though...

It is an older 6 element design--though made well by Kowa in Japan, it has some uncoated surfaces internally, so light transmission is a bit lower than more modern eyepieces.

But only by about 10% (0.1 magnitude), so not significant.

I can see that it doesnt get as much love in a review - although i wouldnt say its terrible by any stretch! I will give it a shot, and will keep it regardless - I wouldnt pay huge amounts of money for these, but if they can be obtained at reasonable prices, it would be hard to say no- Its probably a touch of Mission creep, but i see less and less opportunities to get Japanese Eyepieces at sane prices in Europe. If there are any i should specifically look out for, id love to know your thoughts - this is just long term plans, i wont hunt anything out for now.

I have my 30mm Ultima, and the aforementioned Meade Japanese, -  

[Don Pensack]

The Meade Series 4000 Super Plössls made in Japan with 5 elements, smooth sides, and no rubber eyecups (from Kowa), are worth collecting.

There is also a Meade Series 3000 Plössl, MIJ, no rubber eyecup, green lettering.

As are the Celestron Ultima smooth side, no rubber eyecup, MIJ 5 element Super Plössls (from Ohi Optics).

Other Japanese eyepieces that might be found used:

--original Tele Vue Plössls, smooth side, no rubber eyecups

--Tele Vue Radian

--Tele Vue Nagler Type 6

--University Optics König and König-II (for f/8 and longer)

--Masuyama 5-element, no rubber eyecup, 45-50° eyepieces (older ones with tapered tops)

--Orion Ultrascopic, Baader Eudiascopic, Tuthill Plössl, Parks Gold Series Plössl, Omcon Plössl, Kasai Astroplan, Antares Elite--all the same as the Celestron Ultimas

--Takahashi LE

 

 

[hal9550]

18 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

The Meade Series 4000 Super Plössls made in Japan with 5 elements, smooth sides, and no rubber eyecups (from Kowa), are worth collecting.

There is also a Meade Series 3000 Plössl, MIJ, no rubber eyecup, green lettering.

As are the Celestron Ultima smooth side, no rubber eyecup, MIJ 5 element Super Plössls (from Ohi Optics).

Other Japanese eyepieces that might be found used:

--original Tele Vue Plössls, smooth side, no rubber eyecups

--Tele Vue Radian

--Tele Vue Nagler Type 6

--University Optics König and König-II (for f/8 and longer)

--Masuyama 5-element, no rubber eyecup, 45-50° eyepieces (older ones with tapered tops)

--Orion Ultrascopic, Baader Eudiascopic, Tuthill Plössl, Parks Gold Series Plössl, Omcon Plössl, Kasai Astroplan, Antares Elite--all the same as the Celestron Ultimas

--Takahashi LE

 

 

I have been collecting the Meade Series 4000 Japanese Eyepieces, but they are not the smooth sides. I think they are the second generation. It was my intention to complete this set.

The smooth sides tend to be vastly more expensive - but the regular Symmetrical four elements can be had at reasonable prices

Would you say its not a worthwhile pursuit to finish the set? Im missing 2 focal lengths at this stage (40 and 20) - my understanding was that these are decent plossl's when compared to the modern chinese made ones

I have 2 Ultimas (one is antares elite) - i would buy more but they would break the bank in europe

[Don Pensack]

The MIJ Series 4000 Meade Super Plössls, whether 4 or 5 element, are Kowa-manufactured and have excellent lens polish.

Unfortunately, the interior surfaces were uncoated, so light transmission can be as much as 7% lower than the highest transmission today for the equivalent eyepieces.

But sharpness was excellent.

Unless maximum light transmission is the issue, collecting the older ones does give you a set of superb eyepieces.

You don't really need the tunnel-narrow 40mm or the 2" 56mm, but you should try to find the 20mm.