Sanity check for beginner

[Vevvo67]

Hi All

I am going to purchase my first telescope shortly I have read the wealth of information here on the forums (the stuff I understand anyway!). I understand that there is no one shop telescope and that astrophotography and observation are two very separate beasts. I have selected the following items based on my requirements (outlined below). I was wondering if experienced guys and gals would read and comment as necessary. 

Budget £1000

Location Bortle scale 4

Requirement observation only (planets and usual starter DSO M-series targets) 

Telescope StellaLyra 10" f/5 Dobsonian (best aperture for £ ratio plus good accessories listed)

Astro Essentials 1.25" Laser Collimator

Celestron Eye-opener Eyepiece and Filter Kit (has x2 Barlow)

I will have a red torch, sky finder app, Planisphere etc already.

I am getting it right for my needs? Are the eyepieces and overkill? Do i only need 2 or 3 extra eye pieces not a case full? The telescope comes supplied with fully multicoated 1.25" 9mm Plössl and 2" 30mm Superview eyepieces.

Your advice / comments gratefully received.

Thanks

Chris  

[bosun21]

I would definitely drop the eyepiece kit. You would be much better to buy two or three relatively decent eyepieces and a barlow of similar quality. The eyepiece kits come with eyepieces that are too close together in focal length. You won’t get any benefit from this. The BST Starguider range are a good starting point. Good luck.

[Vevvo67]

Hi bosun21

Thanks for the advice would you be able to recommend 3 lens sizes from BST as a starting point based on my observation needs?

Thanks 

[cajen2]

Good choice on the scope for your requirements (assuming you don't mind shifting it around - it's no lightweight), but I agree with B21: forget the EP set. The two EPs that come with the scope are adequate and you can certainly get a lot of good views with them, but instead of going cheap and buying several extra EPs at the same time, I would buy one better every so often. I'd start with a good planetary one like a Baader Morpheus 4.5 or 6.5mm or a Pentax XW 5mm (I have both). That way, you wouldn't have to pay twice as you will inevitably want to upgrade the BSTs later. The Baader especially has a much wider field of view than a BST, which is very handy as the target moves fast at these mags, so you'd need to nudge the scope less.

It's taken me a couple of years to get a range of EPs I'm happy with and it irked me to have to buy twice for some mags.

[Vevvo67]

Hi Cajen2

Thanks for the advice - hopefully the scope will be set up in a shed and moved out on a trolley for viewings. I will definitely check out the Baader Morpheus range you suggested. I would also prefer to buy 1 "good" eyepiece then several cheap ones that require upgrade sooner rather than later.

Thanks for the sound advice 

[NGC 1502]

Ditto eyepiece advice👍

[M40]

+1 for dropping the eyepiece kit, but I do like offering an alternative. I  use two eyepieces all the time, a baader zoom (never used the barlow) and a baader hyperion 36mm. So can I suggest you start adding to your kit with a zoom, it will be so much easier to use than swapping eyepieces. All the best.

[cajen2]

11 minutes ago, M40 said:

+1 for dropping the eyepiece kit, but I do like offering an alternative. I  use two eyepieces all the time, a baader zoom (never used the barlow) and a baader hyperion 36mm. So can I suggest you start adding to your kit with a zoom, it will be so much easier to use than swapping eyepieces. All the best.

Agreed.....IF you get on with zoom EPs (not everyone does), the Baader Mk IV is great. At lower mags you do lose some FOV, though. An alternative to the Hyperion 34 would be a StellaLyra 30mm UFF, which is better corrected and with a good FOV and up-to-the-edge sharpness.

The thing is, Vevvo's scope comes with a 2" 30mm EP, which, although not wonderful, will do him quite well for now. Missing focal lengths will be more important for him, I think.

Edited March 16, 2023 by cajen2

[Ratlet]

I would also suggest you don't get the eyepiece kit.  Your telescope comes with 2 eyepieces that are 'good enough' to get going with.  No matter how good your eyepieces are, the weakest link you your setup if you are just starting out is going to be between the eyepiece and the ground.  I say that because I am also a beginner and I am still the problem.  It's easy to get carried away with buying kit when you get going, resist.

In my opinion you only really need one eyepiece as you have high and lower power.  So get a medium power.  To that end I'd recommend the 16mm Nirvana.  It's got a wide field of view and works really well.  It's very highly regarded on the forum and for DSO is a top performer in a range of scopes.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/nirvana-es-uwa-82-ultrawide-eyepieces.html

Once it comes I would use your eyepieces and see what you need.  Decide what you like about the eyepieces you have and what you don't like.  Then decide what other eypieces you need/want.  The skies not going anywhere and the planets aren't great right now in the UK so you've got plenty of time.

As to the rest of your budget, get the laser collimator (check the collimation but don't futz with it) and one of these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/moon-neutral-density-filters/astro-essentials-variable-polarising-moon-filter.html

It will help dim things down for venus and the moon.  Easy to use.  You can decide if you want the 2" or 1".  You might want to pick up a red dot finder.  You'll find it easier.  I've only really used a red dot finder or telrad/rigel quickfinder

Apart from that, pocket the rest of your budget and get out and observe and see what you think you'll need based on your experience.  Maybe you'll like the wide FOV from the Nirvana and want more of that.  Maybe you'll find you prefer lunar observing and want a better high power.  Or maybe you want wide field views of clusters and nebula but can't stand the Superview and want an UFF.

I just started observing in the summer and recently got the 10" Stellalyra (last week) as an upgrade for the 130PDS so I'm in a similar boat as you, but I'd suggest being methodical in your approach.  Buy your kit based on your experience.  You'll quickly decide what you like/don't like and want to get more kit so imho you are better hanging onto your bucks and buying then.

[bosun21]

39 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I would also suggest you don't get the eyepiece kit.  Your telescope comes with 2 eyepieces that are 'good enough' to get going with.  No matter how good your eyepieces are, the weakest link you your setup if you are just starting out is going to be between the eyepiece and the ground.  I say that because I am also a beginner and I am still the problem.  It's easy to get carried away with buying kit when you get going, resist.

In my opinion you only really need one eyepiece as you have high and lower power.  So get a medium power.  To that end I'd recommend the 16mm Nirvana.  It's got a wide field of view and works really well.  It's very highly regarded on the forum and for DSO is a top performer in a range of scopes.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/nirvana-es-uwa-82-ultrawide-eyepieces.html

Once it comes I would use your eyepieces and see what you need.  Decide what you like about the eyepieces you have and what you don't like.  Then decide what other eypieces you need/want.  The skies not going anywhere and the planets aren't great right now in the UK so you've got plenty of time.

As to the rest of your budget, get the laser collimator (check the collimation but don't futz with it) and one of these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/moon-neutral-density-filters/astro-essentials-variable-polarising-moon-filter.html

It will help dim things down for venus and the moon.  Easy to use.  You can decide if you want the 2" or 1".  You might want to pick up a red dot finder.  You'll find it easier.  I've only really used a red dot finder or telrad/rigel quickfinder

Apart from that, pocket the rest of your budget and get out and observe and see what you think you'll need based on your experience.  Maybe you'll like the wide FOV from the Nirvana and want more of that.  Maybe you'll find you prefer lunar observing and want a better high power.  Or maybe you want wide field views of clusters and nebula but can't stand the Superview and want an UFF.

I just started observing in the summer and recently got the 10" Stellalyra (last week) as an upgrade for the 130PDS so I'm in a similar boat as you, but I'd suggest being methodical in your approach.  Buy your kit based on your experience.  You'll quickly decide what you like/don't like and want to get more kit so imho you are better hanging onto your bucks and buying then.

Not going to get wide field views with a 10” dobsonian. It all depends on how you define wide field.

[Guest]

Has anyone mentioned ditching the eyepiece kit?  LOL.  Sorry couldnt resist

[dweller25]

Hello @Vevvo67 and welcome to SGL.

You have made a very good choice for planetary and DSO’s but you will need a neutral density filter as already mentioned for the planets.

Eyepieces for DSO’s - I would see how the supplied 30mm eyepiece goes.

For planets you need to be around x180 for Saturn and Jupiter - a 7mm. 
Mars will need more magnification, so perhaps a 6mm (x208) or even a 5mm (x250).

Look for eyepieces with a wide field of view as this means you will have to nudge the scope less when observing the planets.

Also you could download “Stellarium” which is excellent free skymap software.

Hope that helps.

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by dweller25

[Ratlet]

6 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Not going to get wide field views with a 10” dobsonian. It all depends on how you define wide field.

True it's not massively wide.  It'll take in pretty much the whole Pleiades and gives a tidy view of Orion and the environs.

I'm in a very tricky position where I have to decide what is more important, taking the dob out OR putting the 30mm superview into the 130pds where it should give a 3.2° FOV.  Not going to lie, either option makes me runny 😁.

[Naughty Neal]

One can add more value to spend on EP's by dropping the laser collimator as well, a simple collimator cap will suffice for most needs.

Though £49 isn't over expensive for a laser collimator, for the cost  one could get a cap and in  the offers one of the 15mm BST lenses   possibly for the  money saved. Drop the unneeded gadgets and spent the money better on EP's or other beneficial upgrades.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Naughty Neal

[Vevvo67]

Dear All

Thank you for the clear suggestion to drop the EP kit....its done! I will check out the recommended EPs you have all offered and look at the collimating cap.

thanks again for taking the time to reply

[cajen2]

One more question, Vevvo, do you use glasses to observe? If so, avoid any EPs with low eye relief (the distance between the lens and your eye - should be quoted in the specs of an EP). The Nirvanas, though great value for money, have only 12mm.

[Guest]

I have the twin to your scope here in the States.  I will just toss this out there.  Flo's housebrand eyepieces called Syellarlyra i would think real hard about the 20mm 80 degree model.  Yes it costs more but it is sooooooo worth it.  Also a variable polarized filter is always nice to have.  Taming down the moon or jupiter is always nice to be able to do. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Mike Q

[Carbon Brush]

There is a benefit to the laser collimator.
On a big scope, you set up the laser, think everything is aligned. Then nudge certain flexible bits, or change the scope orientation.
You see the red dot move.
This makes it easier to diagnose wobbly bits, free play, focus tube not quite pointing where it should etc.
Sorry I'm not intending to frighten you with scope issues. It is just what I have found useful over the years on multiple scopes.
Also are your arms long enough to (for example) tweak the primary mirror and view the eyepiece tube?

Don't forget, if you buy a laser collimator, it needs collimating before use. Strange?
The beam must exit perpendicular to the tube. There are little grub screws for beam centring.
Just put the laser into a V block - like a piece of wood. Then rotate the laser, projecting to a wall.
If the dot moves, it is not perpendicular to the tube, tweak a grubscrew and try again.
Some talk about using a lathe chuck, or an engineers precision V block.
But quite honestly two bits of wood nailed together is good enough.

I like using a laser, but in earlier times I have used cap/cheshire with success.

By the way. Once collimated your scope should stay well set up for a long time.
Unless your storage place to viewing place is a long cobbled path😁

HTH, David.

[dweller25]

To fully collimate a Newt you need to do the secondary first, a laser cannot do this, but a much cheaper collimation cap can.

[cajen2]

41 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

There is a benefit to the laser collimator.
On a big scope, you set up the laser, think everything is aligned. Then nudge certain flexible bits, or change the scope orientation.
You see the red dot move.
This makes it easier to diagnose wobbly bits, free play, focus tube not quite pointing where it should etc.
Sorry I'm not intending to frighten you with scope issues. It is just what I have found useful over the years on multiple scopes.
Also are your arms long enough to (for example) tweak the primary mirror and view the eyepiece tube?

Don't forget, if you buy a laser collimator, it needs collimating before use. Strange?
The beam must exit perpendicular to the tube. There are little grub screws for beam centring.
Just put the laser into a V block - like a piece of wood. Then rotate the laser, projecting to a wall.
If the dot moves, it is not perpendicular to the tube, tweak a grubscrew and try again.
Some talk about using a lathe chuck, or an engineers precision V block.
But quite honestly two bits of wood nailed together is good enough.

I like using a laser, but in earlier times I have used cap/cheshire with success.

By the way. Once collimated your scope should stay well set up for a long time.
Unless your storage place to viewing place is a long cobbled path😁

HTH, David.

Or use Lego...better and more accurate than nailing bits of wood together:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/400843-collimate-your-collimator-the-easy-way/#comment-4297466

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Or use Lego...better and more accurate than nailing bits of wood together:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/400843-collimate-your-collimator-the-easy-way/#comment-4297466

That depends on how good of woodworker you are lol

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, dweller25 said:

To fully collimate a Newt you need to do the secondary first, a laser cannot do this, but a much cheaper collimation cap can.

Better with a concenter to align the secondary mirror as with a cap you have to rely on your eyes judgement.

[dweller25]

1 hour ago, bosun21 said:

Better with a concenter to align the secondary mirror as with a cap you have to rely on your eyes judgement.

Yup 👍

[Apprentice]

As someone who started out with a newtonian, not many years ago, i have to chip in and ditto on the ep kit.

But given that you already ditched it, a more important thing that I found (after buying the laser, which needed collimation as well) is that a concenter proved to be a much simpler collimation tool for me. It's a pain to shell out over 70 quid for it (glorified plastic tube that is), but it was the first time I actually properly collimated the scope (and ot was quite off despite me thinking it was 'good enough').

If the budget can cover it, it works great in tandem with the laswr collimator, (which i use to quickly check primary collimation), but I managed to to collimate it using the concenter.

And welcome to the clan!

[Spile]

My recommendation would be to get a Cheshire eyepiece and sight tube combination tool, a cap and a copy of Turn Left at Orion. I would also suggest you consider a zoom eyepiece. I like the Baader Hyperion IV and matching Barlow.