Would you believe

[Lightfoot]

Would you believe its nearly 12 years since I first posted on here, and I have not posted since, is that a record?

At the time I was living in west London and busy with a new relationship (we have been married for 8 years now) being made redundant and moving to a new part of the country. Too busy for astronomy apparently 🤔.

 

Now I'm living in the middle of Dartmoor with darker skies than West London and I have decided to give it another go, my first telescope went awol during the move to Devon, never did find out what happened to it. So recommend me a new (or secondhand) set up with the following criteria in mind.

I'm now old and lazy and don't want to drag large , heavy equipment around, it wouldn't get used. It needs to be simple to set up with no complicated regimes to adhere to, collimation sounds like an inflamation of the bowels and I don't want to dabble with that. I'm interested in planets and galaxies and just might want to try astrphotography at some point.

 

I'm a blank canvas really, budget wise I'm happy to spend up to 2k but would like to spend less obviously as there is a serious risk of losing interest in short order or dying whichever comes first 💀🙃

Looking forward to see what comes up.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Elp]

There's loads of threads on here of people asking for scope/setup recommendations. And every recommendation is likely to be different.

You can go with a basic manual setup, but if you want to do AP then that will require something else.

A refractor is likely the best no fuss for you, but again if you want to do some serious imaging that that may require a different scope to simple visual.

If you just want to dabble and see what's in the skies, something like a Dwarf2 or a Seestar electronic imaging scope may be the way to go, the investment would also be minimal.

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Elp

[M40]

+1 for the seestar s50 or the dwarf. The moon should work but planets though, my guess would be they are a non starter.

[cajen2]

Welcome back, LF.

Hmmmm, planets and galaxies, easy to use and not too expensive, not heavy and maybe AP later. Well done: you've chosen six virtually mutually exclusive criteria! A scope good on planets is a something like a Mak - light and cheap but not the best on the deep sky stuff because of its smallish field of view. Galaxies, a large dob, which clearly you don't want. Perhaps your best compromises would be:

1. a medium-sized refractor. I have a 102mm ED Starfield on a go-to mount and it's a little gem. With a flattener/reducer it'd make a good AP scope as well, I think, though I don't do snaps so don't take my word for it! 😛

2. a medium-sized SCT of some description.

Are there any astro clubs near you that you could join? If you go along to one of their meets, they'd be happy to show you their gear and you could get an idea of what would suit you best.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Welcome back, LF.

Hmmmm, planets and galaxies, easy to use and not too expensive, not heavy and maybe AP later. Well done: you've chosen six virtually mutually exclusive criteria! A scope good on planets is a something like a Mak - light and cheap but not the best on the deep sky stuff because of its smallish field of view. Galaxies, a large dob, which clearly you don't want. Perhaps your best compromises would be:

1. a medium-sized refractor. I have a 102mm ED Starfield on a go-to mount and it's a little gem. With a flattener/reducer it'd make a good AP scope as well, I think, though I don't do snaps so don't take my word for it! 😛

2. a medium-sized SCT of some description.

Are there any astro clubs near you that you could join? If you go along to one of their meets, they'd be happy to show you their gear and you could get an idea of what would suit you best.

Where have i heard that sugges before, it is vaguely familiar for some reason 

[cajen2]

1 minute ago, Mike Q said:

Where have i heard that sugges before, it is vaguely familiar for some reason 

Because it's good advice! 😛😆

[900SL]

102mm f7 APO  from FLO, something similar to this, is IBS free. 

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p12878_TS-Optics-CF-APO-102-mm-f-7-FPL55-Triplet-APO-Refractor-with-Certificate.html

Stick a Barlow on it for longer fl, or a reducer fkattener for a faster APO imaging scope

 

[Xsubmariner]

It would help if you could quantify what constitutes an acceptable weight of equipment and what level of AP; lucky imaging using mobile phone connected to eyepiece, non-cooled camera replacing eyepiece with some form of live stacking or cooled camera with long exposures?

[happy-kat]

If you don't want my to spend time post processing images then live stacking with an astro camera might work for you. 

[Lightfoot]

Some very good suggestions, so many thanks. I had never heard of the Dwarf or the Seestar but I really like the size of both of them, these are probably the kind of thing I had in mind but just didn't know it. I don't want to have to move an 8 or 10 inch Dob, I have already said that mysteries like collimation are not for me so maybe a refractor on a motorised eq mount but even that has it's drawbacks in terms of portability and setting up.

I will do some research on the Dwarf and Seestar as they look similar but are two different beasts. I need to find images from both and user reviews for ease of use.

Thanks again for everybodys input.

[M40]

Just to help in your searches, the seestar s50 is a new product due for release early July and the dwarf has been around a while now. Here is a discussion from this site...

Currently the seestar is at an early bird price so expect that to go up late June. At the top end of this type of telescope are the unistella and vaonis telescopes. 

[Elp]

If you want to go down the imaging route, putting together a camera lens system isn't too much hassle either, can usually lift the whole rig with one hand too. The Samyang 135mm ED F2 is an excellent lens. Budget will be 1500-2000 though, save a bit on used equipment. Obviously won't be able to image planets or small targets.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Elp

[CHR15]

Hi lightfoot,

I have literally just started electronically assisted astronomy. It involves a telescope, a motorised mount, a camera and a laptop, tablet or phone.

Days are gone now of bending over to get a comfortable view in the eyepiece or straining my eyes trying to find targets, which I couldn't find most of the time as they were either to faint or because of bad light pollution.

I went for the asi air plus as the computer as it has everything set up and ready to go out of the box (the red box sitting on top of the telescope in the photo). It also connects to your phone via a wireless connection. You can sit inside and view the images as they come through if you wanted to.

My set up can easily be carried from one place to another without any hassle at all.

It is a skywatcher 70mm refractor, skywatcher azgti mount, skywatcher wedge, zwo asi air plus and a zwo asi585mc. I only observe in the back garden for now but it's possible to buy a battery that will power the rig out in the field if you want to go mobile. This is well within your budget and you will see alot more than visual astronomy, plus its also an introduction to astrophotography.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by CHR15

[Marvin Jenkins]

39 minutes ago, CHR15 said:

Hi lightfoot,

I have literally just started electronically assisted astronomy. It involves a telescope, a motorised mount, a camera and a laptop, tablet or phone.

Days are gone now of bending over to get a comfortable view in the eyepiece or straining my eyes trying to find targets, which I couldn't find most of the time as they were either to faint or because of bad light pollution.

I went for the asi air plus as the computer as it has everything set up and ready to go out of the box (the red box sitting on top of the telescope in the photo). It also connects to your phone via a wireless connection. You can sit inside and view the images as they come through if you wanted to.

My set up can easily be carried from one place to another without any hassle at all.

It is a skywatcher 70mm refractor, skywatcher azgti mount, skywatcher wedge, zwo asi air plus and a zwo asi585mc. I only observe in the back garden for now but it's possible to buy a battery that will power the rig out in the field if you want to go mobile. This is well within your budget and you will see alot more than visual astronomy, plus its also an introduction to astrophotography.

 

There is something about your whole setup and ethos that makes me recoil.

Then I think about it for about three seconds and the other non conformist side of my head says “work of pure genius”.

How do I dislike and love it all at the same time? I guess I can see the future coming and it looks good as long as I can stop thinking about ‘how it used to be done’.

Just think of the savings on EPs. Teleview are out of business.

Marv

[Elp]

There's a place for visual and AP. I do both but AP 90pc of the time due to circumstance. Very little chance of seeing anything DSO due to light pollution, not even closed clusters. Doubt aperture increase will do anything either, I've gone up to 6 inch. With a camera all it takes is 10-30 seconds and it's there on screen. But seeing it with your own eyes sticks with you more, especially when you star hop to find them.

[Paz]

If you want a general purpose visual observing scope but a 8-10" dobsonian is not for you then I would recommend a 4" refractor. That kind of size (e.g. 102mm f7) is easy to to handle - bigger refractors than that rapidly become serious in size/weight, and smaller apertures whilst easier to travel with due to being smaller are (imo) no easier/faster to set up if you are at home. The reason for that suggestion is it would do a bit of everything well (accepting the limitations of the aperture). My reasons for not suggesting other scopes would be...

SCT - longer focal length so slightly more specialist towards higher magnifications (but to be fair a smallish SCT would fit the vast majority of targets into the field of view), workload collimating it from time to time, longer cool down, possibly having to get into dew shields which is further workload.

Maksutov - longer focal length so more specialist towards higher magnifications, much longer cool down, possibly having to get into dew shields which is further workload. (I would add I really like Maksutovs and once set up and onto a target they are absolutely winning, and I don't like it when they get criticised, but if practicality and ease of use are key criteria then Maksutovs have some challenges compared to a refractor). 

Smaller (say 6") newtonian - workload collimating it, longer cool down (maybe not much longer?), eyepiece height / orientation challenges depending on how you mount it, a 150mm obstructed scope is more aperture than a 102mm refractor for light grasp but other than faint fuzzies where the aperture simply wins the refractor will hold up well.

I'm just a visual observer and so my comments don't take into account photography pros and cons. 

I read with interest the suggestion about electronically assisted observing from @CHR15 , I don't know much about that but that also looks a good option for something that is easy to handle and can cover a lot of ground.

[CHR15]

On 11/05/2023 at 21:36, Marvin Jenkins said:

There is something about your whole setup and ethos that makes me recoil.

Then I think about it for about three seconds and the other non conformist side of my head says “work of pure genius”.

How do I dislike and love it all at the same time? I guess I can see the future coming and it looks good as long as I can stop thinking about ‘how it used to be done’.

Just think of the savings on EPs. Teleview are out of business.

Marv

Technology is always changing. I made the change because we have that much cloud and light pollution that I don't have much time to find and observe targets. And the fact you see much more without straining your eyes!

[CHR15]

On 12/05/2023 at 09:36, Paz said:

If you want a general purpose visual observing scope but a 8-10" dobsonian is not for you then I would recommend a 4" refractor. That kind of size (e.g. 102mm f7) is easy to to handle - bigger refractors than that rapidly become serious in size/weight, and smaller apertures whilst easier to travel with due to being smaller are (imo) no easier/faster to set up if you are at home. The reason for that suggestion is it would do a bit of everything well (accepting the limitations of the aperture). My reasons for not suggesting other scopes would be...

SCT - longer focal length so slightly more specialist towards higher magnifications (but to be fair a smallish SCT would fit the vast majority of targets into the field of view), workload collimating it from time to time, longer cool down, possibly having to get into dew shields which is further workload.

Maksutov - longer focal length so more specialist towards higher magnifications, much longer cool down, possibly having to get into dew shields which is further workload. (I would add I really like Maksutovs and once set up and onto a target they are absolutely winning, and I don't like it when they get criticised, but if practicality and ease of use are key criteria then Maksutovs have some challenges compared to a refractor). 

Smaller (say 6") newtonian - workload collimating it, longer cool down (maybe not much longer?), eyepiece height / orientation challenges depending on how you mount it, a 150mm obstructed scope is more aperture than a 102mm refractor for light grasp but other than faint fuzzies where the aperture simply wins the refractor will hold up well.

I'm just a visual observer and so my comments don't take into account photography pros and cons. 

I read with interest the suggestion about electronically assisted observing from @CHR15 , I don't know much about that but that also looks a good option for something that is easy to handle and can cover a lot of ground.

I don't know much about e.a.a either. I basically type the target into goto and then press the camera button and wait for the details in the photo to come through. With each photo taken and automatically stacked the details get better and better.

[Lightfoot]

On 11/05/2023 at 20:50, CHR15 said:

Hi lightfoot,

I have literally just started electronically assisted astronomy. It involves a telescope, a motorised mount, a camera and a laptop, tablet or phone.

Days are gone now of bending over to get a comfortable view in the eyepiece or straining my eyes trying to find targets, which I couldn't find most of the time as they were either to faint or because of bad light pollution.

I went for the asi air plus as the computer as it has everything set up and ready to go out of the box (the red box sitting on top of the telescope in the photo). It also connects to your phone via a wireless connection. You can sit inside and view the images as they come through if you wanted to.

My set up can easily be carried from one place to another without any hassle at all.

It is a skywatcher 70mm refractor, skywatcher azgti mount, skywatcher wedge, zwo asi air plus and a zwo asi585mc. I only observe in the back garden for now but it's possible to buy a battery that will power the rig out in the field if you want to go mobile. This is well within your budget and you will see alot more than visual astronomy, plus its also an introduction to astrophotography.

 

 

 

Hi CHR 15

Having had the time to do some reading, I'm really leaning towards a set up similar to yours. The Dwarf 2 just doesn't inspire me and the Seestar doesn't start shipping until August, if then. I notice that you do not use a motorised focuser or filter wheel, do you not need them?

No counter balance either so I assume that the weight is well within the mounts capabilities.

[Elp]

Its always advised to use a counterweight because if the scope moves east or west to the max you might shift the centre of gravity and the whole thing may topple over. A counterweight also puts less stress on the driver gears within the mount. A lot depends on the rigidity of the tripod. Harmonic drive mounts can get away with no counterweights because of their internal design, but even heavy loads still recommend counterweights for the centre of gravity reason. Have a look at the azgti owners thread, a lot of us use this mount for various things as well as AP.

[AstroMuni]

On 09/05/2023 at 19:17, Lightfoot said:

I'm interested in planets and galaxies and just might want to try astrphotography at some point.

How about something like a MAK, something like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock/skywatcher-skymax-127-eq3-2.html

This would leave you some budget to get decent eyepieces etc.

[CHR15]

2 hours ago, Lightfoot said:

Hi CHR 15

Having had the time to do some reading, I'm really leaning towards a set up similar to yours. The Dwarf 2 just doesn't inspire me and the Seestar doesn't start shipping until August, if then. I notice that you do not use a motorised focuser or filter wheel, do you not need them?

No counter balance either so I assume that the weight is well within the mounts capabilities.

As I'm still new I don't know much about the different filters but I've not used any and I just focus on a bright star before starting. I guess they can be added at a later date if you wanted them. 

Oops, I forgot to put the counterweight on 😆 I set it up to show you how compact eea can be. I only use a 1 kg counter weight, the ao70500 doesn't weigh anything, I bought a new to me st80 recently and this lightweight too.

With all the photos being took of the supernova in m101 I had to go and have a look!

bearing in mind this is from an eaa perspective and not been through photoshop, gimp, etc.

[Carbon Brush]

Just to be awkward......
A reflector gives more view for your ££ spent than other options.
Collimation is not half as bad as some make out. Very much over thought in many cases.
A 6" reflector is easy to handle. Many on SGL use a Skywatcher 130 (nearly 6") for photography.
Why not buy a used 6" reflector and have a play? That will give you feel for what is involved.
If you don't like it, then you can sell it on for little loss.

Welcome back and enjoy the choosing.

David.

[wookie1965]

My first scope was a 150p on a eq3-2 mount had it for 3 years had so much fun with it I upgraded to a 200p on a EQ5 goto. 

I sold the 200p and I so regret it, I have a couple of refractors now and a 10" dob. 

[M40]

If eea is starting to make you think Lightfoot, have a look through the eea reports section on the site 👌

I have a similar setup to CHR15 and the grin factor is always there when something pops up on the screen after just a few seconds. I have used my 85mm refractor on the azgti with eq wedge and it just manages, I wouldn't go heavier on that mount. I mount the asiair off the telescope which does keep the weight down a smidgeon.  And like CHR15, I don't use filters or reducers so about as simple as it gets. All the best.