Help choosing a CCD

[Stryda]

Hello, looking for some help choosing a CCD, for a beginner.

Current setup;

Meade LX200 12"  with Equatorial Wedge

Meade  etx 125

Hoping I can get a ccd to use with the 12" for astrophotography. Is there one that will do both DSO's & planetary images?

Mono or Colour, which is easier?

Would I be best getting a guide camera to accompany the ccd? Suggestions if so please?

Looking to spend not much more than £1000.

Many Thanks in advance

[Elp]

CCDs are supposedly quite cheap nowadays due to availability and popularity of CMOS, so currently it may prove to be more beneficial to purchase a CMOS instead. The benefit of less read noise with CCD still applies over CMOS, but I believe CMOS are more sensitive.

Ones dedicated to each application are better, planetary cameras tend to have smaller sensors compared to DSO specific ones so they can capture over 100 frames per second which you need to overcome atmospheric seeing variability. Though technically any camera can perform either function. The only one I've used which could do both, and both well is one based on a 485 sensor, the latest in the range would be 585 (ZWOs designation anyway).

Choice of camera largely depends on the targets you want to image, and the FOV you can get with your optics.

As your scope is long focal length a larger pixel camera will be better so the received signal can saturate the pixels better.

Colour/mono is a personal choice, either will benefit from narrowband filters for emission targets only, if your skies aren't dark or have light pollution. Mono gives more imaging options, a set of filters can cost more than the camera. In terms of post processing there's little difference, mono just takes slightly longer as you pre work on each channel, then combine them into a colour image and fine tune.

Your mount better be able to track in order for you to do long exposures (say up to 2-5 minutes per image). It will most likely need to be autoguided with another smaller camera and guidescope though longer focal length imaging can get benefit from using an off axis guider.

Another choice you need to decide upon is how to control it all via software, this will have a bearing on your potential camera choice.

[ELS]

Modern Sony sensors pretty much blow away all CCD options available, Theoretically CCDs could have better performance but since there has been barely any development in them since CMOS became popular, they're not comparable to CMOS options.
And when it comes to CMOS options, Sony sensors are generally the best in noise specs. And much more available than Canon sensors.

Edited August 5 by ELS

[Bivanus]

Hello @Stryda, I have the feeling you are using CCD as a general term for 'camera' If so, you are not alone, one of the best telescopes to camera matchers I know of is called CCD Suitability on astronomy.tools and you'll never guess what the bulk of the astrocams selectable there are...yep, CMOS ones 😄

Now your tool is a big boy, I am more into smaller things up to 4", so I can only give general advice based mainly on the fact that being a tad on the lazy side I also wanted a camera to: 1) do both planetary and DSO; 2) avoid filters and stuff like humongous sessions. After reading a bit and listening to people bicker on various forums - and clarifying in my mind that I am rather EAA than AP, but that's another story - the ASI ZWO 585MC camera seemed to be the sweet spot for my F/7 refractor telescopes and indeed I am happy with it. Also, talked by people who wanted more DSO but also some planetary I've heard good things about the 585MC PRO that is the cooled version and also the good ol' 533MC

You can also have a look here Best Camera for Planetary and Lunar imaging with the Meade LX200GPS 12" Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope - Major & Minor Planetary Imaging - Cloudy Nights, it seems other had similar questions.  

EDIT: Because of the long focal ratio, I would say guiding is a must, I use the ASI ZWO 120MMS and I've heard good things about the 290MMS too but really there are more cam's usable for guiding even color ones are ok. Also, just because I use ZWO it does not mean they are the only ones; the same Sony sensors are also in Player One and QHYCCD cameras.

And last but not least, the mount/scope/camera are all feeding information into the...software 😁 Don't forget about that, all the pretty pictures you see, be it Planetary or DSO exist only because they were made pretty in SharpCap , FireCapture (planetary) NINA , AutoStakker (DSO) Photoshop (visual twiqing) to give only some examples. 

Edited August 5 by Bivanus
details

[Stryda]

Thank you all for the replies.

Still a bit overwhelmed with all of the options, some of it way over my head!

Seems I need a CMOS camera, and from what i've read an OAG would be better than a guidescope?

I don't suppose anyone could provide literally a shopping list to take me from the basic scope and mount/wedge to a full working setup? (Say around the £1k mark).

Do guide cameras come with guide software included? Sorry, only ever used a Canon 5d Mark ii, at sub 30 sec exposures, stacked in DSS, and adjusted in PS before. Hoping some new equipment will let me do much longer exposures for DSO. As well as take some planetary images.

Open to any advice/suggestions.

Many Thanks again

 

[Elp]

On 04/08/2024 at 22:35, Elp said:

Choice of camera largely depends on the targets you want to image, and the FOV you can get with your optics.

Determine this first for your requirements.

Guide cams usually don't come with software, again see my above post last paragraph. Do you want to use free PC software using a laptop "in the field", an all in one control box which sits on the scope, power supply you're going to use... 

[ollypenrice]

I would stop and take a breath. I know it seems unreasonable but you are very unlikely to get anywhere with a 12 inch SCT on a Meade fork and wedge.

I know these mounts of old and it is the devil's own job to get them stable enough, and guiding well enough, to get anywhere near the stiffness and tracking accuracy needed for their extreme focal length. Look at lots of DS images on the forums and see if you can find anybody using them nowadays. My guess is that you'll be looking for a long time.

You are at serious risk of throwing good money after bad.

On the other hand, CCD cameras are the best value on the market if you buy used. Anyone would think they were fossils so prices have plummeted, but they have still taken some of the best amateur images ever seen. And CMOS pixels are way too small for SCTs anyway.

Olly

[Bivanus]

@Stryda, I didn't want to be the one to break the not so good news, especially since I simply do not use neither SCT types nor other large size scopes but @ollypenrice has hit the nail on the head.  Yes , you MAY use it , some people still do , even with the drawbacks explained by olly , however , they are rare and far between and even they would agree that it is not a combination for begginers.

There is a reason why most of us start with a small refractor , some 50 to 80 mm and at F/6 - F/7 like the William Optics RedCat51 or the  Skywatcher 72ED  or the plethora of China made 80mm ( I have the TS Optics version )  - it's simpler. And nowdays there are also the smart scopes like the Dwarf Lab or the Zwo Seestar that are small , easy to use , and can be controlled by smartphone or tablet.

By all means , don't feel dissapointed , that big boy is swell for visual , and there is no law preventing you taking a rather cheap uncooled astrocamera to have a go at the sky , just be aware many tears lay that way - I mean frustration tears due to the equipment not delivering as oposed to tears due to the beauty of the views 

EDIT: Oh , and regarding the mount , there is a dedicated term "deforking" to quicly describe dismantling the tube from a forked mount and placing it on a different mount.Ask yourself , why it's so common that a word was established for it. 😁

EDIT2: A picture worth a thousand words , look what an AP LX200 rig looks like. The Paramount ME mount from SoftwareBisque is still available at a measly 17995 USD . Full article here: Meade 12" LX200R (ACF) - Schmidt-Cassegrains (SCTs) - Articles - Articles - Cloudy Nights

Edited August 9 by Bivanus

[ollypenrice]

3 hours ago, Bivanus said:

@Stryda, I didn't want to be the one to break the not so good news, especially since I simply do not use neither SCT types nor other large size scopes but @ollypenrice has hit the nail on the head.  Yes , you MAY use it , some people still do , even with the drawbacks explained by olly , however , they are rare and far between and even they would agree that it is not a combination for begginers.

There is a reason why most of us start with a small refractor , some 50 to 80 mm and at F/6 - F/7 like the William Optics RedCat51 or the  Skywatcher 72ED  or the plethora of China made 80mm ( I have the TS Optics version )  - it's simpler. And nowdays there are also the smart scopes like the Dwarf Lab or the Zwo Seestar that are small , easy to use , and can be controlled by smartphone or tablet.

By all means , don't feel dissapointed , that big boy is swell for visual , and there is no law preventing you taking a rather cheap uncooled astrocamera to have a go at the sky , just be aware many tears lay that way - I mean frustration tears due to the equipment not delivering as oposed to tears due to the beauty of the views 

EDIT: Oh , and regarding the mount , there is a dedicated term "deforking" to quicly describe dismantling the tube from a forked mount and placing it on a different mount.Ask yourself , why it's so common that a word was established for it. 😁

EDIT2: A picture worth a thousand words , look what an AP LX200 rig looks like. The Paramount ME mount from SoftwareBisque is still available at a measly 17995 USD . Full article here: Meade 12" LX200R (ACF) - Schmidt-Cassegrains (SCTs) - Articles - Articles - Cloudy Nights

Even for visual, my 14 inch Meade now rides on a Mesu 200. (By the way, a Mesu currently costs around less than £6000 and I wouldn't consider swapping it for a Paramount at $17000 USD under any circumstances.

Olly