Buying an astrophotography package ? Keep in 1 piece permanently?

[Altair8389]

Hi All,

 

I have seen some Youtubers like e.g. Cuiv the Lazy geek say you can/should keep a rig outside in the rain and snow and heat with an outside cover.

I wonder if this is good advice. And to keep one item permanently fixed ? For example a 60mm refractor can be used for more than one thing. Dissassemble a rig can take time, but I actually prefer to take something apart. For example, the camera for the guidescope or imaging camera could be used on something else and I can protect them from damage more if I take that camera out etc.

It seems it should increase cost of astronomy hobby considerably if I follow Cuiv's advice.

See his video:

For example would I need 5 separate EQ mounts for 5 telescopes, that could be a bit expensive ?

 

What about storage. Do you need an enormous house /space or massive garage to do this ?

 

Many thanks.

Magnus

[Anthonyexmouth]

My complete setup stays outdoors all year round. Since doing so my imaging time has vastly increased due to the ability to easily take advantage of a few hours between clouds where before it was too much hassle to setup. 

 

[CraigT82]

2 hours ago, Altair8389 said:

can/should keep a rig outside in the rain and snow and heat with an outside cover

Yup pretty much every bit of the rig will be ok as long as you’re careful. Decent cover with ventilation, desiccant etc etc. unless you get serious sub-zero temps (pet heater maybe) or super high summer temps (sun shade?) it should all be fine.  Batteries should last longer if kept inside though, if that’s what you use. 
 

The advice regarding keeping everything connected and in one price is given because taking things apart repeatedly will introduce dust onto optical surfaces which means more flats and more cleaning. Also once you’ve got an imaging train dialled in for spacing/tilt then taking it apart again is going to ruin that. We’re talking fractions of mm here.

Keeping everything together and kept set up outside and polar aligned means that you’ll be capturing data within minutes of deciding to go out. It will enable greater productivity.  

[Varavall]

5 hours ago, Altair8389 said:

For example would I need 5 separate EQ mounts for 5 telescopes

No, just one big mount and mount all 5 scopes on it!

On the serious side, if you enjoy taking the rig apart and reassembling then polar aligning and recalibrating PHD2 and whatever using up valuable imaging time, then that's OK. I used to do that for a couple of months, then it became a chore. I now keep the rig fully assembled under a motorbike clamshell tent so I can start imaging in under 5 minutes, so no longer a chore but a joy. My kit has been in it's tent for 2 years now in the relatively harsh climate of the mountains of Tarragona (down to -5C in winter to 40C in summer with regular mistrals) but everything has worked without issue.

[Elp]

I setup and break down every time unless I know there might be a close following good night I'll keep it assembled temporarily but indoors, it's not really an issue. It becomes kind of therapeutic to set it up, physical setup around 15-20 mins, another 20 maybe to get the plan running. I usually don't image unless there's 3 hours clear cloudless sky showing so the setup time doesn't bother me.

I don't really get why people would be happy leaving thousands of pounds of equipment outside, covered or not. If I ever did get to this stage, I'd at least bring the optical train inside.

This process does become more cumbersome when setting up a second rig though.

You'll find many people have more than one setup and chop and change equipment to suit the target they're imaging at the time.

[Varavall]

12 minutes ago, Elp said:

I don't really get why people would be happy leaving thousands of pounds of equipment outside, covered or not.

The best way to see the sky is to leave it outside 😁

I guess it comes down to risk assessment. People leave their more valuable cars outside, but I live in the back of beyond with nearst neighbour half a mile away, so there is nobody to see what I have, so it's low risk for me. When imaging I go to bed and see what's left in the morning when I get up!

[DaveS]

I keep my secondary rig under a TG cover with an electric pet bed underneath to keep condensation away.

Constantly setting up and breaking down is not only a pain but a recipe for errors, as is constantly chopping and changing your rig.

[Anthonyexmouth]

9 hours ago, Varavall said:

The best way to see the sky is to leave it outside 😁

I guess it comes down to risk assessment. People leave their more valuable cars outside, but I live in the back of beyond with nearst neighbour half a mile away, so there is nobody to see what I have, so it's low risk for me. When imaging I go to bed and see what's left in the morning when I get up!

Exactly, when it's inside its worth nothing. I'm surrounded by neighbours, much to the detriment of my North and Eastern skyline. All of this kit has a lifetime and being setup permanently means I get the most out of it for my money. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say I probably get more than 10x the imaging time with my setup now than I did when I had to drag it out and setup. PA gets checked twice a year, less wear on connections. Ideally I would have a dome but not enough room in the garden, just need Amazon to start selling automated BBQ covers. 

I get some can't do it, but if you have the option to build a garden pier and keep your gear setup you'd never regret it. With the BBQ covers it just looks like a patio heater in the garden. 

[SteveNickolls]

Hi, thanks for posting. This is a question you have to decide on after balancing things in your own mind and jump one way. Plenty of folks seem to have no trouble leaving kit out, albeit protected in every weather, though after Cuivs recent calamity there were plenty of viewers who admitted to having had similar issues. 

The obvious advantages of having kit ready or almost ready and deployed outside for you are there to explore. I am of an age where I want my gear to last me out so I  have gone the route of devising an invisible, dispersed observatory (joke)- I built an imaging pad at the bottom of the garden with markers for the tripod to quickly polar align each session, purchased a light imaging set up (GEM28, Samyang 135m lens, ASI533, guide scope and camera, Pegasus power box micro and StarTech USB over Ethetnet device) that I can carry all set up to the pad, wires connected ready. I just connect up to a Cat6 Ethernet cable laid in conduit outdoors and roll out a rcd protected mains power reel. Apart from a nightly quick polar align using SharpCap Pro I can then return indoors to control the whole session. Packing any takes a few minutes only. I store my gear indoors and leave no trace of the invisible, dispersed observatory outside. SWMBO is happy too with that. 👍

Good luck deciding which road you want to travel on, there's no right or wrong just cost.

Cheers,

Steve

[900SL]

It depends on your circumstances and location and equipment.

Good location, heavy complicated rig? Permanent set up makes a lot of sense. Durability may be affected by external exposure, eg coastal location, and humidity 

I either shoot from a balcony or travel to a darker location, so I set up each time. I keep the scope, camera, loom, cables etc all assembled and ready to go. Takes less than 30 mins to set up, polar align, focus, schedule and be on target

 

[tomato]

Before I got a permanent observatory I used to set up and take down, there was no way I would leave all that kit outside without being in a 'secure' structure, but that's just my personal view.

I regularly change cameras and scopes etc in the observatory, but being retired I have the time to do this. I always seem to get a couple of hours of clear sky after a change to realign the cameras etc, that's the advantage of the permanent observatory again.

[Jerry Barnes]

I keep my set up in the garage and wheel it out and attach the camera when needed.  It takes about 15 minutes to polar align using iPolar and connect the pc etc.  Saves carrying it as well.  My garden backs onto a public field so its a good compromise between ease of setup and security.

 

[Altair8389]

Hi,

Thank you guys! Very useful info and advice given. I did not know about Cuiv’s misfortune, I will need to search for that out. I think we all have to choose our own unique setup., what we can accept. Our circumstances, money, work, time, mood, astrophotography knowledge, skills etc are all unique.

 

I think there is merit in keeping some things in place as it would be hard to keep taking it apart. There is merit in all the suggestions, I will try and make a logical formula for my and future imagers.

 

Magnus

[Altair8389]

I just found out about Astrobiscuits disaster :

Cuiv also had a disaster in January, his covers were blown away and his equipment got wet. Not sure how much damage was done to the mount and cameras. Are they to an extent waterproof?
 

I usually stay very vigilant. If there is rain coming I like to be able to remove the vital parts in minutes. I can leave the tripod in place with a cover, but I usually remove everything else inside the house, for those nights with no rain for a few days. An emergency cover would be nice if you can setup near the house (hausawning.tv). A nice observatory dome or a shed would be nice as well.

 

 

 

 

[Anthonyexmouth]

10 minutes ago, Altair8389 said:

I just found out about Astrobiscuits disaster :

Cuiv also had a disaster in January, his covers were blown away and his equipment got wet. Not sure how much damage was done to the mount and cameras. Are they to an extent waterproof?
 

I usually stay very vigilant. If there is rain coming I like to be able to remove the vital parts in minutes. I can leave the tripod in place with a cover, but I usually remove everything else inside the house, for those nights with no rain for a few days. An emergency cover would be nice if you can setup near the house (hausawning.tv). A nice observatory dome or a shed would be nice as well.

 

 

 

 

Horrifying to see the Tak damaged but TBF, that's on him really. I can't see that storm coming out of nowhere. The only real time electrics get water damaged are when they are powered and get wet and short out. If unpowered just let them dry out properly. 

With my 1.2t pier I can image in quite windy weather with my dual frac rig and still have good guiding, a newt might not fair so well in the wind. 

[Altair8389]

6 hours ago, Jerry Barnes said:

I keep my set up in the garage and wheel it out and attach the camera when needed.  It takes about 15 minutes to polar align using iPolar and connect the pc etc.  Saves carrying it as well.  My garden backs onto a public field so its a good compromise between ease of setup and security.

 

Hi Anthony,

How does the telescope/tripod not topple over ? How is the whole thing stable on the trolley. Did you do a DIY job on this trolley?

Another problem: how do you lift the tripod and OTA on the trolley and also how do you lower tripod and OTA down on the ground where you are imaging?

Thanks.

[Altair8389]

5 hours ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

Horrifying to see the Tak damaged but TBF, that's on him really. I can't see that storm coming out of nowhere. The only real time electrics get water damaged are when they are powered and get wet and short out. If unpowered just let them dry out properly. 

With my 1.2t pier I can image in quite windy weather with my dual frac rig and still have good guiding, a newt might not fair so well in the wind. 

Hi Anthony,

What is a 1.2t pier ?

I am very tempted to build a pier actually, but it looks so difficult and messy. The problem is I do not know which place to put the pier - in the garden or on the patio. Maybe I need 2 piers to maximise the coverage of the sky.

Thanks.

Magnus

[Clarkey]

I used to set all my kit up and strip down on every use. Personally, I don't like the idea of using a cover - although I know plenty of people use them. However, I found I was wasting opportunities due to the time taken to set up. I now have an observatory with 2 imaging piers. However, even when imaging I have a rain alarm app on my phone and a rain sensor so I can go to bed in the knowledge my kit should be OK. I also have a PIR sensor for possible intruders. I never used to worry as my garden is well protected, but I got paranoid reading too many posts on here!

[Anthonyexmouth]

9 hours ago, Altair8389 said:

Hi Anthony,

What is a 1.2t pier ?

I am very tempted to build a pier actually, but it looks so difficult and messy. The problem is I do not know which place to put the pier - in the garden or on the patio. Maybe I need 2 piers to maximise the coverage of the sky.

Thanks.

Magnus

1.2 ton. 900mm square concrete block and 300mm tube pier all poured as a single lump. can imagine in quite breezey weather with good guiding. 

[Paul M]

Last year we had our rear lawn (if you could call it that!) Paved over. The 2 new Labradoodles ruined what was left of it bydigging it up.

At the time I thought about installing a pier. I could have run a cable duct with permanent power to it. Anyway, as always procrastination ruled the day.

I ocassionally leave my gear our all night doing its thing and throw a sheet over it in the morning if there is a chance of a second cleat night, or put it all away.

Even with a pier I don't know whether I'd leave the whole thing permanently setup under covers. We get a lot of rain and wind blown salt from the sea about a mile away. It gets into everything! But I'd certainly leave it out for protracted periods of good weather.

Which is all academic because the pier didn't happen.... yet!

[Anthonyexmouth]

15 minutes ago, Paul M said:

Last year we had our rear lawn (if you could call it that!) Paved over. The 2 new Labradoodles ruined what was left of it bydigging it up.

At the time I thought about installing a pier. I could have run a cable duct with permanent power to it. Anyway, as always procrastination ruled the day.

I ocassionally leave my gear our all night doing its thing and throw a sheet over it in the morning if there is a chance of a second cleat night, or put it all away.

Even with a pier I don't know whether I'd leave the whole thing permanently setup under covers. We get a lot of rain and wind blown salt from the sea about a mile away. It gets into everything! But I'd certainly leave it out for protracted periods of good weather.

Which is all academic because the pier didn't happen.... yet!

I can see the sea from my pier. Get some wild westerly storms and never had an issue out under the covers 365/24/7. In 6 yrs the only sign of corrosion is the powder coating starting to peel on the Skywatcher counter weights which tbh I'd expect that anyway if i was taking it apart all the time. No sign of it anywhere else. 

All my cabling is underground and comes up through the centre of the pier from my workshop. 

[sinbad40]

I got tired of missing the odd bits of clear sky taking everything out and setting up followed by cloud, so got a cover 365/24/7, a bigger version than the one i really needed just in case i upgraded the scope.  Couple of times it was damp inside but was given advise to get something inside just to keep the temp up under the cover, and that would sort it, and getting it off the grass would also help.

So my wife was not happy with me building a pier with the 8" galv ducting i had, didn't think it would look right or nice for some reason, couldn't be bothered arguing about it, so I just bought one.  Now installed, with everything setup under the cover.  I leave the mini PC running with the dew heaters on minimum setting, and its been like that for the last month.  I give it a check every couple of days if not getting used, and its been nice and dry.

[david_taurus83]

I have a permanent setup as well under a TG cover. After the first night the scope and mount were covered in condensation so now I leave a small dew strap wrapped loosely around the Dec axis under the scope dovetail with the warm side facing out. Its left on low to medium power 24/7 and after 18 months I haven't had any more issues with condensation under the cover. 

[Jerry Barnes]

On 09/03/2023 at 23:45, Altair8389 said:

Hi Anthony,

How does the telescope/tripod not topple over ? How is the whole thing stable on the trolley. Did you do a DIY job on this trolley?

Another problem: how do you lift the tripod and OTA on the trolley and also how do you lower tripod and OTA down on the ground where you are imaging?

Thanks.

The COG is over the centre on the trolly so its quite stable (I only move it on the flat) and the legs sit over the wheels so there is no real strain on the structure.   I dont lower the tripod to the ground, just leave it in place, the brake on the wheels stops it moving.  I plan to fit screw down legs for added protection against movement but havent go round to that yet.

 

Definately home made!

[Anthonyexmouth]

17 hours ago, sinbad40 said:

I got tired of missing the odd bits of clear sky taking everything out and setting up followed by cloud, so got a cover 365/24/7, a bigger version than the one i really needed just in case i upgraded the scope.  Couple of times it was damp inside but was given advise to get something inside just to keep the temp up under the cover, and that would sort it, and getting it off the grass would also help.

So my wife was not happy with me building a pier with the 8" galv ducting i had, didn't think it would look right or nice for some reason, couldn't be bothered arguing about it, so I just bought one.  Now installed, with everything setup under the cover.  I leave the mini PC running with the dew heaters on minimum setting, and its been like that for the last month.  I give it a check every couple of days if not getting used, and its been nice and dry.

Reading this has made me realise why I've probably never suffered with damp under my cover, I'm on a raised deck with the pier block and column isolated from it. Got 250 between the deck and the ground below so plenty of airflow and no moisture to evaporate up. 

I clad my pier in some reeds, change it every couple of years, thought it would be better than flaky paint to manage.