Which 12” Dobsonian?

[RobertI]

I’m sure this has been discussed at length, but I can’t find many relevant threads, so here goes. I’m considering getting a 12” dob for visual. I’ve had smaller scopes up to 8” for many years but have had very little experience of larger apertures apart from a wonderful look through some large dobs (16”-20”) last year at Kelling. I would be using the scope mainly from my Bortle 4/5 garden and potentially putting in the car to take to Kelling once or twice a year. I’m hoping to be able to see a bit more of everything with the 12”, including hints of spiral arms and dark lanes in the brighter galaxies, more structure in nebulae such as the Crescent and possibly some challenge objects like the Horsehead. I will probably initially have to store it outside in a small shed or under a Telegizmos cover…. or both. 

So some key questions; is it worth it from my limited skies, which one to get, and do I really understand what I’m getting myself into?! I suppose the most important question is, will I actually use the thing?

There seem to be three main contenders in my price range, the StellaLyra solid tube, the Skywatcher Flexitube, and the Explore Scientific Ultra Light. I am thinking that options 1 & 2 will not be transportable in my family hatchback with tent, etc due to the huge rocker boxes (unless they dismantle?), so that renders the ability to collapse the Flexitube redundant. So it’s either observing from home only with Option 1, or possible observing trips with option 3. I am currently inclined to option 1…..

Thanks for reading this far, any thoughts and advice appreciated.

Edited August 18 by RobertI

[tomato]

The cradle on the SW 16” flex tube  dismantles into (big) flat pieces, but I’m not sure if the 12” does the same, hopefully someone will enlighten us.

[Second Time Around]

The Bresser rocker boxes dismantle.

"In addition, the new 12" BRESSER Messier makes it easy to transport the device as compactly as possible - the rocker box can be dismantled in a few simple steps because the parts are assembled with metal quick-release connectors. This quickly turns a bulky rocker box into a handy flat package of individual parts."

[RobertI]

22 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

The Bresser rocker boxes dismantle.

"In addition, the new 12" BRESSER Messier makes it easy to transport the device as compactly as possible - the rocker box can be dismantled in a few simple steps because the parts are assembled with metal quick-release connectors. This quickly turns a bulky rocker box into a handy flat package of individual parts."

Thanks for the heads up, although I’m struggling to find the 12” version for sale anywhere….

EDIT - found a retailer selling the 12”

Edited August 18 by RobertI

[Saganite]

Hi Rob,

I can only offer that I use a 12" OOVX from my garden under Bortle4 sky and when the seeing and transparency oblige, it is astounding. You will not be disappointed .

[John]

My advice is to get a lighter one !

I had a heavy 12 inch (Meade Lightbridge) and found that I hardly used it due to it's weight. Later I acquired a 12 inch dob based on an Orion Optics tube assembly (F/5.3) and a friend built a custom plywood base and the whole thing weighed the same as a chinese 10 inch - that scope got used a heck of a lot over the 10 years that I owned it 🙂

Edited August 18 by John

[Second Time Around]

I agree with John.  I've got both 8 inch f/6 and 10 inch f/4.8 Dobs from Orion Optics.  The aluminium bases in particular are superb as they're both lighter and have a smaller footprint than the competition.  The latter means that you can hold them closer to your body, making carrying them much easier.

Being somewhat disabled I can't manage 12 inch Dobs.  However, I found that I can manage 1 size up with OOUK Dobs, and to a lesser extent Bressers.

The OOUK Dobs are a step up in quality from the others but quite a bit more expensive.  However, they deprecate quickly and I bought mine used for a good price.

Edited August 20 by Second Time Around

[Mr Spock]

Home only - heavy to lift. I keep mine in a shed. Brilliant optics though. Great for fine detail on the moon and planets.

[RobertI]

Thanks for the answers so far folks, lots of helpful suggestions, and reassuring to know the views are worth it. I now think that transporting the thing by car is not realistic, so I’ll work on the basis that it’s home only. If I can set it up on wheels so that I only have to push it a few feet along the patio, then maybe weight is less of an issue, but if a second hand OO comes up, then that might be an option. That’s just reminded me that there is a company which hires scopes out by the week, including an OO 12” dob, so I’m now thinking I should ‘try before I buy’ assuming we get some clear nights.

[niallk]

That's a great option to be able to hire for a week or two to get a feel for the physical set up, tear down & cooling!  👍

Of course,you're at the mercy of seeing & transparency to judge the views.  Some nights are 'meh' for me with my 15", but those rare good nights are 'wow' and make it all worthwhile!

Edited August 20 by niallk

[Ceramus]

I've observed many dimmer DSO wit my 300P Flextube GoTo.  Most of them showed more detail than through my 8" Mead. The 12'" is of course much heavier but on it's trolley very easy to move around. I use it most nights when clear.  The 8" though is far  easier to fit in a small car for star parties...

Below the two for comparison.

[RobertI]

2 hours ago, niallk said:

That's a great option to be able to hire for a week or two to get a feel for the physical set up, tear down & cooling! 

I’ll post full reports if and when I get the beast.

Edited August 20 by RobertI

[seven_legs]

On 18/08/2024 at 19:46, Mr Spock said:

Home only - heavy to lift. I keep mine in a shed. Brilliant optics though. Great for fine detail on the moon and planets.

Can I ask, how did you attach the little feet on the bottom of the ota, I can do with something like that for my 12" stellalyra.

[Mr Spock]

26 minutes ago, seven_legs said:

Can I ask, how did you attach the little feet on the bottom of the ota, I can do with something like that for my 12" stellalyra.

They are bolted on. There are convenient holes for this.

[Whistlin Bob]

I'll concur with the other opinions on here: it's absolutely worth it! I'm using a 14" which I can't imagine is very different, and the performance advantage it has over my 8" is not small. My back garden is a Bortle 5, and most seasons I have at least one view of the Horsehead with it; I also find that galaxy season has much more to offer as the faint fuzzies you can get with it multiply, but possibly my favourite thing is looking at the brighter globs through binoviewers: they're just breath taking. Stars don't look as pretty as they do in a decent frac, but if you pop on an aperture mask you can still have a really decent unobstructed aperture (160mm in my case), which is also free from any hint of chromatic aberration.

I understand your preference for the different makes you mention, but I would definitely suggest keeping an eye on the second hand market to see if any truss based designs come up. That would get you the flexibility to travel (mine will fit in a Ford Focus with room for camping gear as well) which can get you to a dark site and a whole other level again. Unless the mirror has deteriorated or the scope has been poorly treated, there isn't really a downside to this.

[Louis D]

21 minutes ago, Whistlin Bob said:

I would definitely suggest keeping an eye on the second hand market to see if any truss based designs come up.

Good advice.  Big Dobs don't generally hold their value very well at all.  Of course, a fully tricked out Obsession 15" is still going to be quite expensive, but it will still be thousands less than new.

If your budget is tight, look for DIY'ers who build their own truss Dobs using parts from a commercial tube Dob.  Those really don't hold their value because of the unknown quality of construction and movement.  If you can visit them in person and check it out with them, you might find quite a bargain.

[seven_legs]

3 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

They are bolted on. There are convenient holes for this.

Thanks for the wealth of info🤣

[Mr Spock]

[Kon]

I recently got a 12" flextube goto, and it was totally worth it. I upgraded from my 8" and I am already loving the visual aspect as it's really gathering so much more light. Veil has been incredible, planetary nebulas down to mag 14 accessible and more..... everything looks brighter and with more structure. 

Transporting it is manageable....I fitted the base fully assembled in my Astra boot and ota at the passenger sit when I went to collect it. But I am not sure you will have space for other members of your family.

At home, it's a job of getting it out in two pieces from my french doors to the garden but the base is heavy and it can be a struggle if you have a bad back but a trolley can solve moving issues.

I got it mostly for the goto for planetary imaging and I still do star hoping to find several targets as I enjoy it. As I said, visually it's amazing.

[Nicola Fletcher]

I am afraid I can’t comment on the solid tube options, but my requirements were very similar to yours last year, and I ended up getting the ES 12” Ultra Light. I don’t regret my choice at all. I use it in my Bortle 4 garden, my family farm (I usually drive my scope to the field and set it up there) and it has been on some staycations to Bortle 2 sites on the west coast of Ireland. The setup is really portable and I can lift and assemble it on my own. One of my favourite things about it is that it is collimated from the eyepiece so it’s easy to do in the field and in the dark if necessary.

The views through it are nothing short of incredible. I don’t use it as much as my smaller refractors - I knew and acknowledged this when I bought it! But on clear, moonless nights it’s worth the effort to set it up and it’s simply incredible. I think the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen through a telescope was M81 and M82 last February. I still think about that night. 
Here are a couple of photos and a bad sketch of M81/82 from the Explore Scientific.

Best of luck with your search and I hope this helps!

Edited August 22 by Nicola Fletcher

[niallk]

3 hours ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I am afraid I can’t comment on the solid tube options, but my requirements were very similar to yours last year, and I ended up getting the ES 12” Ultra Light. I don’t regret my choice at all. I use it in my Bortle 4 garden, my family farm (I usually drive my scope to the field and set it up there) and it has been on some staycations to Bortle 2 sites on the west coast of Ireland. The setup is really portable and I can lift and assemble it on my own. One of my favourite things about it is that it is collimated from the eyepiece so it’s easy to do in the field and in the dark if necessary.

The views through it are nothing short of incredible. I don’t use it as much as my smaller refractors - I knew and acknowledged this when I bought it! But on clear, moonless nights it’s worth the effort to set it up and it’s simply incredible. I think the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen through a telescope was M81 and M82 last February. I still think about that night. 
Here are a couple of photos and a bad sketch of M81/82 from the Explore Scientific.

Best of luck with your search and I hope this helps!

Wow beautiful photo & nice sketch!

I think the 12" ES dob is a great option.  If I could, I'd pick up the 10" "Costco" version (€540) as a more compact travel dob - but only seems to be available in US 🙄

(Greetings from Cork!)

Edited August 22 by niallk

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I love the ground tarp. Nice example of reuse.

For the April eclipse, I laid out a gigantic blue tarp that I used to use under our family camping tent.  I setup three solar scopes at our friend's acreage near the eclipse center line.  It was a very dusty field behind their main house.  Everyone had a good time using my scopes to view the partial and total phases through the holes in the cloud cover.  It's obvious you get more rain there than we get in the Texas Hill Country. 😁

[Alan White]

Rob, do bear in mind that the larger the aperture, the longer the tube.
My 10" f4.8 fits across my Aygo rear seat, just.
The mount has to sit on the passenger seat as the Aygo boot is overwhelmed by a few shopping bags.

A 10 or 12 dob is quite revealing, the image scale is also part of the package too, but its different to any tripod mounted scop.
Different as in a good way most of the time.

[Nicola Fletcher]

7 hours ago, niallk said:

Wow beautiful photo & nice sketch!

I think the 12" ES dob is a great option.  If I could, I'd pick up the 10" "Costco" version (€540) as a more compact travel dob - but only seems to be available in US 🙄

(Greetings from Cork!)

Thank you! I’m sure your Obsession would blow it out of the water but I do love my ES. I saw the cheaper versions but the higher spec one I have is really nice to use and I have no issues with portability. I think dobs are fantastic and so much fun to use.

And hello from Wicklow 😊

[Nicola Fletcher]

5 hours ago, Louis D said:

I love the ground tarp. Nice example of reuse.

For the April eclipse, I laid out a gigantic blue tarp that I used to use under our family camping tent.  I setup three solar scopes at our friend's acreage near the eclipse center line.  It was a very dusty field behind their main house.  Everyone had a good time using my scopes to view the partial and total phases through the holes in the cloud cover.  It's obvious you get more rain there than we get in the Texas Hill Country. 😁

Yes, rain and cloud are the biggest obstacles to observing here. I’m going mad at the moment with a new scope and no opportunity to even have a look at the moon with all the cloud and rain. A good night is fantastic here but I would imasgine Texas is better.

I always have an empty sheep feed bag at hand for my scopes 😂 no need to worry if they get a hole in them - there are always plenty more in the shed!