In and out of love with a Dob?

[Louis D]

21 hours ago, Jim L said:

There were a couple of other large reflectors at the party, including a 14” Meade Schmidt-Cassegrain, but the big Orion out performed them handily, being brighter, having more contrast, and being sharper both on and off center. Honestly, I was surprised by how much better it performed than it’s far more expensive peers, but perhaps their mirrors were dimmed by age, and their collimation wasn’t optimal. I don’t know, but I was very impressed with the Orion 12” Dob.

That's why I bought a Dob as my first scope.  I went to two public outreach star parties in the late 90s.  There were about 40 to 50 scopes on the field each time.  Each time, I was most impressed with the views through the mid to large sized Dobs as compared to the views through the A-P APOs and SCTs on the field.  I won't lie, those A-P APOs sure looked pretty, but 10" to 18" Dobs totally blew them away on nebula, globs, and planetary detail under our Texas skies.  The larger SCTs all had mushier views than the equivalent sized Dobs.  They all couldn't have had bad collimation.  It was only with the recent arrival of the Celestron EdgeHD SCTs that I thought planetary views rivaled their Dob counterparts.

On the same night of good seeing at these parties, I can easily pick out more detail aperture for aperture on planets in custom Dobs having hand figured mirrors over commercial mirrors.  That, and the mirror cell, focuser, and motion mechanics are so much better.  You would think the commercial suppliers would be trying to up their game after 25+ years of making Dobs, but they're not.  I think the mirrors have improved in quality, but not the mechanics.  They're still using heavy materials with poor sticktion/friction balance.  Where are their premium offerings to compete with the custom makers?  Toyota created Lexus to successfully compete with the luxury car brands.  You would think the Asian telescope makers would follow suit with a luxury astro brand to take away market share.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Jim L said:

The soap trick worked beautifully, Monica is once again in love with Dobs, and I can see a new 10” Dob in our future.

I never did get to star test collimate the primary mirror, but the Barlowed-laser collimation I did on my work bench was good enough that the moon showed astounding detail, and M13 took on a decidedly 3D appearance with dozens of resolved stars in the foreground surrounding and framing the luminescent core.

There were a couple of other large reflectors at the party, including a 14” Meade Schmidt-Cassegrain, but the big Orion out performed them handily, being brighter, having more contrast, and being sharper both on and off center. Honestly, I was surprised by how much better it performed than it’s far more expensive peers, but perhaps their mirrors were dimmed by age, and their collimation wasn’t optimal. I don’t know, but I was very impressed with the Orion 12” Dob.

 

I have seen this first hand myself.  Orion scopes seem to be brighter then the other GSO scopes.  It isnt a huge amount but it is noticeable.  

[bosun21]

17 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

I have seen this first hand myself.  Orion scopes seem to be brighter then the other GSO scopes.  It isnt a huge amount but it is noticeable.  

I owned both an Orion and Skywatcher 8” dobsonians previously and noticed nothing between them. Orion Optics on the other hand could have higher quality mirrors.

[bosun21]

22 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

I have seen this first hand myself.  Orion scopes seem to be brighter then the other GSO scopes.  It isnt a huge amount but it is noticeable.  

He was comparing it to a Schmidt Cassegrain not a dobsonian.

[Jim L]

On 28/05/2023 at 07:11, bosun21 said:

He was comparing it to a Schmidt Cassegrain not a dobsonian.

True enough, but there was also a beautifully hand made 10” Dob with a f/3.3 hand figured primary and secondary I hadn’t mentioned. It was perfectly sharp in very small zones that seemed to move with your eye, but overall I thought it was a bit soft. Perhaps it hadn’t fully acclimated when I looked through it?

We’ve pretty much settled on a 10” Dob for Monica, and of the readily available scopes State side the 10” Orion SkyLine seems the best choice. I’ll likely wrap up my research in the next couple of days and place my order later in the week.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Jim L

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Jim L said:

True enough, but there was also a beautifully hand made 10” Dob with a f/3.3 hand figured primary and secondary I hadn’t mentioned. It was perfectly sharp in very small zones that seemed to move with your eye, but overall I thought it was a bit soft. Perhaps it hadn’t fully acclimated when I looked through it?

We’ve pretty much settled on a 10” Dob for Monica, and of the readily available scopes State side the 10” Orion SkyQuest seems the best choice. I’ll likely wrap up my research in the next couple of days and place my order later in the week.

Look at the Skyline model as well.  There are some differences between it and the sky quest scopes that are worth noting.  Enough difference that i went for it over the Skyquest.   The dual speed focuser and RACI are upgrades worth noting.  

Edited May 29, 2023 by Mike Q

[Louis D]

Don't overlook the Explore FirstLight series.  Their altitude trunnions alone make them very worthwhile.

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, Mike Q said:

Look at the Skyline model as well.  There are some differences between it and the sky quest scopes that are worth noting.  Enough difference that i went for it over the Skyquest.   The dual speed focuser and RACI are upgrades worth noting.  

The Skyline model is made by GSO and is identical to the Apetura, Stella Lyra etc.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

The Skyline model is made by GSO and is identical to the Apetura, Stella Lyra etc.

Yes, but it comes better equipped then the Skyview.  

[Jim L]

7 hours ago, Mike Q said:

Look at the Skyline model as well.  There are some differences between it and the sky quest scopes that are worth noting.  Enough difference that i went for it over the Skyquest.   The dual speed focuser and RACI are upgrades worth noting.  

Mike, I miss-wrote the Orion model name; it is indeed the GSO made SkyLine version I’m considering, and I’ve corrected my earlier post. The only obvious downside of the SkyLine compared to the SkyQuest is its increased weight. Beyond that, and for a very small additional cost, the Skyline has the advantages you’ve noted plus what I hope are better motion bearings. My only remaining question, which I haven’t found the answer to, is wether one mirror is better figured than the other.

Louis, I’ve carefully considered the Explore FirstLight series scopes and concluded that while the trunnion altitude bearings are likely smoother than the alternatives their greater exposure makes them more susceptible to the kind of damage I’m likely to inflict in transport.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Jim L

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Mike, I miss wrote the Orion model name; it is indeed the GSO made SkyLine version I’m considering, and I’ve corrected my earlier post. The only obvious downside of the SkyLine compared to the SkyQuest is its increased weight. Beyond that, and for a very small additional cost, the Skyline has the advantages you’ve noted plus what I hope are better motion bearings. My only remaining question, which I haven’t found the answer to, is wether one mirror is better figured than the other.

Louis, I’ve carefully considered the Explore FirstLight series scopes and concluded that while the trunnion altitude bearings likely smoother than the alternatives they’re greater exposure makes them more susceptible to the kind of damage I’m likely to inflict in transport.

So i just looked at the Orion website, the Skyquest is a 1270 focal length and a 251mm mirror.  The Skyline is 1250mm and 250mm mirror.  I dont see a reflectivity percentage on the Skyquest, Skyline is 94 to 96 percent.  The clutches work fine as long as you dont do anything crazy with them.  You will want some weights at some point to counter balance the scope.  After two years of use I have no issues recommending a Skyline.  I went through all this two years ago myself and was always getting the names backwards, i had to write it all down.  Someplace around here i have a piece of paper with all the differences between the GSO scopes. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Mike Q

[bosun21]

I would choose the Skyline as well if I hailed from the States. The addition of the dual speed focuser, 8x50 RACI, etc swings it for me.

[Spile]

It looks as though the Orion Skyline is the same as the Apertura AD8.

[Louis D]

29 minutes ago, Spile said:

It looks as though the Orion Skyline is the same as the Apertura AD8.

It is.  I can't quite figure out what the extra $100 for the Orion Skyline version buys you over the Apertura AD8 version.  Both have free shipping and charge sales tax.  The accessories are basically identical except that the AD8 includes a cheap moon filter.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Louis D said:

It is.  I can't quite figure out what the extra $100 for the Orion Skyline version buys you over the Apertura AD8 version.  Both have free shipping and charge sales tax.  The accessories are basically identical except that the AD8 includes a cheap moon filter.

If the info on the scopes is accurate the apertura mirror is a 93% mirror and Orion is 94 to 96%.  That is the only published difference that i have ever found 

[Mr Spock]

I'm not familiar with these brand names, but I know my GSO sourced StellaLyra 12" is still sharp at x461 in the right conditions.

Quality optics are what you should be aiming for. Anything else can be fixed/replaced/adjusted/fiddled into a non issue. What you can't fix are poor optics.

[Jim L]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

It is.  I can't quite figure out what the extra $100 for the Orion Skyline version buys you over the Apertura AD8 version.  Both have free shipping and charge sales tax.  The accessories are basically identical except that the AD8 includes a cheap moon filter.

Louis, in the 10” size I’m interested in the Apertura costs $950 and is on back-order, while the SkyLine costs $900 and is in stock.  The only difference I’m able to find is the Apertura includes a 35mm extension and the SkyLine does not.

https://www.highpointscientific.com/brands/apertura/apertura-ad10-10inch-dobsonian-telescope-ad10?rfsn=6699648.e10fc93&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=380212636&utm_content=1241348818236351&utm_term=highpointscientific&msclkid=ef3beb05fcfd1c6d63fa8f70d68135fc
 

https://www.telescope.com/SkyLine-10-Dobsonian-Reflector-Telescope/p/113095.uts

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Jim L said:

Louis, in the 10” size I’m interested in the Apertura costs $950 and is on back-order, while the SkyLine costs $900 and is in stock.  The only difference I’m able to find is the Apertura includes a 35mm extension and the SkyLine does not.

https://www.highpointscientific.com/brands/apertura/apertura-ad10-10inch-dobsonian-telescope-ad10?rfsn=6699648.e10fc93&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=380212636&utm_content=1241348818236351&utm_term=highpointscientific&msclkid=ef3beb05fcfd1c6d63fa8f70d68135fc
 

https://www.telescope.com/SkyLine-10-Dobsonian-Reflector-Telescope/p/113095.uts

Sounds like a plan as long as Monica is aware of the assembled weight and bulk.  10" Dobs are starting to get on the heavy/bulky side of things.  I think it breaks down into two major pieces fairly easily for transport.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Louis D

[jetstream]

@Jim L Having owned many dobs- my preferred telescope type- I would seriously look at this scope

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html

I think they are available in the USA from Explore Scientific. They have excellent bearings and carry very easy. A vg focuser too and the optics are up there from what Ive heard.

Had these been available years ago I would not have purchased my OOUK VX10.

Gerry

[Jim L]

15 hours ago, Louis D said:

Sounds like a plan as long as Monica is aware of the assembled weight and bulk.  10" Dobs are starting to get on the heavy/bulky side of things.  I think it breaks down into two major pieces fairly easily for transport.

It’s not Monica we should be concerned about!

[Jim L]

5 hours ago, jetstream said:

@Jim L Having owned many dobs- my preferred telescope type- I would seriously look at this scope

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html

I think they are available in the USA from Explore Scientific. They have excellent bearings and carry very easy. A vg focuser too and the optics are up there from what Ive heard.

Had these been available years ago I would not have purchased my OOUK VX10.

Gerry

Thanks, Gerry. Louis mentioned the Explore Scientific version earlier and I expressed my concern those exposed trunnions wouldn’t hold up to my clumsy handling, but I did look it over carefully. I really like that the mount uses quick-connects so that it can be easily disassembled and assembled for transport, but I was less impressed with the short travel of the focuser that some owners complained necessitates the placement and removal of a threaded on adapter when switching between eyepiece sizes. I’m sure it’s a fine instrument, but not necessarily the best for my purposes.

[Ratlet]

Think you're going to really enjoy the dob.  Sounds like it might be the same as the Stellalyra 10"?  That's what I've gotten.  My only regret with it was that I got allured by astrophotography at the start of this hobby and didn't buy one sooner.

I think you and Monica are on a winner.  I've yet to actually use the 35mm extension that came with my Stellalyra, so you'll probably not miss it.  

With regards to the weight and bulk, yes it is heavy and yes it is bulky, but you both have obviously used one and are aware but agree that is a small price to pay for the views (I agree, though i use a sack barrow to move mine).

I was going to have a night off.  A quiet night in, but all this talk of dobs has gotten my blood up and I'm going to pop out for a quick look at the moon!

[Jim L]

4 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Think you're going to really enjoy the dob.  Sounds like it might be the same as the Stellalyra 10"?  That's what I've gotten.  My only regret with it was that I got allured by astrophotography at the start of this hobby and didn't buy one sooner.

I think you and Monica are on a winner.  I've yet to actually use the 35mm extension that came with my Stellalyra, so you'll probably not miss it.  

With regards to the weight and bulk, yes it is heavy and yes it is bulky, but you both have obviously used one and are aware but agree that is a small price to pay for the views (I agree, though i use a sack barrow to move mine).

I was going to have a night off.  A quiet night in, but all this talk of dobs has gotten my blood up and I'm going to pop out for a quick look at the moon!

Ratlet, I’m certain that your Stellalyra 10” is the same Scope as the Orion Skyline 10” scope I ordered this afternoon. I hope you had an enjoyable evening observing the moon and in solidarity with you I will also forgo a quiet evening indoors and have a peek at the moon tonight.

[Louis D]

I'd have loved to have had a peek at the moon last night, but the mosquitos are swarming thanks to a very wet spring here.  I really need to move to a more arid climate to enjoy astronomy better.

[jetstream]

46 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I'd have loved to have had a peek at the moon last night, but the mosquitos are swarming thanks to a very wet spring here.  I really need to move to a more arid climate to enjoy astronomy better.

My sky right now is a blurry seething mess fueled by 30c temps and the lake evaporation. This combined with massive hatches of blackflies and mosquitos...  I like you am taking a lunar break lol

Gerry