Moving house - tips for finding astronomy friendly properties?

[M40]

8 hours ago, Tony Acorn said:

without a shop, school, pub, health facility and probably lacking mains water, sewerage and electricity

Well we dont have the school or the health facility and no mains gas supply but we do have the rest. You did miss a couple of important ones off your list though, in the remote areas you don't get, or we don't anyway, pavements, buses or cycle paths. Strange what you miss.

[Shimrod]

On 27/09/2023 at 12:35, Leo S said:

So we are currently in between properties and on the verge of selling the old house. I have been looking (around the north cost of Norfolk) for a suitable property to move to, but not really seeing anything great in our price range, so will probably have to widen the search and look in other areas.

I was wondering if anyone has any tips for helping to find a good property, ie. one that will work well for astrophotography. Of course I have used light pollution maps to check the suitability of potential properties, but perhaps there are some other tricks I might be missing?

While a reasonably dark sky is important to me, I specialize in imaging meteors and fireballs with video cameras, so good views in as many directions as possible (ie few obstructions blocking the view of the horizon) are more of a priority. I was hoping for one in a green zone (ideally), but so far what I've found that is suitable is a bit pricey, so may have to compromise there!

 

Possibly a bit late, since this thread was started nearly a year ago, but if you haven't moved yet it's also worth checking the local plan and recent planning permissions when you find a house. The house next door to us (with a large 1/4 acre garden) sold to a developer who put four houses on there. I've completely lost my view to the south, and now have neighbours who like to leave lights on and curtains open illuminating my garden. We've also had a few large housing estates spring up on the edge of the town in areas that previously would have given reasonable dark skies, so check the council's local plan for any designated future large scale builds.

[GTom]

First of, if you have the chance, move  out of the country and seek out a high altitude mediterranean village with low light pollution. Preferably in or right on the edge of a National Park (=no large scale development expected).

UK by definition has no Summer nights and cloud cover is simply disastrous year round. Also, we are prohibitively North for many nice targets - missing bright parts of our own Milky Way for starters.

 

Edited July 27 by GTom

[GTom]

On 26/07/2024 at 11:20, Mr Spock said:

I wish I could move. Somewhere near the bottom of the Lizard would be nice. There's a £4m house just in the right spot. Just need that lotto win 

Terrible choice with a jackpot ;). With that sort of funds I'd be on the first flight South.

[Varavall]

On 26/07/2024 at 11:20, Mr Spock said:

Somewhere near the bottom of the Lizard would be nice.

I used to live there and I can confirm the skies above and to the south were really dark, that is when the rain stopped. I now live in a remote-ish location in Spain with no rain but Saharan dust at times 🙄

[Leo S]

Thanks all for the continued posts here. They are still useful! I would consider moving aboard, but I don't want to be too far from family. Perhaps one day I'll buy a mountain cabin or something as a holiday retreat!

I have found a new property, and made an offer which has been accepted, but not much else has happened beyond that.

It's not perfect, but Clear Outside says it's one Bortle notch above where I currently am (going from a 6 to a 5) , has fairly good views (only a couple of trees in the way), and has a sizable extension with a flat roof which can be accessed via a glazed door in the master bedroom!

The only fly in the ointment is that it's covered in ash-felt. I'm determined to use it some how anyway. I'll try putting an outdoor rug or something down to protect the ash-felt temporarily, but perhaps decking might be an option? Any one have experience with these kind of things?

The property backs onto a field, and is only two houses away from where the village ends and the fields start, and while it's not quite at the top of a hill, it's not far from it, and certainly one of the most elevated plots in the village. The property itself (and either side next door) is a bungalow, so there aren't too many roofs in the way, and with the houses across the street being lower down the hill, the sky is fairly open in all directions, especially from a slightly elevated position (like a flat roof).

The back end of the garden is also higher up, and there is a fully insulated (and with power) "summer house" at the end of the garden, which I'm not quite sure what to do with! It does block views somewhat, but could be useful to house something, and/or I might put decking on the roof if the extension is not an option.

Overall it seems a good compromise, although I could have done with slightly larger bedrooms/or another room to store stuff in (I have too much!) and/or rent out, but I'm sure I'll find a way. At least it should make a fairly good observatory, that I can also live in!

[Leo S]

On 27/07/2024 at 16:10, Varavall said:

I used to live there and I can confirm the skies above and to the south were really dark, that is when the rain stopped. I now live in a remote-ish location in Spain with no rain but Saharan dust at times 🙄

Saharan dust also finds it's way over here on a fairly regular basis. At least every 3-4 weeks on average I'd say there's a new coating on the car. It shows up very well on black paintwork!

[GTom]

53 minutes ago, Leo S said:

Saharan dust also finds it's way over here on a fairly regular basis. At least every 3-4 weeks on average I'd say there's a new coating on the car. It shows up very well on black paintwork!

I'd be seriously worried about mirror cleanliness there.

[Leo S]

54 minutes ago, GTom said:

I'd be seriously worried about mirror cleanliness there.

I don't actually use/have any scopes, but I do use MILCs and DSLRs, often left out overnight when hunting for meteors and fireballs. I try not to clean my lenses too often, but usually it's just a quick go over with the blower. I try to avoid changing lenses as much as possible also, and in the future I'm planning some DIY enclosures for the cameras which I can just leave outdoors.

I would think though, others in the UK have problems with it too, if I'm getting it on a regular basis here (quite a central position) since these dust clouds are massive.

[Xilman]

On 27/07/2024 at 15:43, GTom said:

First of, if you have the chance, move  out of the country and seek out a high altitude mediterranean village with low light pollution. Preferably in or right on the edge of a National Park (=no large scale development expected).

Oi!

What you got against villages near a national park on Atlantic islands?

Bloody Mediterranean chauvinists ...

Edited August 7 by Xilman

[M40]

12 hours ago, Leo S said:

has a sizable extension with a flat roof which can be accessed via a glazed door

Ask the council planning department if you can install a balustrade for safety as you would like to put a telescope up there. If they say no, that's it sorted, if they say yes then I see an excellent diy conservartory thread in the future. Hope your move goes well, all the best. 

[Mr Spock]

The only issue with putting scopes on building surfaces is rising heat will destroy your seeing.

[GTom]

2 hours ago, Xilman said:

Oi!

What you got against villages near a national park on Atlantic islands?

Bloody Mediterranean chauvinists ...

St Helena must be great if you got the funds to live there

[Leo S]

2 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

The only issue with putting scopes on building surfaces is rising heat will destroy your seeing.

Thankfully I don't use scopes since I'm after meteors/fireballs, and with video/wide angle lenses seeing is not an issue. So just video cameras and visual observing from the roof.

I do have a couple of longer lenses though, so I guess they will just be used in the garden. Was hoping to image some sunspots with the 800mm, but solar filters are impossible to find since the eclipse a few months back!

[Xilman]

3 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

The only issue with putting scopes on building surfaces is rising heat will destroy your seeing.

s/building surfaces/heated buildings/

Fixed that for you.

My telescope is under a dome and on the roof of an unheated building. By far the biggest influence on seeing is turbulence arising from high winds rushing down La Cumbre Vieja.

[Xilman]

2 hours ago, GTom said:

St Helena must be great if you got the funds to live there

Indeed.

Property prices in La Palma, OTOH, are really quite reasonable compared with most of Europe. IGIC (the local equivalent of VAT) is only 7% compared with ~20% elsewhere in Europe. Electricity is moderately expensive (i.e. similar to the rest of Europe), petrol is cheaper than in the UK and local taxes are reasonable IMO. Booze is half the UK price.  8-)

My major expense is for flights, though Ryanair, Jet2, Vueling, et al. are very good value outside the holiday seasons

 

[Xilman]

16 hours ago, Leo S said:

Saharan dust also finds it's way over here on a fairly regular basis. At least every 3-4 weeks on average I'd say there's a new coating on the car. It shows up very well on black paintwork!

We get Saharan dust (called calima locally) quite often. It is generally associated with high temperatures and a milky-white daytime sky. Night time limiting naked eye magnitude can be as bad as +1. If you can only see two stars in Orion, you know it is not worth opening up the observatory. The only truly blue moon I have seen was during a particularly bad calima. It was metallic-blue in colour and only Betelgeuse and Rigel were visible in Orion.

A calima finished yesterday. The temperature today is 14C lower than it was four days ago --- 23C compared with 37C

I keep the optics covered except when they are in use. Cleaning is only needed once or twice annually.

[scotty1]

Probably good all round views, might be light pollution from the nuclear power station though.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/28122077/britains-most-isolated-home-goes-up-for-sale/

[GTom]

5 hours ago, Xilman said:

s/building surfaces/heated buildings/

Fixed that for you.

My telescope is under a dome and on the roof of an unheated building. By far the biggest influence on seeing is turbulence arising from high winds rushing down La Cumbre Vieja.

yeah, that one can be quite turbulent at times, let's hope it stays air only in the next few hundred years!

[ollypenrice]

20 hours ago, GTom said:

I'd be seriously worried about mirror cleanliness there.

Then you'll be seriously worried about it anywhere in Europe with clear skies. I live at a dark site as good as anywhere in mainland Europe and Sahara sand has become a frequent thing. It really isn't a big deal. The biggest pain is washing the cars...

Olly

[Mr Spock]

Sahara sand isn't a big problem, just wash it off. I'd be more worried if it was Blackpool sand... 

[Carbon Brush]

Assuming the purchase is still progressing, have you checked with the council (district & county) about their '10 year plan' or equivalent?
I have found these useful before moving home as they define 'black lines' limiting village expansion - as well as anticipated development.
Yes things can change, and they have lmited life.

On using the flat roof extension. I would just get on with using it and see how it performs.
If there is a door leading out, it is presumably intended to take a lot more than one person + scope weight.
Give it a try and see how you get on with thermals from the hot roof material.
If you do use it permanently, just put up a safety rail/fence/balustrade.
Common sense says that refusing or arguning about a balustrade goes against safety.
If you ask the council, they will expect a building regs report. They can't approve it without knowing materials strengths.
The building inspector will want the roof ripping of to check things he can't see.....someone will want drawings....

I'm sorry to say they get carried away if they get the chance at job creation.
As a result of building regs jobsworths who just want to pass on responsibility to structural engineers, who again want no risk....
My garage has a thicker floor and more steel mesh than my house! No I don't store lorries and buses in there!
A 2.5M outside wall has a 1.2M foundation because of a hedge 4M away!

[M40]

12 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

On using the flat roof extension. I would just get on with using it and see how it performs

I don't think an informal chat with the planning dept would hurt. A chap I know installed a balustrade to a flat roof without planning permission and was told to remove it, this as neighbours complained about privacy. He just put a couple of sun loungers up there but if you were looking to put a camera up there, well....

[Leo S]

9 hours ago, M40 said:

I don't think an informal chat with the planning dept would hurt. A chap I know installed a balustrade to a flat roof without planning permission and was told to remove it, this as neighbours complained about privacy. He just put a couple of sun loungers up there but if you were looking to put a camera up there, well....

One of my concerns is that neighbors might get the wrong idea if I start putting cameras on the roof, so I plan to knock on a few doors and explain that I'm trying to catch astronomical phenomena with the cameras (might take a laptop and show them some examples of my captures), and they will mostly be covering the sky, although some roofs and the odd window may sneak in, but because of the wide angle lens and camera settings which are intended to capture faint objects, the cameras will not record any detail if someone were to walk by a window for example. And of course, the cameras will only operate at night.

I also already explained to the sellers my intentions (although I'm not sure I made it clear I wanted to put cameras on the roof), and what I do, so hopefully they will have spoken to the neighbors already. The husband, who is a retired builder, seemed more concerned that I might damage the ash-felt by walking on the roof.

It turns out my landlord knows a builder who is a "flat roofing specialist" so I'll get his contact details and ask him to have a look.

It did strike me as a little strange that there's a nice door (double doors in fact!) leading to the roof, yet the roof shouldn't be walked on!

 

[GTom]

Best is to invite them over and show them some nice visuals.

Moon, planets and Deep Sky  I mean, not the bikini model across the street 😉