First proper nights observing with with my very basic setup.

[LaurenceT]

I decided to follow the YT video on a simple home made so-called "smart telescope" by Cuiv and after faffing about for a few days with wifi I abandoned that and last night finally got to test the rig using stacking in Stellarmate. I already had most of the gear, all I needed was a Raspberry Pi and some cables. The setup consisted of an Evoguide 50ED, a ZWO ASI224mc camera mounted on an Az GTi controlled by the Pi.

Although the moon was already washing out my light polluted skies I saw the Whale galaxy, Bodes galaxy and the Beehive cluster. I also saw various globular clusters. I'm pleased with this so far and I will use some different scopes and a different camera soon.

[PeterC65]

One of the advantages of EAA is that you can still observe with light pollution, and when the Moon is bright. Observing close to the Moon isn't great (bright patches around the edges of the image) but since you don't need to be dark adapted you can still observe objects further away from the Moon.

All of your scopes, except the Dob and perhaps the Mak, would be good for EAA.

 

[LaurenceT]

3 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

One of the advantages of EAA is that you can still observe with light pollution, and when the Moon is bright. Observing close to the Moon isn't great (bright patches around the edges of the image) but since you don't need to be dark adapted you can still observe objects further away from the Moon.

All of your scopes, except the Dob and perhaps the Mak, would be good for EAA.

 

Being an absolute novice at astronomy and an elderly one at that I think that this will revolutionise my observing and learning where stuff is in the sky. I'll now be able to observe distant objects that normally could only be viewed with large, heavy and in some cases very expensive telescopes and eyepieces.

I was struck how easy it was last night to get going, levelling the mount and scope and pointing north took a couple of minutes and the Stellarmate app was taking me to targets within another couple of minutes. The app can be a bit flaky and getting the app to control the mount by WiFi was an exercise in futility.

I've got no plans to use EEVA as a crossover to astrophotography, I already have gear for that but it's interesting to see how controversial that can be.

[bosun21]

8 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

All of your scopes, except the Dob

The dobsonian is a  capable scope for EEVA as long as you have it on an equatorial platform. There’s a YouTube channel called “Dobsonian Power “ where he is having great results with his 12” & 8” dobsonians. There’s also folk on here using dobsonians. He uses a ASI294MC camera.

[PeterC65]

24 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

The dobsonian is a  capable scope for EEVA as long as you have it on an equatorial platform. There’s a YouTube channel called “Dobsonian Power “ where he is having great results with his 12” & 8” dobsonians. There’s also folk on here using dobsonians. He uses a ASI294MC camera.

It sounded like the Dob was manual, hence my comment. A Dob with tracking would be good for EEVA.

I think that EEVA benefits from bigger aperture just like visual. Many people use smaller aperture scopes but mostly because they are more convenient it seems. You can see so much more with EEVA that there isn't the same aperture fever that there is with visual.

I still hanker after a 12" GOTO Dob I might add.

 

[bosun21]

5 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

It sounded like the Dob was manual, hence my comment. A Dob with tracking would be good for EEVA.

I think that EEVA benefits from bigger aperture just like visual. Many people use smaller aperture scopes but mostly because they are more convenient it seems. You can see so much more with EEVA that there isn't the same aperture fever that there is with visual.

I still hanker after a 12" GOTO Dob I might add.

 

I agree with you about EEVA and I am seriously considering starting again. I basically have everything I need apart from the camera. What do you think about a dual band filter for EEVA?

[Ratlet]

There was a really good video on imaging with a newtonian on the astroimaging channel a couple days ago.  The guy was doing proper astroimaging, but his exposures are something like 8 seconds which puts it in the realms of eaa.  He talks about using filters towards the end.

fascinating video.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Ratlet

[PeterC65]

12 hours ago, bosun21 said:

What do you think about a dual band filter for EEVA?

I currently use an Astronomik UHC filter for EEVA and find it useful when observing nebulae, but it doesn't cut IR and my camera is quite sensitive to IR so I have been considering alternatives. I think the Optolong L-eNhance is probably the best of the bunch. The L-eXtreme and L-Ulitmate would be too narrow band for EEVA I think (great for AP though).

My problem is that I focus manually and try to focus just once at the start of a session, so my filter wheel needs to be parfocal, using all Astronomik filters. I'm very happy with all but the UHC filter and the cost of switching the whole set to Optolong is a bit excessive, and some of the replacements are hard to find. I understand that Astronomik are working on a UHC filter with IR cut so I'm waiting for that to arrive, hopefully before the start of the autumn season.

The other filters in my EEVA filter wheel are Clear, Luminance L2 (there are times when no filter is best and times when visible light is best), UHC, OIII (great for the Veil), and IR Pass 742nm (great for the Moon and Planets).

 

[LaurenceT]

One thing that simply didn't occur to me when I recently started astrophotography was the use of spacers when including filters in the optical train. Would the use of such a spacer improve the visual quality of EEA observation or is this not so critical?

[PeterC65]

41 minutes ago, LaurenceT said:

One thing that simply didn't occur to me when I recently started astrophotography was the use of spacers when including filters in the optical train. Would the use of such a spacer improve the visual quality of EEA observation or is this not so critical?

I'm not sure what you mean by using spacers with filters. I don't use spacers with my filter wheel. The only time I use spacers is to set the correct back focus when using a x0.6 reducer.

Could you explain what you do with filters and spacers for AP?

 

 

[Ratlet]

13 hours ago, bosun21 said:

I agree with you about EEVA and I am seriously considering starting again. I basically have everything I need apart from the camera. What do you think about a dual band filter for EEVA?

Not tried true EAA yet, however I picked up the SV220 filter from SVBONY which is a 7nm dual band.  I was intending on trying it with astrophotgraphy, however my mount went bonkers during the session and I ended up only getting 10 minutes of data (10x 1 minute subs)  on the horsehead with a 135mm F3.5 (Stopped to F4 or F5.6, can't remember).  This would have been gathered during with the moon 3/4 illuminated. 

I've attached a stacked image from siril with only an autostretch and rough colour calibration applied. 

[LaurenceT]

7 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I'm not sure what you mean by using spacers with filters. I don't use spacers with my filter wheel. The only time I use spacers is to set the correct back focus when using a x0.6 reducer.

Could you explain what you do with filters and spacers for AP?

 

 

The question came up when I was having some problems with my Askar FM180 and spacers were discussed, I don't use a filter wheel. I then did some research and saw this YT video which explained things more clearly for me.

https://youtu.be/iyDECOauzew

 

[Ratlet]

@LaurenceT did you save any of the images you got?  I'd be interested to see what you are getting with your setup.

[LaurenceT]

17 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

@LaurenceT did you save any of the images you got?  I'd be interested to see what you are getting with your setup.

I'll have a look later.

[bosun21]

5 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I'm not sure what you mean by using spacers with filters. I don't use spacers with my filter wheel. The only time I use spacers is to set the correct back focus when using a x0.6 reducer.

Could you explain what you do with filters and spacers for AP?

 

 

I think he is talking about the filter thickness changing the back focus slightly. At least that’s what I read into it.

[LaurenceT]

16 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

I think he is talking about the filter thickness changing the back focus slightly. At least that’s what I read into it.

Yep, that's it.

[PeterC65]

9 hours ago, LaurenceT said:

The question came up when I was having some problems with my Askar FM180 and spacers were discussed, I don't use a filter wheel. I then did some research and saw this YT video which explained things more clearly for me.

https://youtu.be/iyDECOauzew

 

Adding a filter does move the focus point backwards by 1/3 of the thickness of the filter glass but I think that only matters when the filter sits between a lens and the camera sensor, without a focuser in between. So if you're using a reducer or flattener, when the filter sits between that and the camera sensor you do need to take account of the extra back focus needed. But if the filter is fitted to the camera and both are fitted to the focuser, so with the filter between the scopes lens(es) and the camera sensor and the focuser in between, then any change in the back focus is taken up by the focuser.

I take account of the filter only when I use the filter wheel with the x0.6 reducer, so then the order of kit is:

Scope / Focuser / Reducer / Filter (Wheel) / Camera

The reducer needs 55mm of back focus but I add 1/3 mm for the filter. I actually add more than this because the camera also has a glass window. And actually I use a back focus of 56.5mm because with the filter wheel that's the closest I can get it! For EEVA I don't think the extra mm makes a difference.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by PeterC65

[PeterC65]

9 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Not tried true EAA yet, however I picked up the SV220 filter from SVBONY which is a 7nm dual band.  I was intending on trying it with astrophotgraphy, however my mount went bonkers during the session and I ended up only getting 10 minutes of data (10x 1 minute subs)  on the horsehead with a 135mm F3.5 (Stopped to F4 or F5.6, can't remember).  This would have been gathered during with the moon 3/4 illuminated. 

I've attached a stacked image from siril with only an autostretch and rough colour calibration applied. 

Seeing the Horsehead still makes me smile when I do EEVA. As a child it was the first DSO I came to know about and I've always wanted to see it. Visually for me there is no sign of it, nor of the Flame Nebula for that matter, but using EEVA the whole group of objects just pops out. I love trying to get a better view on the night, and with a little post process tweaking I've managed to get some nice images. Here's my best attempt so far.

I like what you've managed to achieve with a 135mm lens. I have just brought a bracket to attach my DSLR with its telephoto lens to my scope mount and am hoping for a similar widefield view of Orion come the Winter.

 

 

 

[Jules Tohpipi]

Guys, just as an aside, I wanted to say how much I’m enjoying reading and following your recent discussions on EAA. It’s really informative and inspiring. 
 

I intend to pull the trigger shortly on a 585 camera and join the club. Prefer to do the learning curve now the nights are not so cold. 
 

I appreciate the images won’t be as good during the forthcoming lighter nights but would I be correct in thinking it won’t be a total washout? I’m mainly interested in live viewing DSOs on alt-az mounts. If OK I’ll jump now rather than waiting for the autumn. Don’t want to de-rail the thread - just wondering if worthwhile to start this time of year. 
 

Keep up the good work. You’ve got an enthralled audience 😀

[Martin Meredith]

It won't be a total washout. One of the benefits of EAA is that reasonable results can be obtained in conditions that would be considered marginal or near-impossible visually. To give an idea, I generally align my scope during twilight and then do a goto to a nearby object to check alignment, and it is surprising how good the view is even though the sky is nowhere near dark. It's worth choosing your objects carefully though, as faint galaxies may indeed be washed out, though brighter ones will still show structure. Good targets are open clusters -- fortunately plentiful during the summer -- and globs, also in season. (I use alt-az too)

good luck!

[PeterC65]

11 hours ago, Jules Tohpipi said:

Guys, just as an aside, I wanted to say how much I’m enjoying reading and following your recent discussions on EAA. It’s really informative and inspiring. 
 

I intend to pull the trigger shortly on a 585 camera and join the club. Prefer to do the learning curve now the nights are not so cold. 
 

I appreciate the images won’t be as good during the forthcoming lighter nights but would I be correct in thinking it won’t be a total washout? I’m mainly interested in live viewing DSOs on alt-az mounts. If OK I’ll jump now rather than waiting for the autumn. Don’t want to de-rail the thread - just wondering if worthwhile to start this time of year. 
 

Keep up the good work. You’ve got an enthralled audience 😀

Good to hear you are joining the EAA crowd. It was a complete revelation to me. There are relatively few of us on SGL and I'd encourage everyone who does EAA to post their experiences and question in the EEVA Forums.

I think the IMX585 based cameras are exceptional. I have the Uranus-C, the Player One version. Possibly the best camera under £1000.

As @Martin Meredith mentions, EAA doesn't need you to be dark adapted so you can observe when the nights are brighter, when there is light pollution, and when the Moon is bright. All of the visual rules still apply, more aperture gives better results, faint objects need darkness, the Moon can wash out objects close by, but you will see so much more via EAA that it compensates for these things.

Since you're just starting, my best piece of advice is check out as much as possible in daylight as there is a a lot of kit to get working together. Record the infinity focus position and set that up on the night so the kit is approximately in focus before you start.

 

[Ratlet]

14 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

Seeing the Horsehead still makes me smile when I do EEVA. As a child it was the first DSO I came to know about and I've always wanted to see it. Visually for me there is no sign of it, nor of the Flame Nebula for that matter, but using EEVA the whole group of objects just pops out. I love trying to get a better view on the night, and with a little post process tweaking I've managed to get some nice images. Here's my best attempt so far.

I like what you've managed to achieve with a 135mm lens. I have just brought a bracket to attach my DSLR with its telephoto lens to my scope mount and am hoping for a similar widefield view of Orion come the Winter.

 

 

 

Thanks very much.  That's a cracking image of the horsehead.

The only thing that stops me doing pure EAA is that I am really enjoying visual and so far have tried to milk every available minute at the scope.  That being said I usually don't spend too long on a target for my images and don't have the patience to do lots of processing.  I usually load up NINA in at the start of the session witha list of targets and then leave it doing it's thing.  Quick stack, stretch and noise removal and call it good.  I think I might lean more into shorter duration and more targets.  Or even try nights of pure EAA.  My work schedule means I don't really get observing time when the moon isn't some flavour of full and I'd probablyget more out of DSO by doing EAA.

[PeterC65]

6 hours ago, Ratlet said:

The only thing that stops me doing pure EAA is that I am really enjoying visual and so far have tried to milk every available minute at the scope.  That being said I usually don't spend too long on a target for my images and don't have the patience to do lots of processing.  I usually load up NINA in at the start of the session witha list of targets and then leave it doing it's thing.  Quick stack, stretch and noise removal and call it good.  I think I might lean more into shorter duration and more targets.  Or even try nights of pure EAA.  My work schedule means I don't really get observing time when the moon isn't some flavour of full and I'd probablyget more out of DSO by doing EAA.

I still do visual, as I still enjoy seeing the light from distant objects with my own eyes, and there is something nice about being under the stars. But I find that EAA gives me more opportunities to observe and for longer. Doing visual, when the Moon is bright I feel like I can only observe it (I'm not a fan of double stars), and after a couple of hours outside in the cold my brain stops working. With EAA I can still observe the usual range of DSOs even when the Moon is bright, and being mostly inside, the sessions can last all evening.

I either set up for visual or for EAA. I try to keep the EAA sessions as live as I would for visual. So I might have a target list but I select each one via Stellarium, usually plate solve then centre the object manually using a live view, then watch as the live stack builds up, usually for no more than five minutes. Sometimes I let the live stack continue for longer if the object looks like it might offer more detail, and while I'm deciding which object to observe next.

 

[Jonathan_Shields]

Just to weigh in you can definitely do EAA with a goto dob. I've had a great time with a 6 inch and a ZWO 585. I have seen great views of things using EAA that i can hardly see at all in my 8 inch manual dob visually.

The cloudy nights forum has a monthly EAA challenge which i have enjoyed and Dobsonian Power is a good channel....he has loads of videos on EAA with dobsonians.

Spacers are really for situations where you need more backfocus particularly when you start using a focal reducer. Personally i dont bother i like to keep it simple but I know a lot of people get good results with a reducer like the Nexus.

Enjoy EAA!

[Jules Tohpipi]

Well, thank you very much for the great comments everyone. It's really reassured and encouraged me to start right away. So much so the order has been placed now for the ZWO version of the IMX 585 along with a UV/IR filter that FLO recommended. Chris at FLO was extremely helpful answering some newbie questions about the camera's suitability with my scopes. I was perhaps more tempted by the Uranus-C equivalent which I've read much about also; however, being brand new to using astro cameras I've played it safer(less hassle) in local support terms by going for the ZWO.  

Think I'm on a similar trajectory to you all. I've experience with visual over the decades, albeit recently coming out of a longish observing break. But the accessibility and affordability of EAA seems to have improved beyond all recognition. Despite owning the biggish dob, I was always slightly disappointed to some degree observing DSOs from a small town site. However now it seems, with some patience and learning, possible to obtain live images somewhat approaching the ones I'd marvelled at in books as a 70s/80s kid. Plus there's the convenience element that appeals and something else to be looking at when the planets are not in the right positions.

So I'm really looking forward to supplementing the visual side of things with the EAA. I would never have been aware nor contemplated it were it not for the SGL community

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Jules Tohpipi