At last: some clouds on Venus for me!

[Nik271]

I enjoyed some of the best seeing conditions on Venus last evening and I believe I finally saw cloud pattern!

I started at sunset, about 9pm when I could just barely make Venus out and it was still high in the sky. I had set up my 127 (120mm) SW Mak earler on my trusty EQ5, and from the first glimpse in the eyepiece I realised that I'm havng a lucky day: Venus was rock steady at x100. I put in my 10mm Hyperion for a very comfortable and steady view at x150. Venus was still too bright so I added the 80A filter, which darkened the sky and at the same time softened to glare from the planet.

The terminator was a shade darker than the rest and making a very shallow curve. Right in the centre of the crescent there was a subtly darkish patch of irregular shape which I could not pin down. First I thought it was floaters but after blinking and shaking my head the same patter kept reappearing. I am sure it was not floaters because I tried with the other eye and it was still there. This was something very subtle, it took me 20 minutes of staring to reassure myself it is not an illusion. When I removed the 80 A for unfiltered view it was not possible to see it. Also when I tried higher magnification I lost it due to increasing turbulence lower down.

After 10pm it got dark enough to spot Mars, I managed to ramp  up the magnification to x250 with a 6mmEP and in brief moments of steadines saw the north polar cap. I finished at 11pm with some bright double stars: Izar, the double double and Rasalgethi.   The seeing stayed great at high altitude and I got very pleasing view in the Mak but the Venus clouds were the real 'star' of the evening.  

So there you have it: Venus has clouds and they can sometimes be seen. We all knew that but it's great to check it with your own eyeballs :-)

Clear skies and keep looking up!

 

[John]

Excellent and encouraging report Nik 🙂

Seeing cloud detail on Venus is something I've struggled with despite having some decent equipment. It's good to know that I might eventually get somewhere if I keep at it. 

I have wondered if, like a few other challenging astro targets, it's possible to be seeing it without realising that you are ?

[RobertI]

Nice result Nik. 👍 I think I may also have spotted some cloud patterning last night. I used my binoviewers in the 102ED at around 160x while the sky was still glowing after sunset. I couldn’t see any cloud detail and Venus was really bright, but I happened to have an OIII filter to hand, and this darkened Venus considerably and I’m pretty sure I could then see some subtle darkened patches on the disc along the terminator. I did a lot of fiddling with different filters without much success, but always got the same result with the OIII, so I don’t think it was an illusion.

[Nik271]

2 hours ago, John said:

Excellent and encouraging report Nik 🙂

Seeing cloud detail on Venus is something I've struggled with despite having some decent equipment. It's good to know that I might eventually get somewhere if I keep at it. 

I have wondered if, like a few other challenging astro targets, it's possible to be seeing it without realising that you are ?

Thank you, John!

I've tried many times earier but until yesterday could not see anything conclusive. I seems to require a lucky combination of good seeing, right level of magnification and control of the brightness to  see any detail on Venus. 

[Nik271]

44 minutes ago, RobertI said:

Nice result Nik. 👍 I think I may also have spotted some cloud patterning last night. I used my binoviewers in the 102ED at around 160x while the sky was still glowing after sunset. I couldn’t see any cloud detail and Venus was really bright, but I happened to have an OIII filter to hand, and this darkened Venus considerably and I’m pretty sure I could then see some subtle darkened patches on the disc along the terminator. I did a lot of fiddling with different filters without much success, but always got the same result with the OIII, so I don’t think it was an illusion.

Thank you and well done too, Robert! It's encouraging to have confirmation from another observer, especially since we were both observing with roughly similar aperture and magnification. OIII will be more aggressive in cutting the glare than medium blue, I will try this next time. It will be strange to see a green Venus 🙂

[JeremyS]

Congratulations! Something that has always eluded me.

[reezeh]

24 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Congratulations! Something that has always eluded me.

Couldn't Taks do everything? 😉

[JeremyS]

6 minutes ago, reezeh said:

Couldn't Taks do everything? 😉

Yes, but not necessarily the owner 🤔

[neil phillips]

5 hours ago, Nik271 said:

I enjoyed some of the best seeing conditions on Venus last evening and I believe I finally saw cloud pattern!

I started at sunset, about 9pm when I could just barely make Venus out and it was still high in the sky. I had set up my 127 (120mm) SW Mak earler on my trusty EQ5, and from the first glimpse in the eyepiece I realised that I'm havng a lucky day: Venus was rock steady at x100. I put in my 10mm Hyperion for a very comfortable and steady view at x150. Venus was still too bright so I added the 80A filter, which darkened the sky and at the same time softened to glare from the planet.

The terminator was a shade darker than the rest and making a very shallow curve. Right in the centre of the crescent there was a subtly darkish patch of irregular shape which I could not pin down. First I thought it was floaters but after blinking and shaking my head the same patter kept reappearing. I am sure it was not floaters because I tried with the other eye and it was still there. This was something very subtle, it took me 20 minutes of staring to reassure myself it is not an illusion. When I removed the 80 A for unfiltered view it was not possible to see it. Also when I tried higher magnification I lost it due to increasing turbulence lower down.

After 10pm it got dark enough to spot Mars, I managed to ramp  up the magnification to x250 with a 6mmEP and in brief moments of steadines saw the north polar cap. I finished at 11pm with some bright double stars: Izar, the double double and Rasalgethi.   The seeing stayed great at high altitude and I got very pleasing view in the Mak but the Venus clouds were the real 'star' of the evening.  

So there you have it: Venus has clouds and they can sometimes be seen. We all knew that but it's great to check it with your own eyeballs :-)

Clear skies and keep looking up!

 

Its almost a mythical pursuit. But your observation and the way you describe it  is actually tallying with Venus putting on a great show at the moment. Some color visible light images have shown cloud recently. So that coupled with the good conditions recently add a lot of weight to your report. From anyone doubting. I think its highly likely you are seeing cloud. So excellent stuff Nik. Its a rather special thing to be happening with any certainty. But i will wager you are seeing cloud on Venus. Amazing really

Edited June 4, 2023 by neil phillips

[John]

The slightly odd thing is that I felt as close to detecting some contrast changes in the cloud tops of Venus with my little 70mm ED doublet refractor as I have when using my 130mm triplet. Maybe aperture is not the whole story when trying to see this type of feature ?

 

[Alan White]

It always makes me laugh, we bemoan Cloud all the time,
Then we go seek cloud on another Planet! 

[John]

3 minutes ago, Alan White said:

It always makes me laugh, we bemoan Cloud all the time,
Then we go seek cloud on another Planet! 

I wonder if you can see detail in the Earth's cloud systems from Venus 

[JAC51]

1 hour ago, John said:

I wonder if you can see detail in the Earth's cloud systems from Venus 

Imagine how long you would have to wait on Venus for clouds to clear it’s bad enough here at times.

[Alan White]

2 hours ago, John said:

I wonder if you can see detail in the Earth's cloud systems from Venus 

Depends on how you fair in Carbon Dioxide atmosphere and very high Atmospheric Pressure, oh and the acid also does not dissolve you or your kit.

 

[John]

Well, Venus is very crisp and clear this evening at 225x with my 100mm refractor. I've tried an O-III and a lunar filter and no filter at all but nothing, to my eye, that resembles structure or contrast variations on those dense cloud tops.

It's still a lovely sight though.

I hope any venusians observing Earth are having as much fun !

[Nik271]

I just came back after 1 hour of observing Venus. This time with an OIII filter and slightly higher magnification (x165). The seeing conditions are still very good.

I manged to see less detail with this filter: darkening at the terminator which seemed a bit irregular. Most notable was a brighter spot near the north horn. I indicated it in the following sketch:

 

[John]

I decided to take the policy of "if any contrast difference seems to show, sketch it". I highly exaggerated the contrast. The result was this, which looks nothing much like yours Nik !

 

[Nik271]

Interesting! Perhaps different coloured filters emphasise different features, (or it's all a trick of the eye!).

I'm waiting to see what our friends imagers show for 3rd and 4 June. The north and south bands in your sketch John seem to tally well with this one by @Space Cowboy:

 

[RobertI]

Interesting snd very contrasting sketches @Nik271 and @John. What I saw was closer to Nick’s than John’s, but reading the other comments in this thread about how difficult it is to see these cloud features, I’m wondering what I saw now!

[Zermelo]

FLO's take on filters to use for Venus and other planets:
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/flo-guides-colour-filters-to-improve-lunar-and-planetary-visual-observing.html

And one from Agena:
https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/visual-and-imaging-filters/choosing-a-color-planetary-filter.html

Other resourcess:
https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/downloads/dl/file/id/1688/product/2934/usind_filters_for_lunar_planetary_observation_by_william_a_paolini_sept_17_2020.pdf

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/496644-venus-some-filter-views/
 

 

[Nik271]

I just found this article on Venusian clouds with a lot of history and drawings by many observers.  

 

https://www.astronomy.com/science/unveiling-the-clouds-of-venus/

 

 

[John]

I found this image on another forum, taken on the 4th June from Seattle, USA. Comparing it with my rough sketch, there do seem to be some similarities:

 

[JeremyS]

I’m always amazed by Paul Abel’s drawings of Venus: https://britastro.org/observations/user.php?user=793

[Stu]

Well, I’ll hold my hands up and say that anything I do see doesn’t match anything I’ve seen here, so I’ll have to assume I’m not seeing anything real.

Is there any truth in what I’ve read about sensitivity to the blue end of the spectrum, towards the ultra violet improves what you are able to see? I have to assume my eyes are just not sensitive enough in this area.

I’ll content myself with what I’m seeing ie some dimming towards the terminator and some slight variation in brightness. I did see the ‘horns’ last night which are now starting to develop despite it still being 49.2% illuminated.

[Mr Spock]

I've been using an 80A filter, along with a variable polariser to get Venus down to an acceptable brightness. Clouds are visible with that combination although they are delicate.

I have a 47 filter which I haven't been able to try yet. Hopefully that should increase contrast of the cloud features and improve their visibility.