SynScan Pro - new plate solving feature

[happy-kat]

So did I, but there is no active camera selection on the android app when tested on my phone. It's interesting their sample camera has a processed image of M42 as that isn't going to be what will really be seen from one short image capture.

[PeterC65]

You could try contacting the SynScan support team (app@skywatchertelescope.net). They were quick to reply and helpful when I did this. You could also ask about the pink tint that seems to appear with ZWO cameras.

 

[happy-kat]

I sent a couple days ago an email about the ZWO pink issue to that email, not had a reply yet

[LondonNeil]

On 21/08/2024 at 09:14, PeterC65 said:

I emailed Sky-Watcher about this new feature and sure enough, it is an alternative to Celestron StarSense. When you use the SynScan app on a smartphone it uses the phones camera so that you can use it to align the mount when doing visual. Here is what Sky-Watcher had to say ...

Please switch the SynScan Pro app's UI language to English and open the menu "Utilities\Help" to look for instructions on the SynMatrix AutoAlign functions.

The SynMatrix AutoAlign for Windows supports ASCOM cameras. You might need to download extra index files to the "fits" folder if the FOV of your telescope-camera system is small.

The SynMatrix AutoAlign on Android uses your phone's camera for aligning the telescope, it works for both Alt-Az mounts and equatorial mounts. It is for visual observation, limited by the resolution of the camera. You need to Find a bracket to mount your Android phone to the telescope, we will introduce our bracket soon, please contact a Skywatcher dealer for availability.
1. Let the camera and the telescope point in the same direction.
2. On the phone, choose the point that is at the center of the telescope's FOV.
3. Point the scope and phone to the sky.
4. Run the alignment with the points you want; generally, more points mean better all-sky  pointing accuracy.
5. The SynScan Pro will control the mount to do the alignment automatically.
You do need an Android phone with a decent camera to use the SynMatric AutoAlign function.
 

Sounds very interesting!  I await the bracket keenly 

[LondonNeil]

I just thought,  it will be interesting to see how this copes with light pollution.  That can trouble starsense. 

Still,  I may invest £3.62 and try. 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EQrs2PL

[LondonNeil]

Just had a play on my s21. I've got the latest and correct app version,  the SynMatrix AutoAlign is described in the help/manual,  but I don't seem to have/ can't find access to the camera.   I've not connected to the mount though,  just exploring the app.

[Gfamily]

13 minutes ago, LondonNeil said:

Just had a play on my s21. I've got the latest and correct app version,  the SynMatrix AutoAlign is described in the help/manual,  but I don't seem to have/ can't find access to the camera.   I've not connected to the mount though,  just exploring the app.

Currently, they're not offering version 2.5.2 for Android on their website download page. They're still on 2.4.31 as far as I can see. 

I assume the help/manual is relatively independent of the app version installed 

Maybe soon. 

Edited August 23 by Gfamily

[LondonNeil]

[LondonNeil]

Pro 2.5.2 I got from play store back in about april

[Gfamily]

4 minutes ago, LondonNeil said:

Pro 2.5.2 I got from play store back in about april

I guess then that the problems people are describing is the reason they're not currently offering it - since we know it's not working as intended. 

[LondonNeil]

True.  You'd think skywatcher would be shouting from the roof tops, 

'Hey,  you don't need to spend £300 with celestron,  we give it to you for free. '

[SteveNickolls]

Maybe see them announce things on here before too long, a new video released each Friday-

https://youtube.com/@skywatcherusa?si=U5KCN1HmwGcaX-7I

Cheers,

Steve

[LondonNeil]

Well fingers crossed they do complete and release it,  I'd consider it a super upgrade to my gtiX.

[happy-kat]

18 hours ago, happy-kat said:

I sent a couple days ago an email about the ZWO pink issue to that email, not had a reply yet

I did get a reply, I'm going to test and confirm it's not IR light tainted.

[PeterC65]

10 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

I did get a reply, I'm going to test and confirm it's not IR light tainted.

When I had my SynScan setup connected to my mount and camera in daylight a few days ago there was a check box at the bottom of the camera menu that talked about a red tint. Just the very top edge of the check box was visible as the bottom of the menu was cutting it off so I almost missed it. I think I must have maximised the application and then I could see it so that I could up check it. This may be what is causing the problem you are seeing.

 

[bosun21]

I couldn't find the tint check box anywhere. I maximised the camera menu to no avail. I wonder wether it's camera related as to wether it's shown or not. Can you see it @happy-kat?

[happy-kat]

I'll test tomorrow, plus I've got to find the UVIR filter 

[happy-kat]

7 hours ago, LondonNeil said:

Well fingers crossed they do complete and release it,  I'd consider it a super upgrade to my gtiX.

Whilst it does require a windows device plus a camera sharpcap sharpsolve does platesolve and sync very well I've found.

[LondonNeil]

If I had the time (unfortunately I don't with 3 young kids)  it could be fun to build a little raspberry pi to do it.  Pi w zero WiFi, camera,  connector,  case, sugar, comes to about £85.  Buy and install windows... away we go.

[PeterC65]

It's clear tonight so I'm having my first session of the season, and testing the new version of SynScan Pro. I've setup with the 72mm refractor to give a reasonably wide field of view so that plate solving will not be too hard.

I first got the camera running with SharpCap. Before doing that there was no camera available to select in SynScan Pro. Afterwards the camera was visible and I could select it and see the live view. Once in use by SynScan Pro however, the camera wasn't working properly in SharpCap (SharpCap was connected directly to the camera so things may have been better if both had been using the cameras ASCOM driver).

Once I could see the camera image, I pressed Test and SynScan Pro almost instantly did a plate solve and posted a message saying where the mount was pointing. When I pressed Resync it did the same again and resynced the mount (I assume - it was already quite well aligned) but without storing a Sync Sample.

I then did an auto align by pressing Run. It asked me how many points I wanted to use and I selected three. This time SynScan Pro did a plate solve at the current position and stored a Sync Sample, then (with me watching very carefully) it slewed the mount through 60 degrees to the right in azimuth and 15 degrees up in altitude and did another plate solve and Sync Sample. After that it slewed again through 60 degrees and 15 degrees and did another. Now there were three Sync Samples listed.

I started on some targets and the mount alignment was the best I've ever seen. I did a few plate solves in SharpCap to check and they were within 0.1 degrees. Each of these plate solves and resyncs, initiated by SharpCap were stored in the SynScan Pro Sync Sample list so that I now have an additional five. Three of the Sync Samples have numbers against them suggesting that these are the best three that are being used, but that's just my guess.

I am doing widefield where mount alignment isn't so critical, but its been so good this evening that I've stopped bothering doing plate solving in SharpCap. I'm very impressed so far!

I'm writing this while waiting for a dark nebula (B142 and B143) to stack frames but will then move on to a different part of the sky.

 

Edited August 24 by PeterC65

[PeterC65]

I've done some more testing of SynScan Pro in the daylight today and had some more thoughts about what I discovered using it last night.

The 'Red tint' checkbox is under 'Camera', 'Histogram Stretch'. I think it is set by default and I remember my camera image being red until I switched it off, so that may be the issue that ZWO camera user are seeing. You can only see its top edge in the dialog box but the dialog box can be scrolled down using the mouse wheel (or presumably by swiping on a tablet).

After reading the Help, it seems that the Re-Sync button may not carry out an alignment but I have asked Sky-Watcher to clarify.

The auto alignment process is carried out via the Run button. If you select three points then these are at the diagonal corners and centre of a rectangle which is 120 degrees of sky wide and 30 degrees high, with the start point at the bottom left. So probably you should start from the lower left edge of the area of sky you plan to observe. I've asked Sky-Watcher what the positions are in general for different numbers of points as it's good to know where your mount might slew to!

The Sync Samples list shows all of the alignment points from the auto alignment process and from subsequent plate solves and re-syncs. At most three of these points are used by the all sky pointing model, the rest being used only for local pointing accuracy enhancement (this is in the Help). The three main alignment points are indicated in the list by numbers, 1, 2, 3, against them.

There are other controls on the Sync Samples page for ‘Minimum align quality’ and to ‘Charge alignment stars’. These seem to change which three (sometimes two) alignment points are used. I've asked Sky-Watcher to let me know what they do as it's not obvious.

Overall I was very impressed with the mounts alignment last night and the auto alignment process was easy to use, much easier than trying to find alignment stars with a camera I would say. If you use the SynScan App on a smart phone or tablet to control your mount when doing visual (I use the hand controller) then I think this new feature would be a great advantage for visual too.

[happy-kat]

Thanks for sharing your findings. I've sent a reply to my email including the UI clip. I use stellarium to see what alignment stars to use using my custom landscape so it'll be interesting to find out what auto align does when it doesn't find many stars.

Edited August 26 by happy-kat

[PeterC65]

Some more information from Sky-Watcher ...

We use the red color for the preview image instead of the black/white color to keep users' night vision.

For every successful plate solving during the auto alignment process, a sync sample is store and visible in the Sync Sample list. It is the same for Sync data from external applications, including data from ASCOM clients.

For positions used for alignment, we use an internal algorithm to choose positions that are good for 2-points or 3-points alignment, and then choose the remained positions evenly in the sky. 

The first position is for a rough alignment, the SynScan App will decide whether to use the data to build the pointing model or just for PAE.

Yes, the 1,2 or 3 samples that have a number against them are used for building the basic pointing model, the others for for PAE.
 
"Minimum Align Quality" is used to choose samples for building a basic pointing model. A higher number means more strict criteria which might lead to less chance to obtain a combination of 3 samples for alignment.

"Change Alignment Stars" is used to choose another combination of 2 or 3 sample data for building the basic pointing model, if the SynScan App has collected a lot of sample data. There might be slight difference when different combinations of samples are used.

It sounds like the red tint should not affect plate solving and only affects what is displayed visually.

I've asked Sky-Watcher to say some more about what the algorithm does when selecting alignment points, so that at least we can know to where the mount might slew after we hit the go button.

Thinking about how the alignment process works explains why when I use SharpCap to do a plate solve and re-sync it only improves the local pointing accuracy. If the mount has previously been aligned then any additional plate solves and re-syncs will just add a PAE sample which will not affect the pointing model established by the original alignment. With this latest version of SynScan Pro it is now possible to select a new set of 2 or 3 alignment points from amongst the original ones plus any that have been added later.

 

[happy-kat]

I got all ready to try this tonight, charged the power and found my notes, and the clouds just got thicker! My clear patches of sky didn't have many targets but I found and noted 5 to try from looking in stellarium in preparation. Maybe later this week.

[Beyond Lumen]

I've been testing the SynScan Pro app for Windows and the SynScan app for Android. I've been going back and forth, reporting my findings to SkyWatcher. I've downloaded numerous FIT files for plate solving and successfully got it to work once, but it needs further testing. I'm using a ASI 533 MCPro and a Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra for the Android version. Additionally, the Windows version of SynScan Pro has a SharpCap script that aligns the telescope, and it works similarly. One benefit is that it allows the use of different plate solvers. In my case, I'm using PlateSolve 3. Please take note: The current version of the app is unavailable on the Google Play Store in Europe due to ongoing issues. However, you can download the new version by visiting https://skywatcher.com/download/software/, scrolling down the page, clicking on "PRO version for Android," and following the prompts. After that, SynMatrix should be available on your phone.

Edited August 27 by Cornelius Varley
background colour to text removed