SynScan Pro - new plate solving feature

[PeterC65]

There has been a recent new release of the SynScan App (SynScan Pro in Windows parlance), v2.5.2, available here. This new version includes a plate solving feature which seems to allow a camera to be connected so that it's captured image can be plate solved and this used to align the mount instead of the usual star alignment method. If this works it would be really handy and an alternative to Celestron StarSense which is I assume why Sky-Watcher have added it. It could even be used for visual astronomy with a basic camera fitted to the finderscope.

At the moment I can find no information about this new feature so I've just been playing with it in the app in daylight. So far I've discovered that you need to have installed the ASCOM driver for the camera you are using and then you can see captured frames from the camera in the app and run the plate solver (which fails because it's in daylight). Also, the app doesn't seem to play nicely with SharpCap so you can only use the camera with one or the other.

Has anyone used this feature in anger yet, and if so, can they shed light on how it works?

I'll post some more on here when I've had a chance to try out SynScan plate solving alignment at night.

Thanks to @bosun21 who made me aware of the new version of the app and who is also giving it a go.

 

[TiffsAndAstro]

Update to synscan would be great, but ill let you test it first

if you want an easyway to platesolve/3ppa that's already working, just plug the mount and camera into nina  

[PeterC65]

I have tested v2.5.2 with my AZ-EQ5 mount and that all works fine, as does control of SynScan Pro from both SharpCap and Stellarium at the same time. So all the stuff that was working in v2.4.8 which is the previous version I used.

I already have plate solving working with SharpCap and that can be used to tweak the mount alignment but it seems to needs the mount to be aligned first. What this new version of SynScan seems to be offering is a way to align the mount from scratch just using plate solving.

 

[happy-kat]

To get around aligning first I use align using 1 star as that slews to where the mount thinks the star is automatically and accept that, then I use sharpsolve, I can do that while sat inside with the mount outside. I'll see what this new function gives over that.

Edited August 19 by happy-kat

[PeterC65]

I've occasionally tried using SharpCap plate solving to realign the mount when it is well out of alignment but it doesn't seem to work for me. The plate solving only seems to fine tune an already reasonably well aligned mount. When I say reasonably well aligned I mean that I park the mount in its home position after a session and restart from there, having taken the mount indoors and then outdoors again between sessions, but replacing the tripod legs in holes drilled in the patio. If I do this I don't need to realign for several sessions.

 

[happy-kat]

I'm starting from scratch each time, but I have downloaded the additional star map data for .5 degree view for sharpcap

[PeterC65]

Some further investigation has revealed that there is a SharpCap script included in the SynScan Pro download folder that uses SharpCap's camera control and plate solving to align your mount from scratch. Now that would be useful if it works. It looks like my next session (first of the season) may be spent checking out these new mount alignment methods.

There are also some help files hidden in the SynScan Pro download folder which say something about the new alignment feature. It seems that the plate solving adds alignment sync points to the pointing model stores in SynScan Pro. You can add these when you do a PAE and the more there are across the sky the better the alignment. As I understand it the new alignment feature can slew the mount to up to 50 positions across the sky and plate solve to create a new sync point at each of them. It seems to start wherever the scope happens to be pointing. This all needs to be verified in practice mind you.

 

[bosun21]

Has anyone managed to get their ZWO camera displaying correctly? All I get is a fluctuating pink screen. Regardless of the exposure and gain settings it remains pink. The camera is brand new (585MC) and is working great with Sharpcap and Firecapture. I'm hoping it's just a teething problem with the app update.

[happy-kat]

The sharpcap alignment scripts have been in the pro version a while in the script folders (no app interface), they're in my 2418 version but I haven't get to try them yet, and as I don't have a huge sky I hadn't rushed to try.

The ASI290MC is also pink for me too and the bayer is showing correct, though the bog standard webcam is correct colours. Maybe the pink wont effect alignment

Edited August 20 by happy-kat

[bosun21]

1 minute ago, happy-kat said:

The sharpcap alignment scripts have been in the pro version a while in the script folders (no app interface), they're in my 2418 version but I haven't get to try them yet, and as I don't have a huge sky I hadn't rushed to try.

The ASI290MC is also pink for me too and the bayer is showing correct, though the bog standard webcam is correct colours. Maybe the pink wont effect alignment

I think it's that the app has a bug with ZWO cameras. @PeterC65 has his Player One 585 displaying correctly. It's definitely not okay displaying pink.  I think that this bug will be addressed quickly (famous last words) due to the sheer number of ZWO users out there.

[PeterC65]

I emailed Sky-Watcher about this new feature and sure enough, it is an alternative to Celestron StarSense. When you use the SynScan app on a smartphone it uses the phones camera so that you can use it to align the mount when doing visual. Here is what Sky-Watcher had to say ...

Please switch the SynScan Pro app's UI language to English and open the menu "Utilities\Help" to look for instructions on the SynMatrix AutoAlign functions.

The SynMatrix AutoAlign for Windows supports ASCOM cameras. You might need to download extra index files to the "fits" folder if the FOV of your telescope-camera system is small.

The SynMatrix AutoAlign on Android uses your phone's camera for aligning the telescope, it works for both Alt-Az mounts and equatorial mounts. It is for visual observation, limited by the resolution of the camera. You need to Find a bracket to mount your Android phone to the telescope, we will introduce our bracket soon, please contact a Skywatcher dealer for availability.
1. Let the camera and the telescope point in the same direction.
2. On the phone, choose the point that is at the center of the telescope's FOV.
3. Point the scope and phone to the sky.
4. Run the alignment with the points you want; generally, more points mean better all-sky  pointing accuracy.
5. The SynScan Pro will control the mount to do the alignment automatically.
You do need an Android phone with a decent camera to use the SynMatric AutoAlign function.
 

[bosun21]

I have now reverted back to the latest release without the plate solving. As it's primarily for the use of a phone which I have no intention of using. Once they rectify the problem with displaying ZWO camera I may revisit it again.

[happy-kat]

I'd assumed ultimately I'd use the guide camera for it as I won't bother trying a phone as I wouldn't leave that unattended. Time and use I'll see what works for me it's great though to see such a big update

[Ratlet]

Be very keen to see how it works on Android.  Do you need to be paired with a mount to get the platesolving to work?  Can't seem to see it on mine under alignment and I've got the latest version

[Gfamily]

8 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Be very keen to see how it works on Android.  Do you need to be paired with a mount to get the platesolving to work?  Can't seem to see it on mine under alignment and I've got the latest version

Did you get the latest version from Google Play or direct from the Skywatcher download page?

I think the new features are only in the latter version 

Edited August 22 by Gfamily

[PeterC65]

11 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Be very keen to see how it works on Android.  Do you need to be paired with a mount to get the platesolving to work?  Can't seem to see it on mine under alignment and I've got the latest version

The plate solving feature seems to need to control the mount, so yes, it needs to be paired (in control of the mount, probably via WiFi in the case of a tablet or smart phone).

With the SynScan app connected to the mount and to, say, a camera fitted to the finderscope, it should now be possible to use this new feature to align the mount from scratch then use the GOTO functions already in the SynScan app to find targets. Alternatively the smart phones own camera could be used instead of a finderscope and camera.

It seems likely that the plate solving feature as standard is set for a wide field of view if its intended use is the smart phone camera, but it is possible to download index files for much narrower fields of view as it uses a third party plate solver available on the internet.

The version I have with plate solving is v2.5.2 downloaded from the Sky-Watcher website (the link is at the start of this post).

 

Edited August 22 by PeterC65

[happy-kat]

I've got the version updated through my android mobile and it's got the new synmatrix auroalign feature as well, only the pro version

[Ratlet]

Yeah, you just need to connect to a mount.

Hmm.

They're pretty close to having a functional alternative to Starsense explorer there, obviously with a goto system.  I wonder if you can use the integration with skysafari to get it to work with push to?  You'd still need a mount or something that can convince the synscan app it it a mount.

[PeterC65]

11 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

Yeah, you just need to connect to a mount.

Hmm.

They're pretty close to having a functional alternative to Starsense explorer there, obviously with a goto system.  I wonder if you can use the integration with skysafari to get it to work with push to?  You'd still need a mount or something that can convince the synscan app it it a mount.

I only use SynScan Pro on a laptop, with Stellarium. With that integration Stellarium controls the mount position via SynScan Pro, and can read the mounts current position from it. So Stellarium is using the pointing model in SynScan Pro. I assume that the situation with SkySafari is similar.

It might be possible to do this without a mount by setting SynScan Pro to mount emulation mode.

 

[happy-kat]

Skysafari pro or plus already connects with the mount and can be used at the same time as synscan. The synsçan emulation mode is great

 

Interesting in emulator connection in synmatrix autoalign the android phone can't see the mobile camera, no camera displays and there is no list of camera options.

on windows in emulator connection in synmatrix autoalign the camera option lists my connected cameras correctly including two simulator camera options, camera v2 simulator is best

Edited August 22 by happy-kat

[happy-kat]

just sharing my android 14 mobile phone using the mobile synscan pro app and synmatrix autoalign neither the mobile camera or plugged  in ASI290MC are seen the app shows 'no camera' 

[bosun21]

How can a mobile phone show an astronomy camera which needs the designated ASCOM driver for it? It should show the phone camera though one would think.

[happy-kat]

agreed but just sharing the module app on my phone doesn't show the mobile's own camera which I understood it would do from the guidance of what the app is intended to do

[bosun21]

Yes I agree. There's bound to be teething problems that need to be overcome by Skywatcher. I'll continue to follow its progress with interest.

[PeterC65]

Using SynScan Pro on Windows 11, with it set to mount emulation mode, when I click on SynMatrix AutoAlign I initially get 'no camera' but can then select a camera from a drop down list. I get a choice of the various ASCOM camera drivers I have installed, a Camera V3 simulator, or the Integrated Webcam. The Camera V3 simulator pulls up a monochrome image of M42. The Integrated Webcam shows the live laptop camera image which I can pan and zoom using the mouse wheel and Ctrl key. I'd expect something similar on the Android version to select the phone camera.