Video fluid head for 72 apo/ maybe 102 apo- Benro S8PRO/ others- which is your experience?

[Marian M]

Following below thread, I took in consideration the advices coming from you and already ordered the TS 72 FPL53 (to come) together with a monster tripod- Benro TMA47AXL (received). I had the chance to test this tripod with a friend and is rock solid for small refractors, but I will post a new thread after some real field utilization

 

Now, the big question, what head to use for this tripod. Already owning a Skytee and an AZEQ6, the new one should be a grab & go. I am more towards a video fluid head because I am planning to use the new 72 scope as spotting scope as well, kind of all around day & night. The scope itself, with large eyepieces or bino will be around 3.5 Kg, the tripod is already 3 kg, so I am looking for a tripod head in the same range, all together to be up to 10 kg. Overall, max 10 kg, to be able to take it in one hand. Maybe a little above grab & go but still decent

 

My budy is deeply in video heads, even on 120ED with bino/ heavy eyepieces., hence the call is done- I want to go with a fluid head, no astro heads for the 72. For longer observations, I already have the other 2 mounts, very good for astro. On a limited budget, I found 3 options- Fancier 717, Manfrotto 502 and Benro S8PRO.  The very first one seems being a value for money head. Manfrotto has an integrated non-adjustable counterweight of 2.4 kg, which is below my scope with heavy eyepieces, while Benro seems checking all points, just a little heavier (2.5 kg).

 

I was wondering which is your experience on any of these fluid heads, or other

 

Many thanks, wish you clear sky!

 

 

[Elp]

I use a Tecnosky Cubo, works very well. It is a solid lump of metal (around 3kg I think).

[Marian M]

Thanks a lot for the quick revert!

What scope do you mount on it, how is the friction while changing eyepieces?

[Elp]

You can tighten or loosen the alt and az bearing clutches so if the scopes balanced you can leave it fairly fluid and loose, or tighten them so it doesn't move at all. Changing eyepieces doesn't do much in terms of movement, you do have to finely tighten them to get to that point where the scope doesn't move at all, sometimes it has a habit of when you centre the target it'll move up/down slightly due to the weight imbalance on the altitude. Using a counterweight on the supplied bar helps with the fluidity of the azimuth axis. I've used lots of things with it, WO Z61, C6 at native 1500 and barlowed 3000mm FL (though centering this is difficult) and also as a pan head for my DSLR.

[Marian M]

Many thanks @Elp, will look for reviews and give a chance to this choice as well. Looking on net, I just found out that this mount is larger than I thought, in my mind was similar with TS AZ6

[RT65CB-SWL]

I used to have and use a Manfrotto 128RC. It was on a Manfrotto 055PROB and used to use mount my TeleVue Ranger. I think it is/was semi/fluid. It was OK, but would not reach the zenith. I did a part exchange for a pair of 20 x 80 binoculars.

I now use AOK-AYO or Tele-Optic Giro and Universal Astronomics DwarfStar alt-az mounts. [images below].

left... AOK-AYO  right... Tele-Optic Giro  

above... Universal Astronomics DwarfStar mount with my TeleVue Ranger on the Manfrotto 055PROB tripod. This small alt-az will even support my ETX105 and C6.

I even use my photography ballhead...

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Philip R

[vlaiv]

I don't have any actual experience with this video head - but I've been eyeballing it as a cheap alt-az mount for small scopes:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005004674888947.html

Only issue that I find with such heads is range of motion. They allow for 90 degrees forward tilt but are limited in backward tilt - which is important for astronomy - we don't point our telescopes to the ground but rather up.

This means that some sort of wedge must be used between telescope and mount - telescope needs to be mounted pointing slightly up when mount is level to get usable range of motion.

[Tiny Clanger]

Fluid heads typically only physically allow around 60 degrees alt. One solution is to mount the 'scope 'backwards', which means the handle is pointing away from you. This allows you to get 90 degrees alt, and is awkward but not impossible. A better solution is to find a head with a removable handle which can be slid into its bracket from the 'wrong' side. Some manfrotto models ( for instance the 128 RC ) allow this.

[vlaiv]

11 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Fluid heads typically only physically allow around 60 degrees alt. One solution is to mount the 'scope 'backwards', which means the handle is pointing away from you. This allows you to get 90 degrees alt, and is awkward but not impossible. A better solution is to find a head with a removable handle which can be slid into its bracket from the 'wrong' side. Some manfrotto models ( for instance the 128 RC ) allow this.

One I linked above has feature to mount handle to both left and right sides of the head for left/right handed operation, but I'm not sure if handle can be mounted backward (I was hoping that this mechanism would allow for something like that).

[Tiny Clanger]

I've no idea about if this is possible with any other fluid head, just that it is with this specific model, which is a bit lightweight for the job of carrying anything but a very small, light set up (It's only rated 4kg I think ) . It's not ideal, but works adequately with the very light 72 ED at modest magnifications, at more than about 100x it's difficult to get it to be precise enough.

A couple of photos to try to show  'scope on it can reach (and pass !) vertical, and how the 128 handle is attached - you can see the star shaped screw which holds the handle in a simple tubular collar which is open at both ends, allowing it to be reversed.

               

  

[Marian M]

For some of the video heads I have read reviews with people putting the handle the other way around to compensate the lack of vertical position

For Manfrotto 502 is working, for Benro S8PRO not very sure, may interfere with the locking buttons. I am thinking of manufacturing DIY a kind of wedge from 2 swiss arca plate, joined at an angle to compensate the gap of the fluid head to 90 degrees.

 

In between really curious if someone here has used this Benro S8PRO, or similar fluid heads

[RT65CB-SWL]

On 29/04/2023 at 13:46, Tiny Clanger said:

I've no idea about if this is possible with any other fluid head, just that it is with this specific model, which is a bit lightweight for the job of carrying anything but a very small, light set up (It's only rated 4kg I think ) . It's not ideal, but works adequately with the very light 72 ED at modest magnifications, at more than about 100x it's difficult to get it to be precise enough.

A couple of photos to try to show  'scope on it can reach (and pass !) vertical, and how the 128 handle is attached - you can see the star shaped screw which holds the handle in a simple tubular collar which is open at both ends, allowing it to be reversed.

               

 

 

 

edit by: @Philip R... I am a little confused as to why your 128RC reaches 90deg and mine did not. It would reach about 85deg.  

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Philip R
something went wrong during the editing!

[PeterW]

I have a mvh501 manfrotto head and use it with an 80mm refractor or70mm binoculars. I need a more stable tripod to go under it as things weren’t as stable as I’d have liked when I mounted a Mak127 recently,  so the opposite issue you have. I don’t rely on the fluid balance force, I move the head and the  lock it into place firmly.

I wonder if Benro do a suitable carbon version as I’d like the tripod to be closer to 2kg and still super solid. 

@Marian M I have thought the same for “adding some angle” to help make near zenith observing easier, I reckon a 3D printed wedge with plates bolted on would work.

If you extend one tripod leg a bit more and reverse the head you can get pretty close to the zenith, risking a little unbalance so you need to be careful.

 

Peter

[RT65CB-SWL]

I do not what happened to my second reply, but I had to add my reply to the bottom of @Tiny Clanger post. Please click ‘Expand‘ to read it at the end. Apologies in advance.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Philip R

[Marian M]

Many thanks Peter for your answer!

I can share my experience- I have compared in the showroom the Benro carbon tripod TMA37C (was on discounting) with Manfrotto 55XPRO and the latest one was more stable, and which I bought. At a later stage, I have compared Manfrotto with Benro metal TMA47AXL, which was much stable, hence returned Manfrotto and bought the TMA47AXL. The setup was a 72ED with MB bino and heavy eyepieces

 

If there are any thought, experience on fluid heads, please...

Thank you!

[RT65CB-SWL]

13 minutes ago, Marian M said:

Many thanks Peter for your answer!

I can share my experience- I have compared in the showroom the Benro carbon tripod TMA37C (was on discounting) with Manfrotto 55XPRO and the latest one was more stable, and which I bought. At a later stage, I have compared Manfrotto with Benro metal TMA47AXL, which was much stable, hence returned Manfrotto and bought the TMA47AXL. The setup was a 72ED with MB bino and heavy eyepieces

 

If there are any thought, experience on fluid heads, please...

Thank you!

One thing I did find slightly annoying when I had my 128RC, was that it would move, albeit extremely slow when I had a 35mm SLR attached to my TeleVue Ranger whilst I was taking some photos of the 1999 solar eclipse… it was balanced and everything was screwed tight. To prevent any movement I just gently held the panning arm/handle and held my breath when pressing the shutter release cable.

[Marian M]

Thanks a lot Philip for your answer!

Reading some reviews, forums, usually people recomand a video head twice the weight of the setup and a tripod 3 times the setup weight. I cannot tell from my own experience, aside the tripod story above. On the other hand, 128RC seems a little too small for the weight you have described, and probably this has been the issue 

[RT65CB-SWL]

You could be correct! 

I did not have the AYO or Giro in 1999. They came along after I purchased my ETX105 a few years later.

BTW… the ETX105 is Meade blue. I had a red Nissan Micra when the image/photo was taken… and the ETX has been ‘re-modded’ too!

Edited May 7, 2023 by RT65CB-SWL

[PeterW]

I’ve used the mvh501 to 100x, but as I said I always move it with the handle and lock it down. There is some jiggle, but I’m sure that’s the manfrotto190 tripod it’s on, hence the query about more stable tripod.

Peter

[Marian M]

44 minutes ago, Philip R said:

You could be correct! 

I did not have the AYO or Giro in 1999. They came along after I purchased my ETX105 a few years later.

BTW… the ETX105 is Meade blue. I had a red Nissan Micra when the image/photo was taken… and the ETX has been ‘re-modded’ too!

It look gorgeous 😀

I acknowledge, sometimes it is important the outside look, aside the view through 🤣 

[Tiny Clanger]

5 hours ago, Philip R said:

I do not what happened to my second reply, but I had to add my reply to the bottom of @Tiny Clanger post. Please click ‘Expand‘ to read it at the end. Apologies in advance.

I can't know why your head/tripod combination would not go as high as mine, all I know is mine does, as my photos show.

I see the fluid head as a stopgap, not ideal, but what I have to hand, and lightweight.

[Marian M]

Hi friends!

 

I have updated the original thread, hence for those interested how it ends up, please visit this one, very end:

 

I've ended up with Benro S8PRO, a little heavier than others but handling exceptionally well the 72 APO, let us say decent the 102 APO and yet handling the 120ED with bino. The last 2 were the bonus, because the plan was for 72 only 😀