Telescope for 12 year old

[Kon]

I am posting this on behalf of a friend. His daughter is interested in astrophysics and he reached out to me about getting her a telescope as a birthday present. He wants her to be able to see the planets and moon. His budget is €150-200. I suggested a local astronomy group to see first hand some telescopes but they are kin on getting her one as a surprise birthday present.

I suggested the Skywatchetr 130P flextube. Are there other options that might be worth considering?

They want a fairly straightforward setup.

[Mr Spock]

Heritage 130 would be perfect. No complexity to it at all. I hear the optics are pretty good. Table top though, so something needed to stand it on. Also supplied eyepieces only get up to x65, so maybe a Barlow or short focal length eyepiece needed.

I wish stuff like that had been available when I first started 

[Pete Presland]

simple to use and its a good size aperture as well, much bigger than my first scope. 

[CraigT82]

Heritage 130p is a great little scope, has the basic helical focuser but that can be ok once you get used to it. It was my first scope in 2011 and install have it, it’s the only one that’s stayed with me so far. Optics are surprisingly good and I’ve had it head to head with various scopes like a 127mak, TAL100RS, 102 f11 achro, and I’ve preferred the views through the Heritage 130 to the lot of them. Had to spend a lot more to get better views of Jupiter! 
 

Definitely need to think about eyepieces though, the supplied ones are fine to get started but will need a barlow or shorter eyepiece to do any planetary viewing.  Can be easily picked up though for cheap. 
 

If the budget can be stretched I’d be tempted to jump straight to the 150p f8 Dob, as the supplied 10mm will get you to 120x which is enough for planetary views. More stable platform and sits on the ground, and not having to buy another eyepiece straight away somewhat makes up for the extra outlay to get the scope. Also the focuser is a more normal R&P unit and so they could make use of something like the SVbony 3-8mm zoom in the future, which would be an absolute pain in the heritage focuser. 
 

Id always advocate for buying used instead of new to get more bang for buck, but they might need some help to avoid buying something unsuitable they then couldn’t return. 

Edited July 30 by CraigT82

[Kon]

32 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

Heritage 130p is a great little scope, has the basic helical focuser but that can be ok once you get used to it. It was my first scope in 2011 and install have it, it’s the only one that’s stayed with me so far. Optics are surprisingly good and I’ve had it head to head with various scopes like a 127mak, TAL100RS, 102 f11 achro, and I’ve preferred the views through the Heritage 130 to the lot of them. Had to spend a lot more to get better views of Jupiter! 
 

Definitely need to think about eyepieces though, the supplied ones are fine to get started but will need a barlow or shorter eyepiece to do any planetary viewing.  Can be easily picked up though for cheap. 
 

If the budget can be stretched I’d be tempted to jump straight to the 150p f8 Dob, as the supplied 10mm will get you to 120x which is enough for planetary views. More stable platform and sits on the ground, and not having to buy another eyepiece straight away somewhat makes up for the extra outlay to get the scope. Also the focuser is a more normal R&P unit and so they could make use of something like the SVbony 3-8mm zoom in the future, which would be an absolute pain in the heritage focuser. 
 

Id always advocate for buying used instead of new to get more bang for buck, but they might need some help to avoid buying something unsuitable they then couldn’t return. 

Thanks for the info Craig. I was thinking of a small setup that his daughter could setup on her own. They also think that the interest may not last so it's unlikely they want to spend more.

You and @Mr Spockmade similar comment on the eyepieces so I will tell my friend to factor this in.

[PhotoGav]

I would recommend a good pair of binoculars with a tripod and a solid adapter. Very easy to use, will give great views of the Moon and reasonable views of planets, can be used easily in the day too so will outlive any drop in Astro interest!! Combine that with a good book (eg Steve Tonkin’s ‘Discover the Night Sky through Binoculars’) and there will be plenty of interesting observing sessions ahead. 

[Peter_D]

I think the fundamental question is does 'fairly straightforward setup' mean they are comfortable with collimation. If yes, go with the newt, if no, go with a Mak, especially if they are primarily interested in Moon and planets - a SW 90mm Virtuoso Mak was my first telescope (might be slightly over budget.)

Edit: over budget if new, it's £259 @  FLO.

Edited July 30 by Peter_D

[happy-kat]

The heritage 130p can be used with the telescope on the (dry) ground I found while I sat in a plastic garden chair and I think certainly possible for a 12 year old. Using the supplied 10mm I saw that Saturn had a ring and Jupiter has bands, but a Jupiter moon shadow transit needed from memory my 6mm with possible 1.6x short barlow. A 102mm mak looks good size and won't need collimation, both come up time to time on here for sale

[Gfamily]

1 hour ago, Peter_D said:

I think the fundamental question is does 'fairly straightforward setup' mean they are comfortable with collimation. If yes, go with the newt, if no, go with a Mak, especially if they are primarily interested in Moon and planets - a SW 90mm Virtuoso Mak was my first telescope (might be slightly over budget.)

Edit: over budget if new, it's £259 @  FLO.

I think most users of the 130p find they never need to collimate.

And although the stated initial interest is on the Moon and planets, the smaller aperture and much smaller field of view of the Mak will make it much more limiting for other use (open clusters and nebulae).

As for additional eyepieces, I've used the Svbony 7-21mm with the Heritage 130p and it gives a good range of powers. This is a real bargain, lightweight and straightforward to use, though the Twist to Zoom of the EP can compromise the Twist of Focus of the scope. A minor issue though. 

[Carbon Brush]

We are of course totally in the dark (yes humour🤔) about the recipient and the places the scope may get used.
Is it strictly back garden? Or taken to other places?
Some think a refractor is a 'proper' scope and a newt is something home made.
A Mak beats a newt for off axis (shiny inside tube if not flocked) stray light.
Either scope can be thrown into a sports bag for use away from home.
Don't forget as magnification goes up, object chasing comes into play.
A Mak on altaz may be considered easier?
No easy answers unfortunately.

On balance, a low cost newt/dob is an excellent introduction.
If the enthusiasm is maintained, the recipient will start to express opinions on the next model up.
If enthusiasm wanes, not much is lost.

[Kon]

5 hours ago, PhotoGav said:

I would recommend a good pair of binoculars with a tripod and a solid adapter. Very easy to use, will give great views of the Moon and reasonable views of planets, can be used easily in the day too so will outlive any drop in Astro interest!! Combine that with a good book (eg Steve Tonkin’s ‘Discover the Night Sky through Binoculars’) and there will be plenty of interesting observing sessions ahead. 

Thanks Gavin, I suggested it but they really want a telescope as it has more of the astronomy factor.

[Kon]

4 hours ago, Peter_D said:

I think the fundamental question is does 'fairly straightforward setup' mean they are comfortable with collimation. If yes, go with the newt, if no, go with a Mak, especially if they are primarily interested in Moon and planets - a SW 90mm Virtuoso Mak was my first telescope (might be slightly over budget.)

Edit: over budget if new, it's £259 @  FLO.

I like the sound of it and I will pass the recommendation to my friend. I am not sure they will be really hands on and the Mak seems to have the tracking too.

[Kon]

2 hours ago, Gfamily said:

I think most users of the 130p find they never need to collimate.

And although the stated initial interest is on the Moon and planets, the smaller aperture and much smaller field of view of the Mak will make it much more limiting for other use (open clusters and nebulae).

As for additional eyepieces, I've used the Svbony 7-21mm with the Heritage 130p and it gives a good range of powers. This is a real bargain, lightweight and straightforward to use, though the Twist to Zoom of the EP can compromise the Twist of Focus of the scope. A minor issue though. 

I will pass the information to them.

[Kon]

1 hour ago, Carbon Brush said:

We are of course totally in the dark (yes humour🤔) about the recipient and the places the scope may get used.
Is it strictly back garden? Or taken to other places?
Some think a refractor is a 'proper' scope and a newt is something home made.
A Mak beats a newt for off axis (shiny inside tube if not flocked) stray light.
Either scope can be thrown into a sports bag for use away from home.
Don't forget as magnification goes up, object chasing comes into play.
A Mak on altaz may be considered easier?
No easy answers unfortunately.

On balance, a low cost newt/dob is an excellent introduction.
If the enthusiasm is maintained, the recipient will start to express opinions on the next model up.
If enthusiasm wanes, not much is lost.

The main interest is moon and planets. They will be observing from a city centre back garden so quite a bit of light pollution. I am not sure if they plan to travel to a dark site.

The Mak seems to me that it might be a good Idea.

[Kon]

On a Mak side, which one is a good option in the €150-200ish budget? Mostly for moon and planets.

[PeterStudz]

Having been through this I know it can be full of unseen and surprising issues. I only got into astronomy because my then 9 yr old daughter (she’s now almost 13) wanted a telescope. I thought that was a great idea as it was potentially something that we could both do together - personally an opportunity not to be missed. And it has turned out that way. 

Although a 9 yr old is quite a bit different to a 12 yr old this was not something where you could just stick her out in the garden and let her get on with it. Last night/morning was a good example. We were outside looking at the planets from 1:30 to 5:30am. Turned out to be tremendous fun, but I would not want her out in an urban back garden at that time, for that long and on her own. Although I know that on her own she wouldn’t do that length of time. 

One of the things that did surprise we was that it took an age for Alice to get use to nudging a Dob, especially at high magnification (basically planetary) - she’s nudge it too far, lose the target, look in the finder, back to the eyepiece, nudge, get frustrated… But slow motion controls she got in an instant. All I literally said was “twiddle these sticks” and away she went. 

Zooms have also been a problem. She does not like a narrow FOV! It’s easy to forget that even looking through an eyepiece is a skill. 

Anyway, I wish your friend and daughter luck!

[PeterStudz]

What I should have also added - children are really just small adults. Just get something that’s light, easy to carry and easy to use. And something you THINK will best suit your/their needs. You don’t really know until you try!

[bosun21]

I give another 👍 for a Mak, especially if it has tracking. They allow you to point and track without having to do an alignment. One of the small Virtuoso models would be ideal. If going for a reflector I would advise getting the Ursa Major 6" dobsonian. It's a full size scope so no table required. It's only an additional £69. If it were my daughter this is what I would get her. My first telescope was a Charles Frank 4" reflector and it certainly got me hooked for life. Unfortunately none of my children showed any interest in anything astro.

[a6400]

Just got Heritage 130p second hand and it has good optics imo but focuser is really bad and the spider is a pain as well.

You can mod the focuser with tape though.

You can get it for 80-100£ used.

Edited July 30 by a6400

[RobertI]

Another thing to consider is the look of the scope - quite often kids want something that “looks like a telescope”, ie: a refractor! Newtonians just don’t create the same kind of excitement! So I’m going to be controversial and suggest this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-astromaster-lt70az-f10-refractor-telescope.html

I’ve actually used one and it’s very capable. The tube is very light and sits well on this kind of mount. 

I don’t want to seem negative, but in the event that it only gets used once or twice, at least a refractor will look cool setup in the bedroom, and may be a reminder to have another go sometime or be used as a terrestrial scope for birdwatching. Hopefully the bug will set in straight away and it well get loads of use. 

[a6400]

2 minutes ago, RobertI said:

Another thing to consider is the look of the scope - quite often kids want something that “looks like a telescope”, ie: a refractor! Newtonians just don’t create the same kind of excitement! So I’m going to be controversial and suggest this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-astromaster-lt70az-f10-refractor-telescope.html

I’ve actually used one and it’s very capable. The tube is very light and sits well on this kind of mount. 

I don’t want to seem negative, but in the event that it only gets used once or twice, at least a refractor will look cool setup in the bedroom, and may be a reminder to have another go sometime or be used as a terrestrial scope for birdwatching. Hopefully the bug will set in straight away and it well get loads of use. 

I had this version:

https://amzn.eu/d/0eIo5vFg
 

And one part broke while assembling, the Heritage 130p base seems much better quality.

But it has the drawbacks mentioned above.

[Elp]

Personally, I wouldn't go too long of a focal length, it can be frustrating finding targets without goto or plate solving, even more so if you're just starting out and trying to get someone new interested. The tripod+mount also better be rock solid, otherwise the constant vibrating views will also be a put off.

Think the heritage for the price cannot be beaten, see Astrobiscuits YT video on it when he put it to the test against other larger setups for comparison.

Edited July 30 by Elp

[Elp]

A different suggestion at a higher price (but still small compared to comparable equipment) would be a ZWO Seestar or Dwarflabs Dwarf (nearly V3 very soon).

Can't do solar system at long FL, but you'll "see" far far more with it, and be able to share the results with others (usually a prerequisite with the younger gen). Simple plonk down and go operation too, no added accessories etc. Can also use for daytime stuff.

[happy-kat]

To lengthen the interest in using a telescope and looking at the Moon, there's the lunar 100 list of different features on the Moon that can be found using a telescope. Finding all those targets will soon get the user used to using a telescope.

[PeterStudz]

2 hours ago, RobertI said:

Another thing to consider is the look of the scope - quite often kids want something that “looks like a telescope”, ie: a refractor! Newtonians just don’t create the same kind of excitement! 

Well, I had the exact opposite of this. My daughter already had “astrophysicist Barbie” (surely all girls do) who of course being a real astrophysicist has a Newtonian. I would not have been able to get away with anything else! 
 

https://amzn.eu/d/04cKKsOg