A question about new gear induced clouds

[chaotician]

I recently bought my first cooled camera from Aliexpress, however between me ordering it and it shipping my work threw me an unexpected job away from home. 

This brings me to my question, does the mandatory period of new gear induced cloud cover start when the object is delivered to my home, or does it start when I actually have it in my hand?

Any answers would be much appreciated,

 

Matt

[PXR5]

If new gear produces clouds, then maybe if we join The Cloud Appreciation Society they will dissipate?

https://cloudappreciationsociety.org/

[Steve Ward]

21 minutes ago, chaotician said:

I recently bought my first cooled camera from Aliexpress, however between me ordering it and it shipping my work threw me an unexpected job away from home. 

This brings me to my question, does the mandatory period of new gear induced cloud cover start when the object is delivered to my home, or does it start when I actually have it in my hand?

Any answers would be much appreciated,

 

Matt

It starts when you open the box and let the cloud spores out into the atmosphere , that's why I only buy astro stuff in person from a shop , that way I can open the box there and leave the clouds to grow over the retail outlet's head rather than carry them home to mine ... 😉

[Floater]

2 hours ago, Steve Ward said:

It starts when you open the box and let the cloud spores out into the atmosphere , that's why I only buy astro stuff in person from a shop , that way I can open the box there and leave the clouds to grow over the retail outlet's head rather than carry them home to mine ... 😉

You wish … 😑

[Steve Ward]

19 minutes ago, Floater said:

You wish … 😑

Judging by your location I rather suspect it is your good self doing the wishing Gordon , here in ( generally )  Sunny Suffolk it's always worked rather well ... 😄

Having had The Astronomy and Nature Centre about 20 minutes away when I started buying kit and now having The Widescreen Centre about 25 minutes away in one direction and Optical Vision's warehouse about 20 minutes away in the opposite direction does make it pretty easy though I have to admit ... 😉

[saac]

This sounds like another interpretation of Schrödinger's cat ?

Jim

[Steve Ward]

31 minutes ago, saac said:

This sounds like another interpretation of Schrödinger's cat ?

Jim

Apart from the fact that every astronomer knows the clouds are in the box waiting ... 😉

[Carbon Brush]

I have received parcels from FLO with large 'warning may contain clouds' labels.
However, I have not kept record of the cloud duration.

@Steve Ward. Has anyone established distance limits on new kit induced clouds?
I'm thinking that if you are downwind of Widescreen, maybe you should move home?🤔

Also, in the past we used to buy more kit in person at shops. Restricting cloud formation to a few locations in the UK.
My purchases tend to be online. This practice is now common.
Does this explain the increasing clouds we are all reporting?
Nothing to do with global warming, climate change and the like.

Should the retailers (and drop ship warehouses) be using an anti cloud agent/chemical? Like the bags of silica gel used in shipping.

[Ags]

If you open the boxes upside down, then carefully reseal them after the payload is extracted, the clouds can't get out.

[M40]

I believe that the God of "the astronomers new bought stuff clouds" is very similar to the God of "the red traffic lights". Both of them do their thing just when you don't want them too. You have no control. You think your two week period is up, but oh no it's not. I'm convinced that I've heard them both sniggering at me.

[globular]

What causes clouds?

A cloud is defined as 'a visible aggregate of minute droplets of water or particles of ice or a mixture of both floating in the free air'. Each droplet has a diameter of about a hundredth of a millimetre and each cubic meter of air will contain 100 million droplets. Because the droplets are so small, they can remain in liquid form in temperatures of -30 °C. If so, they are called supercooled droplets.

Clouds at higher and extremely cold levels in the atmosphere are composed of ice crystals - these can be about a tenth of a millimetre long.

Clouds form when the invisible water vapor in the air condenses into visible water droplets or ice crystals. For this to happen, the parcel of air must be saturated, i.e. unable to hold all the water it contains in vapor form, so it starts to condense into a liquid or solid form. There are three ways by which saturation is reached.

(a) By increasing the water content in the air, e.g. through evaporation, to a point where the air can hold no more.

(b) By cooling the air so that it reaches its dew point - this is the temperature at which condensation occurs, and is unable to 'hold' any more water. Figure 1 shows how there is a maximum amount of water vapor the air, at a given temperature, can hold. In general, the warmer the air, the more water vapor it can hold. Therefore, reducing its temperature decreases its ability to hold water vapor so that condensation occurs.

(c) By an astronomer, usually amateur, purchasing a new piece of equipment.

Method (b) is the usual way that clouds are produced, and it is associated with air rising in the lower part of the atmosphere. As the air rises it expands due to lower atmospheric pressure, and the energy used in expansion causes the air to cool. Generally speaking, for each 100 meters/330 feet which the air rises, it will cool by 1 °C, as shown in Figure 2. The rate of cooling will vary depending on the water content, or humidity, of the air. Moist parcels of air may cool more slowly, at a rate of 0.5 ° C per 100 meters/330 feet.

Therefore, the vertical ascent of air will reduce its ability to hold water vapor, so that condensation occurs. The height at which dew point is reached and clouds form is called the condensation level.

There are six factors which can lead to air rising and cooling:

1. Surface heating. The ground is heated by the sun which heats the air in contact with it causing it to rise. The rising columns are often called thermals.
2. Topography. Air forced to rise over a barrier of mountains or hills. This is known as orographic uplift.
3. Frontal. A mass of warm air rising up over a mass of cold, dense air. The boundary is called a 'front'.
4. Convergence. Streams of air flowing from different directions are forced to rise where they meet.
5. Turbulence. A sudden change in wind speed with height creating turbulent eddies in the air.
6. Astronomania. A sudden impulse to buy new astronomy equipment which causes the movement of exotic astronomy particles, most notably fluorite, being moved at high speed (especially when FLO are involved) from one location to another.

Another important factor to consider is that water vapor needs something to condense onto. Floating in the air are millions of minute salt, dust and smoke particles known as condensation nuclei which enable condensation to take place when the air is just saturated. Astronomy packaging materials are amongst the most activating particles ever measured.

[Steve Ward]

1 hour ago, Carbon Brush said:

@Steve Ward. Has anyone established distance limits on new kit induced clouds?
I'm thinking that if you are downwind of Widescreen, maybe you should move home?🤔
 

Widescreen Centre is NW of me and OVL are ENE , my prevailing wind is from the SW so there's little chance of the fluffies following me home ... 😂

[chaotician]

So, given the collected wisdom given to me in this thread, I think my best bet is to, whilst I am away, as the parcels arrive get my wife to take them to a location upwind of my yard and open them to let the cloud spores disperse elsewhere.

Does anyone have any idea what sort of distance away from the house she'll have to go? I am concerned about the spread of the clouds covering my place if she doesn't go far enough. Also is there any benefit of her changing locations between opening each package? I wouldn't like to cause an unnecessary build up of cloud spores in a single location.

[Ags]

I don't believe in cloud spores. If you think about it, dew forms on optics, so by extension is it also reasonable to assume that condensation in the form of clouds will form around the optics too. The only solution I'm afraid is to remove all the lenses and mirrors from our scopes.

[Astronomist]

53 minutes ago, Ags said:

condensation in the form of clouds will form around the optics

Are you suggesting huge dew heaters could be a solution to the problem? I would try one of those mushroom heater things, but I fear it may negatively impact seeing conditions...  🙃

[Ags]

Wrapping a dew strap around the equator should just about do it.

[chaotician]

9 hours ago, Ags said:

I don't believe in cloud spores. If you think about it, dew forms on optics, so by extension is it also reasonable to assume that condensation in the form of clouds will form around the optics too. The only solution I'm afraid is to remove all the lenses and mirrors from our scopes.

 

2 minutes ago, Ags said:

Wrapping a dew strap around the equator should just about do it.

 

8 hours ago, Astronomist said:

Are you suggesting huge dew heaters could be a solution to the problem? I would try one of those mushroom heater things, but I fear it may negatively impact seeing conditions...  🙃

I think we might be on to something here, I'm glad to be a small part of this important scientific research.

 

 

[M40]

18 minutes ago, Ags said:

Wrapping a dew strap around the equator should just about do it.

Not sure that would work, someone like me would trip over the power lead and unplug it.

[M40]

If you can have a solar powered device, couldn't one of you clever lot come up with a cloud powered device and blow the clouds into space? We could then look for a space gas cloud, there must be a better term than that for a space gas cloud, any thoughts?

[chaotician]

I've noticed a possible parallel effect, the more astro related parcels that arrive at home whilst I'm away, the longer my work keeps me from going back there, my camera arrives tomorrow and minutes after I found out that I'm being sent to Dublin for a week the day after I get back from this trip.

I might get to open my treasures, but I doubt it.

[Ags]

It is an extension of Pauli's Exclusion Principle. The more likely you are to like a new purchase, the less likely you are to be geographically correlated to it.

[MalcolmP]

On 07/08/2024 at 17:32, Ags said:

Wrapping a dew strap around the equator should just about do it.

I'd be satisfied with a little one round the UK  

On 07/08/2024 at 17:51, M40 said:

Not sure that would work, someone like me would trip over the power lead and unplug it.

me too,  but mine would only need a little off-shore wind usb,  not a big tokamak  

[chaotician]

On 08/08/2024 at 20:37, chaotician said:

I've noticed a possible parallel effect, the more astro related parcels that arrive at home whilst I'm away, the longer my work keeps me from going back there, my camera arrives tomorrow and minutes after I found out that I'm being sent to Dublin for a week the day after I get back from this trip.

I might get to open my treasures, but I doubt it.

Woop woop, due to our client being chronically disorganised I get to go home and stay home, for at least a week.

[Jim Franklin]

Maybe we should start a new society - "Astronomers for Global Warming" as that should deal with the cloud issues - not sure how popular it would be though!!

[Ags]

Sadly global warming means more clouds, not less…