Which dedicated DSO Camera?

[Spad]

I have now decided to get a dedicated cooled DSO camera and I am unsure which one to get! There is so much info to intake, it's just over whelming my feeble brain....

The two I have been looking at, are both ZWO cameras. They are the ASI 585MC Pro, and the ASI 183MC Pro.

Would either of these be suitable as a begining point to using dedicate cooled DSO cameras or is there another I may have missed?

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated!

Regards,
Iam

Edited August 2 by Spad

[Elp]

You have to specify what you want to image, and what optics you'll be using in order for people to recommend.

Use astronomy.tools or the Telescopius telescope simulator to check your framing on some targets.

[Spad]

2 minutes ago, Elp said:

You have to specify what you want to image, and what optics you'll be using in order for people to recommend.

Use astronomy.tools or the Telescopius telescope simulator to check your framing on some targets.

Ahhhhh... ok! Already checked framing.

I will be using them with SVBony 70ED & 102ED Refractors.

[Elp]

So a lot of large galaxies, and emission nebulae. If you're not planning on doing planetary forget about the 585, its 16:9 aspect ratio will make you yearn for more height, it is however a good budget option (as is the 485). The 183 is still good, the 533 is a more modern equivalent with better full well, you'd have to decide if the square sensor will suit your imaging requirements. I'd avoid a 294 OSC like the plague due to the random red green cast it produces across the whole of your images.

[Elp]

If you're not going to use an Asiair you've got more brand options too. Altair, qhy, SVbony, Player One, ToupTek among others.

[Spad]

5 minutes ago, Elp said:

So a lot of large galaxies, and emission nebulae. If you're not planning on doing planetary forget about the 585, its 16:9 aspect ratio will make you yearn for more height, it is however a good budget option (as is the 485). The 183 is still good, the 533 is a more modern equivalent with better full well, you'd have to decide if the square sensor will suit your imaging requirements. I'd avoid a 294 OSC like the plague due to the random red green cast it produces across the whole of your images.

Thank you.... Will look in to the 533 as well!

[Spad]

7 minutes ago, Elp said:

If you're not going to use an Asiair you've got more brand options too. Altair, qhy, SVbony, Player One, ToupTek among others.

I did look at one of the SVBony cameras, but I read that they have quit bad amp glow.

ASIAir is something I would like to get in the future. This is why I have been looking at ZWO cameras.

[Ags]

The ASIAIR is one of the astronomy purchases I am most happy with, it is like having a  self-driving telescope! I too am eying getting a 533. 

[Elp]

1 hour ago, Ags said:

ASIAIR

It does make it a whole lot easier. Never felt the need to change (maybe just for planetary got a rpi for that).

[Elp]

1 hour ago, Spad said:

I did look at one of the SVBony cameras, but I read that they have quit bad amp glow.

@TiffsAndAstro have just acquired one for a good price, worth asking them, or see their review done recently.

[TiffsAndAstro]

2 hours ago, Elp said:

@TiffsAndAstro have just acquired one for a good price, worth asking them, or see their review done recently.

one thing i should have said in the review i posted but forgot  there IS amp glow, but on a 10 min dark its like 5 pixels in the very very corner. this is a quick screen grab look for the blue arrow bottom left hand corner. remember this is histogram view and 10minutes at -5c. pretty sure don't really need to do darks. 

Edited August 2 by TiffsAndAstro

[Spad]

14 minutes ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

one thing i should have said in the review i posted but forgot  there IS amp glow, but on a 10 min dark its like 5 pixels in the very very corner. this is a quick screen grab look for the blue arrow bottom left hand corner. remember this is histogram view and 10minutes at -5c. pretty sure don't really need to do darks. 

Is it worth getting over a ZWO camera tho?

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 hour ago, Spad said:

Is it worth getting over a ZWO camera tho?

I would say no, unless you're very budget conscious like me.

I can't now choose to use an asiair if I wanted to, and the zwo version camera has a two port usb hub built in which would be very handy. also i assume zwo has uk/european support. anything goes wrong with my svbony and it will probably have to go back to china

think the svbony is about £460 on svbony website at the moment. dunno how much zwo version is. 

Edited August 2 by TiffsAndAstro

[Spad]

£300 more! 🥵

[WolfieGlos]

16 hours ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

anything goes wrong with my svbony and it will probably have to go back to china

That’s the same with ZWO. I think I remember seeing @tomato say he recently sent one back to ZWO for repair. I’ve had the 585 for a year now, no issues, but I’ve read elsewhere on here that whilst it might take a while to send and get your camera back (say 4 weeks or so), they do a good job.

Of course if it goes wrong in the first two years then it’s covered under warranty. I might be mistaken, but Im sure I’ve seen that FLO will send you a replacement and then send the faulty one away for repair.

[Tony Acorn]

18 hours ago, Elp said:

It does make it a whole lot easier. Never felt the need to change (maybe just for planetary got a rpi for that).

I'm a bit of a cheapskate so I didn't buy the cooled version of the ASi585 MC, settling for the basic 585MC instead. I have an 80mm f/6.25 refractor with an ASi EAF, an ASi120MM guide camera all sitting on an ASi-AM3 mount and run by an ASiAir-Mini. I planned to do some DSO stuff and a bit of Planetary so the 585MC with my scope isn't a bad compromise although for M31, the 585MC combination requires a mosaic to capture the whole galaxy.
If (and it's rather unlikely) I outgrow this set-up, changing the 'scope would open new horizons with the same camera. I also have a 150P-DS SW Explorer on an HEQ5 mount to which I can attach my Nikon Z6ii and a 3x Barlow if I want to zoom in more or use a 2x Barlow or no Barlow if I want to capture wider fields. Referring back to M31, the 150P-DS and the Z6ii captures the whole of M31 in one shot.
The ZWO / refractor bundle is an easy rig to put together, to travel and to use with its simple Polar Alignment, good(ish) auto focusing, excellent tracking and a great GoTo facility. By slavishly following the ZWO route, everything is integrated even if it means I have limited my choices. On top of that, it all runs for hours from a 150W lithium power pack and works on a decent tablet so doesn't need a laptop in a dark field.

HTH and waiting for clear skies (I bought too many boxes from FLO that definitely did contain clouds),

Tony

 

Edited August 3 by Tony Acorn
Typos

[Elp]

I also made the conscious decision to go zwo from the start, more camera choice on the used market and less depreciation. The asiair is also the easiest control solution I've used, and I didn't want a computer in the control part of it at all. So for me, no issue in the decision.

 

[Spad]

2 hours ago, Tony Acorn said:

I'm a bit of a cheapskate so I didn't buy the cooled version of the ASi585 MC, settling for the basic 585MC instead. I have an 80mm f/6.25 refractor with an ASi EAF, an ASi120MM guide camera all sitting on an ASi-AM3 mount and run by an ASiAir-Mini. I planned to do some DSO stuff and a bit of Planetary so the 585MC with my scope isn't a bad compromise although for M31, the 585MC combination requires a mosaic to capture the whole galaxy.
If (and it's rather unlikely) I outgrow this set-up, changing the 'scope would open new horizons with the same camera. I also have a 150P-DS SW Explorer on an HEQ5 mount to which I can attach my Nikon Z6ii and a 3x Barlow if I want to zoom in more or use a 2x Barlow or no Barlow if I want to capture wider fields. Referring back to M31, the 150P-DS and the Z6ii captures the whole of M31 in one shot.
The ZWO / refractor bundle is an easy rig to put together, to travel and to use with its simple Polar Alignment, good(ish) auto focusing, excellent tracking and a great GoTo facility. By slavishly following the ZWO route, everything is integrated even if it means I have limited my choices. On top of that, it all runs for hours from a 150W lithium power pack and works on a decent tablet so doesn't need a laptop in a dark field.

HTH and waiting for clear skies (I bought too many boxes from FLO that definitely did contain clouds),

Tony

 

To be honest, for wider field images I have an astro modded 600D as well, if I wanna go REALLY wide I have a 5D MkII to!! Must admit tho, I am looking forward to doing a mosaic... just need to learn how to do it!

[tomato]

3 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

That’s the same with ZWO. I think I remember seeing @tomato say he recently sent one back to ZWO for repair. I’ve had the 585 for a year now, no issues, but I’ve read elsewhere on here that whilst it might take a while to send and get your camera back (say 4 weeks or so), they do a good job.

Of course if it goes wrong in the first two years then it’s covered under warranty. I might be mistaken, but Im sure I’ve seen that FLO will send you a replacement and then send the faulty one away for repair.

It was a RisingCam 571c where I succeeded in frying a component on the power management PCB, totally my fault. It was out of warranty anyway so I sent it back to China for repair. Turnaround was 40 days, total cost inc shipping about £140, so I was very happy with RisingCam's repair service.  From what I have read, ZWO's service is equally as good.

As I'm sure you already know, If you want to go the ASIair route, then you will need a ZWO camera.

[Tony Acorn]

1 hour ago, Spad said:

To be honest, for wider field images I have an astro modded 600D as well, if I wanna go REALLY wide I have a 5D MkII to!! Must admit tho, I am looking forward to doing a mosaic... just need to learn how to do it!

For really wide imaging, the Nikon Z6ii is a full frame beauty which I use with a Samyang (Rokinon) 14mm f/2.8 manual focus lens and it is a good pairing for the likes of The Milky Way, The Summer Triangle and multiple planetary conjunctions but obviously I have to limit exposures to around 15s maximum to avoid star trails. It does hopwever produce good results at ISO 640 for that duration. To assist in the focusing, I have a clamped-on extension rod so I can get finer adjustments but maybe I should add a collar to the front of the lens so I can fit a Bahtinov Mask in the search for perfection.

[Spad]

21 hours ago, Tony Acorn said:

For really wide imaging, the Nikon Z6ii is a full frame beauty which I use with a Samyang (Rokinon) 14mm f/2.8 manual focus lens and it is a good pairing for the likes of The Milky Way, The Summer Triangle and multiple planetary conjunctions but obviously I have to limit exposures to around 15s maximum to avoid star trails. It does hopwever produce good results at ISO 640 for that duration. To assist in the focusing, I have a clamped-on extension rod so I can get finer adjustments but maybe I should add a collar to the front of the lens so I can fit a Bahtinov Mask in the search for perfection.

Tony,

I borrowed a Samyang 14mm, but found it a bit of swine to focus. Unfortunately the infinity mark is off and hyperfocal was a fail to.

I also have a Canon EF 20MM 2.8... this one is a gem and bang on at infinity.

Do you have any tips for focusing the 14mm?

Edited August 4 by Spad

[Tony Acorn]

"Do you have any tips for focusing the 14mm?"

Hi Spad,

My Samyangs have both been pretty good although I agree that the infinity marks aren't that accurate. Here's how I do it:
1 - Place a small piece of reflective tape on the Focus Distance Scale over the Infinity mark.
2 - Set your camera on a tripod and focus on a very distant object in daylight, checking against the LCD screen when it is zoomed in to maximum magnification. (I have a set of wind turbines some 10Km away that I use). When focused, use a fine permanent marker to put a dot on the tape
3 - Swing the focus ring just past the ideal spot then return to ideal focus, putting a second spot on the tape when you get to ideal focus. With my mirrorless camera, I set the aperture through the camera, not on the lens barrel so the central guide marker comes in handy as the reference mark.
If you are lucky, the two spots will coincide but if not, you know that there is a small amount of slack in the focusing mechanism and you can allow for that depending on which direction you need to turn the focus ring. If the two positions do coincide (as mine do on this new Z-Mount lens), change to dot to a decent sized line that you can spot in the dark.
I shot this image last night using my Z6ii Nikon - ISO 640, 15 seconds exposure at a max aperture of f/2.8. I've cropped the image by 50% but not applied any sharpening, noise reduction or any other editing / correction. You can pick out Ursa Major and Cassiopea whilst a satellite flies over Polaris. Unfortunately, I didn't get a single Perseids Meteor - which was why I had set up that camera whilst imaging the Veil Nebula with my ZWO bundle. Although quite clear at times, there were significant wind gusts trhroughout the session until clouds rolled in around 1am.
 

[Elp]

The 14mm is quite easy to focus, get near, take an image, review and zoom in, adjust focus, repeat. Done within a minute or so.

I've used other lenses which are far far more difficult to focus.

If you've got live focus magnification on your camera this helps a lot, with a computer controller and focus routine it's even easier.

If using the lens in an urban location it's very difficult next to impossible to use though due to the large fov it provides and the curvature of the glass if you've got light sources nearby you'll get lens flaring. I ultimately got rid of it for that reason, the lowest I use now at home is 24mm, if in or around dark sites however the world is your oyster, I can use 10mm, anything lower and you're into fish eye territory.

 

[Ratlet]

I had an Altair 533 which did exhibit amp glow, however it was replaced no fuss.  Second unit that I got had no amp glow.  Mine was somewhat worse that @TiffsAndAstro's on the darks but wouldn't show up at all on an actual image.

The Altair 533's are pretty cheap at the moment £650 and come with a hard case.