Baader Maxbright Binoviewer

[ukskies]

Hi all, after reading several members posts on the benefits of Binoviewers I'm thinking of getting one of these to complement my 100mm frac mainly for Lunar and planetary use. I do like the Baader stuff as it is good quality so I immediately looked at these even though there are less expensive options. The scope is very sharp and I don't wish to compromise the higher powered views. Although it is primarily for the FC100 there is no reason to not use it on my other scopes too.

I know many of you have Binoviewers and I'm hoping that you will convince me one way or the other as to the best accessories to enhance my viewing. I have a few questions that I would like to ask.

1. I believe many use Barlows and longer focal length eyepieces so do any of you use the Baader glasspath correctors or just generic Barlows. do you use cheap or more premium eyepieces?

2. I already have a Baader mkIV 8-24 zoom and could easily pick up a second for bino use, any thoughts on this? 

3. As the bino itself is over £400 I do need to carefully consider what accessories I buy to go with it so are there any good but less expensive options that you can recommend.

4. How firm is the diopter adjustment on these? Baader suggest the mkIV zoom to be a good pairing but I'm concerned that rotating the zoom ring might disturb the diopter setting.

5. I have a T2 prism diagonal and I believe the viewer will couple directly to this. Does anyone know if the glasspath correctors would still work in this arrangement?

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by ukskies

[Highburymark]

1. The Baader GPCs are designed to iron out aberrations from the binoviewer, and they are very sharp, so best to use those, at least when you’re staring out. You can use any eyepieces - they all work well. The best I use are 25mm Leica and Zeiss microscope eyepieces, but simple Plossls and orthos or widefields also work well.

2. MkIV would be a good way to start - just check you can use them comfortably as they have a wide top, and there might be ergonomic/comfort issues. See what others say on this - I haven’t used them for binoviewing.    
3. If you already have a T2 diagonal, you’re pretty much there - I’d just get a heavy duty changer system and some T2 spacers/adapters so you can reach focus and vary the power with GOcs/barlows.    
5. yes - no problem.

It’s a very nice binoviewer and works beautifully, so you can invest with confidence.

[Franklin]

The Baader prism diagonal you already have is designed to be used with the Maxbright II and GPC's. The GPC fits into the top of the diagonal before you directly connect the binoviewer. Heavy duty changer system is handy if you're changing GPC's a lot. I used a pair of MkIV zooms for a while and being "clickstop" had no problem with that affecting the diopter adjustment, though they were a little too wide for my big conk!

[Space Hopper]

Hi

1. I just use the Baader GPCs. I have the 3 of them (1.25, 1.7, 2.6x) FYI, the 1.7x is actually closer to 1.5x but don't worry too much about that.

They will 'buy you back' 20mm, 35mm, 65mm of light path respectively +/-   and will also correct for spherochromatism. They are well designed and work very well.

Note : both the 1.25x and 1.7x gpc screw into the back of the viewer, not the diagonal. Only the 2.6x gpc  screws into the prism.

I use Tv Panoptics (some second hand) for low / mid power and APM flat fields 15mm for higher powers. I wouldn't go much lower than 10mm though, but don't need to with the 2.6x gpc.

2. I've tried using a pair of Baader zooms  but i found them too big and unwieldy. I much prefer smaller eyepieces for binoviewing, but that can be just a personal thing.

3. I think the Max 2 is pretty good value all things considered ; you say you like Baader stuff and you have that comprehensive T2 compatibility. It will hold its value pretty well too.

4. The diopters and mini clicklock clamps are beautifully designed, and set a benchmark. You won't have any issues there.

5. You already have the T2 prism, so everything will be fine. Use the quick coupler to attach bino to diagonal, its much easier.

Please let us know how you get along, and post a few photos and a report of your endeavours  🙂 Trust me, when you first look at the moon through them it will all be worthwhile 🙂

 

[ukskies]

Thank you all for your detailed replies so far.

You have pre empted my main concern with the mkIV zoom, and that is it's diameter. The eyecups are large, 55mm diameter I think, and I think my inter pupillary distance is 62mm leaving only 7mm gap for my nose. I just thought it would be something worth trying as I do like the ability of the zoom to adjust to the variable seeing I get quite often.

You have also alleviated my concern about the prism diagonal. I fitted it with a helical focuser to help at higher powers and before I fitted it I remember the prism being very close and didn't think there would be room for a GPC without hitting the prism.

Rob, I think those APM flat fields are the same eyepice as the FLO Stella Lyra UFF's? If so I was considering pairs of those for Lunar and planetary. I already have the 30mm which is a very impressive piece of glass.

Finally I had only really thought of Lunar and planetary for the binoviewer but is it also good for brighter deep sky objects too?

[Space Hopper]

4 hours ago, ukskies said:

 

Rob, I think those APM flat fields are the same eyepice as the FLO Stella Lyra UFF's? If so I was considering pairs of those for Lunar and planetary. I already have the 30mm which is a very impressive piece of glass.

Finally I had only really thought of Lunar and planetary for the binoviewer but is it also good for brighter deep sky objects too?

Yes, thats correct. They are one and the same. Good eyepieces for binoviewing, very ergonomical and a good price too.

I also have a 12mm pair from a discontinued line that were even cheaper. I don't use them alot as they are a bit too powerful for my local sky's.

I use the bino's for most types of visual viewing, but use mono eyepieces as well.

Bino is good for Lunar and planets of course, but I think they are just as good at the brighter DSOs. I'm a bit limited here with what I can see in my Bortle 7 lightshow.

[mikeDnight]

I bought a Maxbright II a little under two months ago and love it. I have however been bino viewing the Moon and planets since 2008 using a cheaper end Revelation Binoviewer. The Revelation cheap option was very impressive and compared to top end planetary TMB super monocentrics proved to perform at a different level all together, leaving the superb mono lagging noticeably behind.  The Maxbright is itself in a different league to the Revelation, not just mechanically, but optically much better.   I've never used a gpc but have used a 2X barlow on the nose of the binoviewer. The increased distance between the barlow and eyepieces amplifies approximately 4X if you use a 2X barlow. My scope is a FC100DZ and when using the maxbright without a barlow, I can see no obvious aberrations, and also none with a barlow.  Personally I've found good plossl's and ortho's give excellent views, and because of their relatively small physical size and minimal glass they don't add too much weight or bulk to an already quite heavy binoviewer.  Using both eyes makes it easier to see fine lunar and subtle planetary detail as you're doubling your retina area. You obviously can't increase the resolution of your scope but it certainly feels like you can, as detail on the limit of visibility with one eye becomes obvious when using two.

Edited May 1, 2023 by mikeDnight

[ukskies]

Thanks again Rob, and Mike.

Mike your post has now made me think about the magnifying effect of Barlows which I wasn't considering.

A 2x Barlow giving nearly 4x magnification? No wonder so many people are using 20mm eyepieces for planetary with binoviewers, I was aware that putting a Barlow in front of the diagonal say will mean greater mag than when it's close to the eyepiece but the penny hadn't dropped, DOH!🤦‍♂️

That brings up another question now. I'd imagine that the glasspath correctors operate at the stated magnification as they are designed for the binoviewer but I'm wondering now if this is actually the case?

I'm also considering a future purchase of an Extender Q which is 1.6x and sits in the drawtube in front of the diagonal, I'm wondering now how this will magnify the image through a binoviewer?

Is there a formula for calculating this magnifying effect does anyone know?

[Stu]

I echo the comments on the MaxBright Mark II; beautifully designed and executed and optically superb. It’s great when a company clearly looks at the market and feedback and comes up with something that addresses everything. I had a pair of the original Maxbrights and really didn’t get on with them; the eyepiece holders we cumbersome and I could never get the images to align consistently. With the Clicklock adapters on the Mark IIs there are no problems at all.

Calculating magnification when using barlowed and binoviewers is certainly possible, but not something I’ve managed to achieve with any sort of accuracy! I normally use a x1.7 GPC, but then add the Barlow element from an AP Barcon on the front of the binoviewers. Let’s take the x1.5 given earlier in this thread, and just assume x2 from the Barlow, with 25mm orthos that gives (740x1.5x2)/25 = x89. In reality, the Barlow is likely to be giving more like x4, so we are at x178. I then sometimes adds couple of 2” spacers to push the power up even more, could easily be over x300 but I really don’t know!

There used to be a chap called Yong, @YKSE who was on the forum and who was excellent at calculating these sorts of magnifications. If you are still around Yong, do check in 👍👍

I mainly use my binoviewers for high power viewing, preferring single eyepieces for low and medium powers. They are fabulous for Lunar and Solar and I’m 50/50 on their use for planetary observing; I tend to see more with a single eyepiece but my floaters are far better controlled with binoviewers.

I hope you enjoy yours 👍

[Highburymark]

Two things I’ve only recently discovered about the Maxbright II and GPCs:

First - relevant to Mike’s post above, the aberration correcting properties of the GPCs apparently aren’t required above F/7 - it’s faster scopes that need them. 

And second - I used to have a Baader MkV binoviewer, which required the 1.7x GPC to be inserted into the BV. However, using the same GPC 1.7x inserted into the MBII produced clearly soft views. So I tried fitting it into the diagonal (ie turning round the GPC), and it sharpened up nicely. So I wondered whether the elements have been swapped in the newer 1.7x GPCs which are designed to fit into the silver dovetail of the MBII? Worth experimenting if anyone’s getting less than stellar results from their GPC.

[mikeDnight]

3 hours ago, ukskies said:

Thanks again Rob, and Mike.

Mike your post has now made me think about the magnifying effect of Barlows which I wasn't considering.

A 2x Barlow giving nearly 4x magnification? No wonder so many people are using 20mm eyepieces for planetary with binoviewers, I was aware that putting a Barlow in front of the diagonal say will mean greater mag than when it's close to the eyepiece but the penny hadn't dropped, DOH!🤦‍♂️

That brings up another question now. I'd imagine that the glasspath correctors operate at the stated magnification as they are designed for the binoviewer but I'm wondering now if this is actually the case?

I'm also considering a future purchase of an Extender Q which is 1.6x and sits in the drawtube in front of the diagonal, I'm wondering now how this will magnify the image through a binoviewer?

Is there a formula for calculating this magnifying effect does anyone know?

 I'm not certain as I've never used a gpc, but I'd imagine if it says 2.6X that's what you'll get, and not 5.2X. That would mean using shorter focal length eyepieces to attain the same magnification given by a barlow. 

The 1.6X extender Q is beautiful, but it can be a bit fiddly in the dark with all it's screw on extension tubes. The Q is completely invisible optically, but adds quite a length to the focuser end of the telescope. I would often use the extender Q attached to my telescope along with a 2X barlow attached to the nose of the binoviewer. One evening as I was sweeping across the surface of the Moon using this set-up on my FC100DC, which gave around 449X, my stomach rolled as I unexpectedly drifted over the cliff edge of the Apenine mountains which towered in 3D. 

Below is a pic of my 1.6X extender-Q attached to my FC100DZ, with binoviewer plus barlow..

The Q effectively turns the F7.4 DC/DF and the F8 DZ into F11.8 & F12.8 scopes respectively. 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by mikeDnight

[ukskies]

Thanks again everyone, your posts are both interesting and informative, it's a big help.

[ukskies]

6 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

 

The 1.6X extender Q is beautiful, but it can be a bit fiddly in the dark with all it's screw on extension tubes. 

 

I was looking at the 2" version of EXT Q to fit in the 2" drawtube? 

it's this one.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/takahashi-extenders/takahashi-ex-q-16x-for-fsq-106ed.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ukskies]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

 

I mainly use my binoviewers for high power viewing, preferring single eyepieces for low and medium powers. They are fabulous for Lunar and Solar and I’m 50/50 on their use for planetary observing; I tend to see more with a single eyepiece but my floaters are far better controlled with binoviewers.

I hope you enjoy yours 👍

That's how I imagined myself using them Stu tbh just for the higher powered stuff to beat the floaters but this thread has me thinking now so once I have a binoviewer it would be a shame not to experiment.

Thanks for your good wishes.

[MalcolmM]

Big thumbs-up from me for the Maxbrights too. They are fantastic optically and mechanically. 

I use light eyepieces as the binoviewers are quite heavy and it seems counter intuitive to heavily weigh up the eyepiece end of a very light scope. 

I mostly use the 1.25 GPC and it, the 1.25 Baader prism diagonal and the Maxbrights all work and fit together seamlessly. 

The short focus travel of the FC100 will mean extending and shortening the light path with extension tubes probably if changing between using the Maxbrights natively and with the various GPCs. Removing the tube section of the scope  just ahead of the focuser will give you more options. It took me quite a bit of experimenting and various Baader parts to get it all working well.

I find Binoviewers so relaxing to use, I use them for everything except the biggest DSOs and clusters. I don't use them all the time as they are slightly more awkward than mono but every time I get them out after mono sessions I say "Woh! why don't I use these every time!"

Malcolm

Edited May 1, 2023 by MalcolmM
Didn't mean to attach pic!

[MalcolmM]

The pic in my previous post shows my default set-up.  Note the tube section in front of the focus assembly is removed. 2" click-lock attached to the Tak coupling. Then a 2" to 1.25" click-lock. Then the Baader prism diagonal with a 1.25 GPC inserted. Then the Maxbrights. I can easily use and merge images with 7.5 LE eyepieces (which I find very difficult with Williams Optics Binoviewers), and for widefield I use 28mm Erfles.

Native usage requires attaching the 2" click-lock directly to the focus draw tube. The use of the 1.7x GPC requires a small extension to be added, approximately 2.5cm

Malcolm 

[ukskies]

Hi Malcolm, thanks for that. I'm a big fan of clicklocks and fancy a setup similar to yours with a 2" clicklock on the drawtube.

My T2 prism has a 2" nosepiece to go direct into the clicklock so no reducer would be needed at that position. Should give a very central alignment and positive connection. Only thing that may upset my plans is the 1,6x Ext-Q as this is supposed to fit there somewhere too. 

Just for clarity are you inserting the 1.25 GPC in front of the diagonal?

[MalcolmM]

34 minutes ago, ukskies said:

Hi Malcolm, thanks for that. I'm a big fan of clicklocks and fancy a setup similar to yours with a 2" clicklock on the drawtube.

My T2 prism has a 2" nosepiece to go direct into the clicklock so no reducer would be needed at that position. Should give a very central alignment and positive connection. Only thing that may upset my plans is the 1,6x Ext-Q as this is supposed to fit there somewhere too. 

Just for clarity are you inserting the 1.25 GPC in front of the diagonal?

No, the GPC screws into the Binoviewer side of the diagonal in this configuration. The Maxbright manual (which can be downloaded from their website I think) shows all the different configurations. In some configurations the GPC screws into the Binoviewer itself. If you can download it, it would give you a very good idea of which accessories you might need. 

I have no experience with the 1.6x extender but it looks like a very tempting addition; a good way to push the FC100 to it's limits 🙂

Malcolm 

[ukskies]

9 hours ago, MalcolmM said:

The Maxbright manual (which can be downloaded from their website I think) shows all the different configurations. In some configurations the GPC screws into the Binoviewer itself. If you can download it, it would give you a very good idea of which accessories you might need. 

I have no experience with the 1.6x extender but it looks like a very tempting addition; a good way to push the FC100 to it's limits 🙂

Malcolm 

Thanks Malcolm, I've downloaded the manual now and it's very infomative.

Sounds like you need an Extender Q then too. 😉

[MalcolmM]

22 minutes ago, ukskies said:

Thanks Malcolm, I've downloaded the manual now and it's very infomative.

Sounds like you need an Extender Q then too. 😉

I'm trying to resist! But once the itch starts it's hard to ignore! I've enough trouble as it is choosing which telescope, which eyepiece, binoview or not, which binoviewer, which GPC, and back to which eyepiece pair 🙂 Thankfully I don't use filters! And they say choice is a good thing 🙂 First world problems I know!

Malcolm

[Space Hopper]

Sorry if i gave out wrong information with regard to 1.7x GPC placement on the Max 2. I have owned a Max 2 but never used a 1.7gpc with it while i had it.

I assumed it was the same as the Mk5 (which i use) and it screwed directly into the viewer, same as with the 1.25x

I remember there was no option to screw the gpc into the back of the older Max 1 unit so it went into the diagonal : hence a Max 1 specific gpc design (different from the Mk5)

With the Max 2 having that option, i assumed it used the same gpc's as the Mk5.

My mistake, but all a bit confusing.

I believe the cemented doublet element is simply inverted in each design, which you can actually flip over yourself if you wish.

[ukskies]

10 hours ago, MalcolmM said:

I'm trying to resist! But once the itch starts it's hard to ignore! I've enough trouble as it is choosing which telescope, which eyepiece, binoview or not, which binoviewer, which GPC, and back to which eyepiece pair 🙂 Thankfully I don't use filters! And they say choice is a good thing 🙂 First world problems I know!

Malcolm

It is a nice set of troubles you have there though Malcolm that's for sure. I can't see adding an ext-Q is going to make you many more.😉

[ukskies]

2 hours ago, Space Hopper said:

Sorry if i gave out wrong information with regard to 1.7x GPC placement on the Max 2. I have owned a Max 2 but never used a 1.7gpc with it while i had it.

I assumed it was the same as the Mk5 (which i use) and it screwed directly into the viewer, same as with the 1.25x

I remember there was no option to screw the gpc into the back of the older Max 1 unit so it went into the diagonal : hence a Max 1 specific gpc design (different from the Mk5)

With the Max 2 having that option, i assumed it used the same gpc's as the Mk5.

My mistake, but all a bit confusing.

I believe the cemented doublet element is simply inverted in each design, which you can actually flip over yourself if you wish.

Not a problem Rob we're all human. It was nice of you to take the time to post and thanks anyway for clearing that up.

I agree with you that it is all a bit confusing though but then all power to Baader for their excellent work.

Edited May 2, 2023 by ukskies

[Highburymark]

2 hours ago, Space Hopper said:

Sorry if i gave out wrong information with regard to 1.7x GPC placement on the Max 2. I have owned a Max 2 but never used a 1.7gpc with it while i had it.

I assumed it was the same as the Mk5 (which i use) and it screwed directly into the viewer, same as with the 1.25x

I remember there was no option to screw the gpc into the back of the older Max 1 unit so it went into the diagonal : hence a Max 1 specific gpc design (different from the Mk5)

With the Max 2 having that option, i assumed it used the same gpc's as the Mk5.

My mistake, but all a bit confusing.

I believe the cemented doublet element is simply inverted in each design, which you can actually flip over yourself if you wish.

I got that wrong too when I bought the MBII. Couldn’t work out why the 1.7x was a little soft as it had always been fine with my MkV.

[ukskies]

22 hours ago, MalcolmM said:

 

Just looking at your setup picture and wondering so I thought I'd just ask instead. 😆

When you are in focus on the above setup how much of the drawtube is extended? No need to measure Malcolm just approximate please if you can, it would help me understand the back focus a bit.