Is technology killing off astronomy clubs?

[Chaz2b]

I have discovered two clubs near me have dwindled into the ether, one citing no members could be found to take on the committee roles, the other I just can’t contact.

I have the feeling that social media with the likes of Facebook groups and possibly this site too have contributed to not needing to attend meetings anymore, we can ZOOM! If needed.

So has technology now replaced village halls and pubs? I dare say they have, but every now and then I have the urge to need to meet up, but have no one which to do so. Zoom? You can keep it, too old for that, get a speeding ticket and you’ll know!

So, being on here and following groups on Facebook is all I have, I also miss magazines as they are all basically gone digital, loved the smell of the mag too!

Perhaps some of you are lucky in having a club nearby that still prospers, it’s supposed to be a social hobby isn’t it?

This also means we are all to blame for clubs disappearing are we not?

Truthfully it’s been the elders haunt and now the younger are being distracted by technology so are not filling in the vacancies, how long before it’s all techno?

chaz

 

[PeterStudz]

Yes, there could well be some of that. I also think that the COVID lockdowns has hand an impact - it encouraged people online. Mind, I hate Facebook and never use it!

For me I “started” during COVID. The first thing I did was look for clubs. But obviously you couldn’t go, so I’ve got into the habit of being on my own/just observing with my daughter, plus using social media (basically this site). In fact the only astronomer I’ve meet in person was when on holiday. This is a great shame and your post has reminded me to look for and goto a local club. There’s nothing like physically looking at what others are doing in person, chatting, looking directly at their gear. 

Mind, all the techno stuff makes clubs easy to find and contact. Eg as a small boy, in the mid-1970’s, I was given a Prinz reflector for Christmas. I tried to find a local club, but after weeks of trying I failed. I’m sure that there was something and if only there was the internet it would have made it so much easier. Not finding a club, not having social media, was one main reason why I gave up and moved onto more social hobbies. 

Edited August 19 by PeterStudz

[Tony Acorn]

I believe it's called "social evolution" Chaz. As someone born in the first half of the last century, the things we were allowed to do when I was a child are unrecognisable or even banned today. We no longer speak the same language as our grandchildren with various words being repurposed and new ones invented. Our village has two pubs but the younger generation who one would expect to use them seems intent on not drinking alcohol "because it's bad for you!" so either one or both will not survive. This same younger generation injests (injects) more "recreational drugs" than I knew existed at their ages - but that doesn't do the same harm in their view.
The base-line cost of doing anything are rising exponentially - due to for example hall hire (which then involves the premises having this, that and the other facilities / capabilities etc.) invariably because some little self-opinionated jobsworth is justifying their little empire. Whilst I'm against persecution and exploitation, our society has changed so much that we now need be vetted (by yet more bureaucrats) before villagers like me can drive (even more) elderly people from our village to hospital / dentist's / doctor's appoinmtments (if you can get one of those 😂). Against such examples, fewer people are prepared to take the responsibility of running groups but still expect those groups to be available to them and their offspring.
The world we now inhabit isn't anything like it was last century so it is no surprise clubs are adapting to meet the realities of today. Sadly that means far fewer opportunities for personal contact and face to face conversations. 

[malc-c]

I was a co-founder of the Stevenage & District AS with the late Mike Glazier, which then went on to become the Letchworth and District AS following a relocation and a condition of the planning permission for the observatory we built in the grounds of Standalone Farm.  The society is still doing well some three decades later, although I do feel that the influx of younger people has dropped off.  I'm no longer an active member in the society, hanging up my committee position late 1990's, but I know some of the current committee frequent the SGL forum and could elaborate, but for the whole the membership had remained constant through out the past 30 years.  The success has been down to the hard work by a dedicated team of people who actively engage with the community, and often man events in town centres and with other groups like the WI to promote and demonstrate aspects astronomy and society related.   

[PeterStudz]

Pubs are an interesting one. I use it be a regular. Now, with beer costing around £5 per pint, sometimes £6, I find it hard to justify. Especially when I can get the same beer for £1.95 in the supermarket. Now I also brew my own too. As for kids not drinking. I have some friends with a teenage daughter. They have been complaining (justifiably so), that their daughter is buying alcohol at the supermarket and going a friend’s house or the local park to drink. the reason she gives is that “she can’t afford pub prices”. 

Edited August 19 by PeterStudz

[chrisecurtis]

People have been worrying about this for at least 50 years, but I suspect it has become harder than ever to encourage people to "join in" when they can find pursue their interests, find conversation with like minded people, and good, solid learning and information online.

it's partly about turning a vicious circle into a virtuous one. Common examples of clubs that are thriving seem to have:

• a diverse cross-section of ages, interests, backgrounds and personalities and it has to be a warm and safe space for all of them
• be genuinely welcoming, friendly and encouraging
• a clear purpose and one or more projects. I've been most inspired by clubs that run an active observatory, or are trying to build one, or who have some specific observing programmes or a planned and effective outreach programme. Apart from anything else, this gives all kinds of members a way to be active and to make a valuable contribution on their own terms and it sets an expectation that everyone joins in without it needing to be about duty or obligation
• fun

The "dedicated team of people" and how they communicate is core to all this, but they have to see their job as not about them and they have to welcome the changes that new people bring. That's why a purpose or project is so important. The club becomes about what it does, not about who are members.

There are lots of generous, supportive and helpful people in Amateur Astronomy, but sadly there are also those who think that their view and understanding is the only right one, who discourage and exclude, probably without even realising they are doing it. You don't need more than one or two of those, especially if they have been stalwarts of the club and help define what it is all about, to put you firmly into vicious circle mode: declining membership and engagement meaning that you can't do any of the things you know would make things better.

[Earl]

It's catching up with Gaming, why travel to play chess when you can do it from your armchair?

[NGC 1502]

My local club is Castle Point AC in southeast Essex.  It has certainly changed after Covid. As with every one else the pandemic forced us into meeting online. Since then our weekly meetings are held in person and online. The in person meetings have dropped in number but total club membership has risen to around 70.  That’s the most I’ve seen in 22 years of membership and my best guess is that’s an all time record since the club started in 1969.

Our recent dark site visit had 16 cars in attendance and some cars had 2 people on board. That’s probably a record too.  It means that my local club is doing very well, but in a different way, online has boosted our numbers. More members certainly helps with rising venue hire increases.

Whatever, CPAC is doing very well.  Our chairman and secretary put in a great deal of work on our behalf, so many thanks are due to them.

Cheers from Ed.

[Ags]

As an autistic person, I much prefer moderated online communities to my few awkward attempts to join astro societies.

[Zermelo]

1 hour ago, chrisecurtis said:

they have to see their job as not about them

Yes, I think the sort who try to impress others with how much they know, or what great kit they have, can be a real turn off for potential new members.

Conversely, the society I used to belong to had a committee member who made it his job to spot new faces, go and chat to them at the break, find out their experience and interests, make suggestions and explain any jargon that might have arisen in the presentations. He had a really warm and approachable manner, and did his best to encourage the new attendees to keep coming and join up. He knew far more than he let on to newbies, unlike some others. Sadly, he decided to switch his interests away from astronomy, and I think the society was the worse for it.

[Vroobel]

2 hours ago, chrisecurtis said:

... 

The "dedicated team of people" and how they communicate is core to all this, but they have to see their job as not about them and they have to welcome the changes that new people bring. That's why a purpose or project is so important. The club becomes about what it does, not about who are members.

There are lots of generous, supportive and helpful people in Amateur Astronomy, but sadly there are also those who think that their view and understanding is the only right one, who discourage and exclude, probably without even realising they are doing it. You don't need more than one or two of those, especially if they have been stalwarts of the club and help define what it is all about, to put you firmly into vicious circle mode: declining membership and engagement meaning that you can't do any of the things you know would make things better.

 

THANKS FOR THAT. 

 

Edited August 19 by Vroobel

[Chaz2b]

2 hours ago, Earl said:

It's catching up with Gaming, why travel to play chess when you can do it from your armchair?

I watch it online ( YouTube ) because of the young players who are actually supreme at it! But it means they actually meet with their opponents, shake hands and converse afterwards, remember that? Like playing skittles or darts at your local.

Not having clubs nearby or been to any star parties means I cannot look at the object that I require to evaluate , therefore I end up buying it! Usually second hand, new to me or even preloved!

I should sell it on if it’s not what I want, but I don’t. I was caught out once when selling a telescope through the bay, the buyer claimed things that were either not listed or just nit picking in order to get compensation, so I’m cautious in selling.

chaz

Edited August 19 by Chaz2b

[Chaz2b]

I wonder if this might persuade one or two into the galactic fold, hmmm.

[Mr Spock]

2 hours ago, Ags said:

As an autistic person, I much prefer moderated online communities to my few awkward attempts to join astro societies.

Same here. I find pubs, clubs and any other social gathering painful. Now I'm retired I can stay away from people completely 

[saac]

Is technology killing off astro clubs?  Not sure,  never been one to use these sort of clubs and to be honest, I always viewed astronomy as non social activity, something you did for a bit of me time.  However, if we were to ask "Is technology enabling astro activity?", then I'd have to say a resounding yes. From forums like SGL and the likes of Youtube tutorials and video reviews I think technology has been the greatest enabler and promoter of amateur engagement of astronomy.

Jim

[Earl]

9 minutes ago, Chaz2b said:

I wonder if this might persuade one or two into the galactic fold, hmmm.

 

I have a constant game going with my Dad, we play a few a week on a phone app.

[TiffsAndAstro]

22 minutes ago, Chaz2b said:

I wonder if this might persuade one or two into the galactic fold, hmmm.

2 dimensional chess is a bit too old school.....

[SteveNickolls]

There's precendent of course, not wanting to be a member of a club with such low standards to let one join, which I wouldn't of course (and am never asked) but it takes all sorts of course and some people love clubs and socialising and jolly good for them when they find it. Always thought of astronomy as a lonesome hobby with the stars and only occasionally shared with others. Nowadays there are so many things you can do in the hobby to ever be bored and being on one's own no one hears you moan at the weather. Joining a forum such as SGL allows for a modicum of sociability on one's own terms. I really enshew cliques.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[iantaylor2uk]

4 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

Pubs are an interesting one. I use it be a regular. Now, with beer costing around £5 per pint, sometimes £6, I find it hard to justify. Especially when I can get the same beer for £1.95 in the supermarket. Now I also brew my own too. As for kids not drinking. I have some friends with a teenage daughter. They have been complaining (justifiably so), that their daughter is buying alcohol at the supermarket and going a friend’s house or the local park to drink. the reason she gives is that “she can’t afford pub prices”. 

You should change to drinking bitter. At my local pub in Chester it's only £3.50 a pint.

[Elp]

I think the answer to this as it applies to more than one thing is, if it costs time and money and technology can enable similar for less then that's the "solution".

Sure we like to catch up in person, as we are a social species but the age of tech has changed things forever, lockdowns have proved that the world can still go on.

[Anne S]

I'm a member of Swansea astronomy club even though it's a 100 mile round trip to attend. But we meet fortnightly most of the year and monthly in the Summer. I could do zoom but I don't think there's much point in belonging to a club if you can't talk to people. Zoom is more suited to official meetings where everyone speaks through the chair.

I'm sure there should be a club in Somerset. Maybe do an online search, there are also lists in astronomy magazines.

Anne

[PeterStudz]

5 minutes ago, iantaylor2uk said:

You should change to drinking bitter. At my local pub in Chester it's only £3.50 a pint.

I only drink bitter! Well and proper still, dry and tannic cider. 

Maybe I should move!? And you should see the price for a pint of bitter in London. 

[900SL]

The growth area has surely been astro-photography in recent years. I'm not a member of any club, but ask whether Astronomy clubs are welcoming to AP'ers, or are they full of 'put that light out' ARP warden visual astronomer types?

Not intending to start anything heated here.. just a genuine question, based on some posts I have read over on CN

[lukebl]

4 hours ago, Ags said:

As an autistic person, I much prefer moderated online communities to my few awkward attempts to join astro societies.

I feel much the same. As an old introvert I’ve never been a ‘clubby’ person and find groups of more than 3 highly stressful! And having my own observatory, I don’t need to go anywhere! 

I notice that young people don’t seem to be into these pastimes. As a keen birder and twitcher, I’d see loads of people my age when I was birding in the 1980s. Now, when I go out, they’re still my age. i.e. in their 60s! No one to take up the baton.

[Paz]

I've tried a few clubs in my area but none have an active observing element which is the main thing I would like.

The club I went to most have a group of nice people but the demographic is mostly retired and I would regularly see the odd enthusiastic youngster appear once or twice and then never be seen again.

Unfortunately, I've got social skills and confidence on a par with a lump of roadkill, so I was no use helping newcomers and I'm not capable of creating or organising an observing group.

So for me it's mostly observing by myself and swapping notes on SGL that are how I engage in astronomy.

I have heard comments in other arenas that how young people engage in past times is changing and being a member of a group that meets monthly just isn't how they go about things so much any more.