Is technology killing off astronomy clubs?

[Nicola Fletcher]

I really love being a member of my local astronomy club. I enjoy the social aspect of astronomy, and meeting people with similar interests. My club does some great outreach and I find I really enjoy public events and showing people the night sky. Although SGL is brilliant, the in person aspect of hobbies including astronomy is really important to me. I’ve been a member of a few clubs as I’ve lived in different places and enjoyed all of them.

I haven’t been a member of my current club long enough to know if technology is doing it any harm, but judging by the good numbers at most of the events I’ve been to, I doubt it!

[skybadger]

I like the social aspect of this too but... visual observing seems to be dead - the club couldnt give away telescopes to new prospects. 

Messaging on whatsapp is the between meeting life blood, either arranging, alerting or announcing. 

 

[Bivanus]

There are two sides of this. On one hand , the chances of me talking to you in the UK , to other in USA and in general keeping up to date with this and that on a planetary scale would simply be impossible without the technology. On the other hand it proven impossible to meet and see the people from next to me  in Romania ( ok , not really next but 250km vs 2500km is ALMOST next 😁 ) I consider myself lucky as living in a seaside town means that at least from time to time some of them come to the beach , but star parties or clubs are about as abundant as hen's teeth.

[Xilman]

9 hours ago, Ags said:

As an autistic person, I much prefer moderated online communities to my few awkward attempts to join astro societies.

I think I may understand why to some extent because I am also autistic. However, I am also a founder member of what is now the Abingdon Astronomical Society and a current member of the Cambridge Astronomical Association.

I'm not good at social situations but I find listening and talking to geeks with similar interests to mine much easier than typical "cocktail party" conversations.

My advice, should you want it (and I provide it even if you don't, because it may help others), is to join the society and listen to what people have to say. No need to contribute for yourself until you know to whom it is worth speaking.

Both societies are thriving, by the way, and it is not all doom, gloom and shrinking membership.

 

Paul

[carastro]

We have a thriving Astro Society in Orpington Kent, almost 100 members and have at least 2/3s attend every meeting.  Admittedly the age bracket seems to be older, but we do have some younger members as well.  We welcome all types of astro interest, and have Observing groups, Imaging groups, an Outreach Group who take Astronomy to the public at schools and clubs, we have guest speakers at each meeting, with occasional opportunities for members to speak on a topic.  We organise trips, and Astronomy camps.  I am responsible for at least two of these sections.  We are also planning a telescope workshop in the near future.  

During the pandemic we moved onto Zoom, and still offer zoom to those unable to make the meeting for whatever reason so they can watch on line including some members who have moved out of the area but still maintained their membership.  

 

Edited August 19 by carastro

[IB20]

I’m starting to feel like I’d like to join an AS but with my current circumstances it would just be unfair on my wife and young children. There’s a strange dichotomy with me as well;  I’m not always a massive people person but I can be and it’s 50/50 if I’d just turn up and not say anything or turn up and we’d end up drinking anything alcoholic and you’d end up getting home after three days. 

[CheshireChris]

16 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

Same here. I find pubs, clubs and any other social gathering painful. Now I'm retired I can stay away from people completely 

I'm new to all this and have no experience of astronomy clubs/societies. Like a few others posting in this topic l find social situations difficult and engaging with people in such circumstances can, for me, be quite stressful unless it's with friends who l know and trust. It's highly unlikely that l will ever join a club. I don't use X or Facebook either - l use WhatsApp a bit to keep in touch with some ex-work colleagues. Even participating in forums such as this one can be difficult for me. l've even gone to the extreme of blocking social media on my home network; much to my partners annoyance as she does use Facebook. 

...and all that is my loss l think; l have no doubt that clubs can be of great benefit.

Chris

 

[Mr Spock]

Facebook is a toxic cess-pit. However, it keeps me in touch with people I know in other countries. It can be ok if you limit what you see.

I'm a bit wary of it's "People you may know" recommendations though. Here's a couple of mine...

Seriously? 

[ollypenrice]

I regard 'my' astronomical society as this one, SGL. It may be a bit less 'virtual' for me than for most because I get to meet some members through my astro gite. However, I don't regard myself as being 'distracted by technology' as I write this. I feel as if I'm talking to people I know and like. That's because I am talking to people I know and like.

However, I still like the idea of the local astrosoc and hope they will continue to prosper.

Olly

[LondonNeil]

As a newbie to astronomy I'd love to have a local club as it would provide a way to meet others locally with the same interest and,  hopefully,  more skilled and willing to pass some of their knowledge,  tips and experience on (to me).  On line forums such as this are fabulous but there's no substitute for hands on 'training' .  I don't know and what I don't know and I bet were I to join with a skilled local for a few hours star gazing I would learn lots!  

After several months hunting for local clubs I've found  Croydon astronomy society.  The forum seems quiet but with two or three members chatting away so it's alive.   Hopefully I can manage to get to the observatory some time, and say hello.   Fingers crossed.   Reading about CAS history,  it has some very illustrious or past members!

[900SL]

Does the increase in Light Pollution/climate change have an impact on the hobby these days? Many city and town dwellers cannot even see the night sky.

[Stu]

20 minutes ago, 900SL said:

Does the increase in Light Pollution/climate change have an impact on the hobby these days? Many city and town dwellers cannot even see the night sky.

I think it does, a lot. I’m sure the change from lovely crisp, clear Autumn and Winter skies to the permacloud we seem to have has put a lot of people off, even keen astronomers.
 

Like many of us, I have a fairly hectic life and the chances of a clear night coinciding with me not being busy, away, or knackered seem to have reduced to virtually nothing! I used to attend CADAS, the Crewkerne group and it is a good group, well run by the Chair with monthly meets and talks. They do some outreach to schools which is well received, but too often clouded out. Actual observing as a group is fairly limited and the demographic is on the older side, but I’ve only stopped for now really as I go to a couple of car meets each month and had to choose between them as they clashed.

The used kit market seems slow to me at the moment, which I imagine is a combination of the above and also the the fact many people are struggling for cash currently.

[John]

10 hours ago, 900SL said:

Does the increase in Light Pollution/climate change have an impact on the hobby these days? Many city and town dwellers cannot even see the night sky.

For my astro society, Bristol AS, this is certainly the case. We have a membership of 100+ currently but the majority don't do much practical astronomy as far as I know because they live in or around a major city. We do have an observatory site about 10 miles outside the city, equipped with a number of scopes plus room to take your own equipment along and the skies there are similar to mine at home, also 10+ miles from Bristol. We seem to have to work quite hard to get more than a small number of members to use the observatory site though. 

We have seen an influx of younger members over the past 3-4 years, which is encouraging. We have run a couple of introductory courses for young people on astronomy during that period which I think has generated many of these new members. That takes a lot of time and effort to organise though.

We have a mixture of zoom and in-person meetings fortnightly with a good mix of internal and external speakers. We run outreach events at our observatory and also at other venues for solar observing. We also run "scope surgeries" a couple of times a year to help folks get started with equipment that they might own or be thinking of purchasing.

Getting back to the original question, I think the ability to meet virtually kept the society going during the pandemic and it continues to some extent today. I have not done a survey of Bristol AS members but I suspect that those who observe or image are probably aware of forums such as SGL an CN but may not be active users of them. For our society, technology has helped us keep going and we have embraced things like EEVA to keep moving forward.

Bristol AS is probably in a reasonably good place currently but we can't afford to become complacent and will need to keep looking outwards, as well as upwards, to keep our membership engaged and to attract a regular flow of new members.

 

Edited August 20 by John

[PeterStudz]

1 hour ago, 900SL said:

Does the increase in Light Pollution/climate change have an impact on the hobby these days? Many city and town dwellers cannot even see the night sky.

For DSO then certainly. For planetary it’s a bonus. In fact I’ll often observe planets like Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus, and Mars with my porch lights on low. As you are observing bright objects with subtle colour contrast you need your eyes adapted to light, not dark. This applies to lunar too. The only exception is Neptune, which appears tiny whatever you do. The only possible issue with an urban environment is rising heat from buildings which can create localised poor seeing. As long as it’s not too close to the sun then Venus can be observed in complete daylight. In fact I prefer it this way as it’s higher in the sky during daytime. Last year I had great fun with my daughter observing the phase change of Venus overtime. And all without the faff of it being dark  Then there’s solar. For me it’s white light solar but it’s been fabulous. Just observing the recent giant sunspots plus the recent associated aurora which could be seen visually, even from my Bortle 7 back garden, was stunning and a once or twice lifetime event. 

For DSO I can get to various Bortle 3 locations within a 20 to 40 minute drive. I’ve tried to scout-out a few places at night, just taking binoculars, but being on your own, in a rural setting, in complete darkness is a weird feeling. My daughter didn’t like it at all and felt very uncomfortable, so we didn’t stay long. But if other astronomers were there it would be fine. For me this is where a club would come in. Although, at the moment, I’m not a member of any club. When, several years ago, we started out with a telescope I read about  a couple of local clubs who would hold occasional meetings/gatherings at Bortle 3 sites not too far from me. Then there was COVID. However, since then I’ve heard no actual reports of these. Do they still take place? I should try and find out. 

Edited August 20 by PeterStudz

[iantaylor2uk]

Our local club holds monthly in person meetings (when COVID was on some meetings were held over zoom) with members or external speakers giving talks, and we usually get 40+ people attending. We have tried to hold observation nights but these have not been that successful, usually due to clouds! Although our membership is on the elderly side, there are also a few younger members, some of whom have borrowed telescopes from the club. Unfortunately we don't have our own observatory. Some members are happy just doing visual observing, whereas others do astrophotography, and others like tinkering about with modifying mounts, adding goto, or other miscellaneous projects. For those who aren't in a club I would definitely suggest trying it out. Most clubs let you attend two or three meetings for free to see if it's for you and if you like it you can then join.

[Cjg]

Think a combination of technology, cost of living (petrol to get to and from Seething Observatory) but primarily the weather. Each year on SGL we see posts stating ‘worst weather I can remember’ or similar. Perhaps for the casual observer there are too few clear nights coinciding with a club night?

[Paul M]

I made a phone enquiry to Fleetwood Astro Soc about 47 years ago, to ask what/where/when.

Still not made my mind up about joining...🤣

Actually, that is lonnnng since defunct.

I did turn out to Blackpool AS two or three times about 30 years ago. Not my scene at all. Things like that soon had a pint of sweat running down each armpit 🥵

Debilitating social anxiety has waned in middle age but now I have neither time nor inclination.

So SGL is my one and only astro hang out.

And perhaps I can be first in this thread to say I'd not join any club that would have me as a member...

[LondonNeil]

Cost and cloud are definitely big factors for me.  I've 3 kids between 8 and 4 plus work of course so it's a huge effort to get out to an AS meet.  I know it'll be useful to me but if I can't be sure I'll have clear weather I can't justify the time and expense. 

[Martyn87]

Honestly I mainly started this hobby to get a bit of time alone and and excuse to sit outside all night on my own! 

We do have a (very new) astronomy club locally, but it's still small and I don't really feel like I have much to add, especially as a complete novice. 

Besides, places like SGL are such fonts of knowledge, there's a much better chance of me finding any help I need here. I also wouldn't like to manage my imaging rig without my PC! 

[skyhog]

Always been a lone pursuit for me.  Its definitely my time to be on my own doing exactly what I want. I'm quite sociable generally but my astronomy is completely different. 

[PeterStudz]

My assumption for a modern club outdoor/observational/astrophotography meet would be that technology would be used in order to arrange something relatively last minute. That’s after looking at the weather. Eg via a WhatsApp group. 

Even I managed this for my daughter’s school and their Space Club, which is every Monday during term time… I looked at a forecast on Thursday, contacted the teacher via WhatsApp, took the telescope down for early Monday evening, observed Saturn, Jupiter and the moon with excited kids.

[westmarch]

46 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

My assumption for a modern club outdoor/observational/astrophotography meet would be that technology would be used in order to arrange something relatively last minute. That’s after looking at the weather. Eg via a WhatsApp group. 

Even I managed this for my daughter’s school and their Space Club, which is every Monday during term time… I looked at a forecast on Thursday, contacted the teacher via WhatsApp, took the telescope down for early Monday evening, observed Saturn, Jupiter and the moon with excited kids.

Like Peter, I used tech - sms texts - to alert our local group of promising conditions for an observing session.  This replaced the previous regime of regular sessions which were invariably disappointing. 
 

The only tech problem was the inevitable failure of various members’ goto  or imaging kit to work. Sorting that and the accompanying illumination often dominates the session. 

John

[CSM]

On 19/08/2024 at 15:49, Anne S said:

I'm a member of Swansea astronomy club even though it's a 100 mile round trip to attend. But we meet fortnightly most of the year and monthly in the Summer. I could do zoom but I don't think there's much point in belonging to a club if you can't talk to people. Zoom is more suited to official meetings where everyone speaks through the chair.

I'm sure there should be a club in Somerset. Maybe do an online search, there are also lists in astronomy magazines.

Anne

Hi Anne,

Yes - the people thing is good but if you have poor hearing then Zoom works much better.  Hope to 'see' you online tomorrow evening!

Colin

Ps Werndale cataract op last week good.

[Jim Franklin]

I started in astronomy/space as an 8 year old, so 49 years later it has been lifelong. Observing has been hit and miss - more common when I was in Canada for a spelll as I could drive up the mountains and get truly dark skies, I got into owning Land Rovers from 1984 (7 weeks after passing my test) because they allowed me to transport telescopes up mountains and into dark sky sites - I was precocious as a child - contacting observatories for information, exchanging ideas and making some friends - its how, as a 12 year old, I became a long time friend of Patrick Moore and Arthur C Clarke - I have plenty of letters from them - Pat encourgaed me to join the BAS and my local AS in Wanstead, where we lived at the time - they were active, encouraging and very helpful - no hubris or ego dictating how members behaved. 

I have joined ASs as I moved, and found that, increasingly, many members (certianly not all) are actually about making themselves look good with their knowledge and their "achievments" - that type of behaviour has always made me walk away - I'm not a people person at the best of times - once ego comes out, I'm gone. Even online communities suffer from this, I have been a member of online , mostly, Facebook groups and was a member of Cosmoquest forum (run by Yanks with myopic though processes) - these are also suffering from this issue. 

I do not post here very often - had the account for a while - but it is this concern about members attitudes - I am far from perfect, I have a warped and twisted humour, can be opinionated but I am nobodies fool, the minute I get spoken to as if I am - GONE - 

I know a few people who have dropped out of ASs for similar reasons - people seem to go to many to "look good" and be the "big I am", Of cource there are members who really want to help others and assist new members, but many of these are quiet decent people, not the loud vocal ones...it spoils it. At least online you are "walk away" so to speak. 

I have no desire to paint all the same, because that would be patently unfair, judgemental and untrue, but it is an increasing issue - I have seen this also happen in Land Rover Clubs and other similar clubs  - the younger generations (35 and below) will not tolerate this type of behaviour - and nor should they - further, I have noticed this generation also have an "instant gratification" mentality so that when reality meets expectation they are put off - the classic example is astro images - they seem to think that the 5" reflector they have, that they bought 2nd hand off Facebook, will give them images like they seem online and in what magazines still exist - not understanding they were taken by very expensive equipment, over multiple exposures with lots of hard work post processing and, quite often, with larger telescope than most own - they do not want to put in the effort it requires to truly get dramatic results. This is where AI can probably help - but you still have to imprison the photons to get an image. 

[Xilman]

On 20/08/2024 at 09:51, John said:

We also run "scope surgeries" a couple of times a year to help folks get started with equipment that they might own or be thinking of purchasing.

That is a good idea! I know of no other societies which do that and will raise the topic with the CAA when I meet them next.

Edited August 22 by Xilman
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