Going from slow-mo to a dob

[Ratlet]

I'm hitting my 40th this year and the cost controller has authorised a big ticket item (possibly related to it also being her 40th).

I'm still swithering on what to get but top of the list is (stereotypically) a 10" Dob.

I'm really enjoying visual and especially DSO's so it seems a logical choice.  This far I've been using a 130pds on an az5 and finding and tracking is a dawdle with the slow-mo.

I'm a little apprehensive about how it will go with Dob though.  Is it much of a difference?  I've tried manually pointing with precision with my scope and sticktion is a bit of an issue and it's a challenge?  Is it easier with a dob because it's designed for it?

Number 2 option for the birthday is a binoviewer.  Completely different realm to the dob, but there's loads of things I've not seen with the PDS and thinking about getting a dob gives me flashbacks to getting a lecture from my mam for asking for my pudding when I've not eaten all my dinner!

[JOC]

8 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I'm a little apprehensive about how it will go with Dob though.  Is it much of a difference?

I don't know how many you have seen, but in terms of shifting things around, don't overlook the size difference.  I can't comment on movement, but mine also has a built in Goto and you can shove it around too and I've never had any issues, though mine is an 8".

[Carbon Brush]

Can't fault you on a big-ish reflector and dob mount. Been there and got the T shirt.

As you are buying a simple scope and mount, do think about the used market.
You will get even more scope for your ££ spent😁

Do think about the size of the tube and base.
They don't go into the broom cupboard like a refractor and folded tripod🤔
Navigating from storage to use viewing area?

Keeping cost down, a Skywatcher mount (and others) are essentially melamine faced chipboard.
Every one I have encountered has benefitted from a bit of tweaking.
Poorly adjusted clutches on motor drives, rough lazy susan bearing, etc.

At the other end is an aluminium framed mount like the Orion Optics offering.
Yes they work well but they hit your wallet harder.

Now to mirror size. 8" easy to handle. 10" a bit of an effort. 12" is huge.
My experience of a Skyatcher flextube 10" (vs rigid tube) was positive.
I would definitely look at one again.

HTH, David.
 

 

 

[Mr Spock]

If you go for one of the tracking dobs they are a doddle. I had a 10" Flextube for a while and you can lift the tube with one hand  The base is more awkward than heavy.

I finally settled on a 12" StellaLyra and an EQ platform. All the tracking convenience, but, the size! I have to keep it in a shed next to the patio where it is used. I couldn't move it any farther.

As for 250mm v 130mm - 3.7x the light grasp and it's a whole new universe up there!

[Moonlit Knight]

56 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

If you go for one of the tracking dobs they are a doddle. I had a 10" Flextube for a while and you can lift the tube with one hand  The base is more awkward than heavy.

I finally settled on a 12" StellaLyra and an EQ platform. All the tracking convenience, but, the size! I have to keep it in a shed next to the patio where it is used. I couldn't move it any farther.

As for 250mm v 130mm - 3.7x the light grasp and it's a whole new universe up there!

What is the build quality like on 12 inch 

[John]

Tracking is something that can be "fettled" with dobs although many these days are well designed and work out of the box. 10 inch is a great step to make from 5.1 inch - the views of the bright globular clusters at 100x-150x alone will make you instantly forget the physical size change / money spent I think. Things that are hard / on the edge with the 130mm will become straightforward and more detailed and many other fainter things will be within reach. Even though 2 inches / 50mm does not sound much, there is a lot of difference in physical size and weight when you go to a 12 inch so think carefully about that, if tempted further.

I'll leave others to suggest brands / models etc because it's been a long time since I owned one but I think you are definitely thinking along the right lines for your 40th 👍

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by John

[cajen2]

I think you'll be very pleased with a 10" dob IF:

- you're fit and strong. I'm getting on a bit and find an 8" awkward to shift around,

- you have somewhere to store it within easy reach of your viewing area. Don't underestimate how much space it will take up. I got myself one of those small dollies on castors like they use for moving plant pots and screwed a piece of plywood to it and the dob sits on that, making it a doddle to move around inside at least.

- you're good at collimation. There's no way you can look through the focuser and adjust the knobs at the same time unless you have arms like a gorilla, so you'll need a laser collimator, Cheshire, etc.

Finally, you'll soon get used to nudging the dob without tracking. If your EPs have quite wide fields of view, this helps. I'd recommend using an RDF AND a RACI together for finding targets, especially if you suffer from light pollution.

My personal recommendation is for a StellaLyra 10": they're very well made and equipped and have extremely smooth alt/az adjustment.

[Mr Spock]

25 minutes ago, Moonlit Knight said:

What is the build quality like on 12 inch 

You can follow my thread here 

I have no idea why when you post a link it shows the wrong image???

[Moonlit Knight]

Many thanks 

[Ratlet]

That's really good feedback.  Thanks all.  Sounds like it won't be a major issue at all.

I'm very interested in a tracking mount, I've taken a break from sketching of late due to to lack of clear skies and pure greed at wanting to see more objects, but after gorging a bit I'm wanting to get a bit more organised and start sketching my observations.

Stellalyra is a forum favourite, but the Bresser seems to have been well regarded.  It also has a rotatable tube which I can see being handy.  

How are you all observing with yours?  I'm waiting on the geoptik observing chair coming in stock.  The chairs adjustable so vertically I don't see the eyepiece going anywhere awkward, but rotationally does the focuser end up in an awkward place?

[Ratlet]

And right on queue FLO have a sale...

I need to remain strong and not waver.  Should probably close the window with the Skywatcher 80ED in it in case my finger slips.  It's basically the same as my 130PDS but a refractor... I don't need it....

[Ratlet]

10 minutes later...

I guess that's me put out of my misery.  Figure with the money I save I can build myself a tracking platform and print some setting circles.

Guess I'm a dob guy now.

[Mr Spock]

That is a bargain 👍

[Zermelo]

39 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

10 minutes later...

I guess that's me put out of my misery.  Figure with the money I save I can build myself a tracking platform and print some setting circles.

Guess I'm a dob guy now.

Ah, it was you!

I clicked through and it had already gone.

[Ratlet]

8 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

Ah, it was you!

I clicked through and it had already gone.

I almost didn't.  Surprisingly the wife was more gung-ho than me.  

[bosun21]

On 28/02/2023 at 09:57, Moonlit Knight said:

What is the build quality like on 12 inch 

The build quality on the Stella Lyra 12” dobsonian is great, as is the optics. The tube alone comes in at 19.5kg and when combined with the base it’s quite a heavy beast. I just wheel it about fully assembled with my sack trolley.(pneumatic tyres help)

[bosun21]

On 28/02/2023 at 20:03, Ratlet said:

  It also has a rotatable tube which I can see being handy. 

Why? The eyepiece position doesn’t change with a dobsonian, apart from being higher or lower depending how near the zenith you are observing.

[Ratlet]

4 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Why? The eyepiece position doesn’t change with a dobsonian, apart from being higher or lower depending how near the zenith you are observing.

That's a good point.  I can't remember the last time I adjusted the position of the eyepiece with my alt-az mount.  Not quite sure what I was thinking. 😂

[Sunshine]

Unless you are planing to use the dob for planetary AP or the like I don't really find you'll miss tracking if you didn't have it on a dob. Assuming the dob has decent quality mechanical properties and can be moved smoothly with friction adjustment to help dial in your preferred friction then its a breeze just following along with your hands. Also, with fuzzies you don't use high powers which means objects are not going to be whizzing through the FOV, I really don't see a need for tracking on a dob unless you need to do AP.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Sunshine

[bosun21]

You should buy yourself an EQ platform. Mine was just completed today and is being packed and shipped Monday. I am looking forward to doing a bit of EEVA with my 12”.

 

[Ratlet]

5 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

You should buy yourself an EQ platform. Mine was just completed today and is being packed and shipped Monday. I am looking forward to doing a bit of EEVA with my 12”.

 

Definitely on the cards.  I really enjoy sketching and I think it'll be a benefit.  

Where did you get yours from?

[bosun21]

18 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

Definitely on the cards.  I really enjoy sketching and I think it'll be a benefit.  

Where did you get yours from?

I got it made to order by David Lukehurst who is an astronomical telescope maker from Nottingham. 

[Smiller]

I have one of the slightly larger 12” Goto Dobs (and Orion XT12G) and I leave it setup vertically in the garage with a scope cover and just dolly it out with a red wheeled dolly with a bit of foam on it so it doesn’t scratch.  I find that super easy.  I don’t know what your situation is but if you can keep it setup and just dolly it about, that may help.

I’ve been super happy with my Goto Dob for observing because in my suburban backyard it can be difficult to find targets and I’ve always found starhopping difficult.  However, I didn’t use setting circles which may have worked well, so I’ll admit that.

I also do like the fact I can put a target in the eyepiece and it basically stays there for several minutes as I let others look without losing it.

But goto dobs tend to hand push a bit less smoothly, they cost more, and are a bit heavier.

On the other hand you can do a bit of astrophotography with them if that interests you: Lunar is easy, planetary is not too hard with a basic planetary camera, and even a bit of deep sky due to the goto feature providing basic tracking and modern cameras allowing short exposures.  Here are some examples I’ve done with my Dob over the last year below.   EAA is also fun during social gatherings.  It takes some practice and patience, but it did open up a whole new world for me that I absolutely did not expect this telescope to be able to do.   So my goto dob is now my jack of all trades scope…. I just love it.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Smiller

[Ratlet]

16 minutes ago, Smiller said:

I have one of the slightly larger 12” Goto Dobs (and Orion XT12G) and I leave it setup vertically in the garage with a scope cover and just dolly it out with a red wheeled dolly with a bit of foam on it so it doesn’t scratch.  I find that super easy.  I don’t know what your situation is but if you can keep it setup and just dolly it about, that may help.

I’ve been super happy with my Goto Dob for observing because in my suburban backyard it can be difficult to find targets and I’ve always found starhopping difficult.  However, I didn’t use setting circles which may have worked well, so I’ll admit that.

I also do like the fact I can put a target in the eyepiece and it basically stays there for several minutes as I let others look without losing it.

But goto dobs tend to hand push a bit less smoothly, they cost more, and are a bit heavier.

On the other hand you can do a bit of astrophotography with them if that interests you: Lunar is easy, planetary is not too hard with a basic planetary camera, and even a bit of deep sky due to the goto feature providing basic tracking and modern cameras allowing short exposures.  Here are some examples I’ve done with my Dob over the last year below.   EAA is also fun during social gatherings.  It takes some practice and patience, but it did open up a whole new world for me that I absolutely did not expect this telescope to be able to do.   So my goto dob is now my jack of all trades scope…. I just love it.

 

Those are some absolutely fantastic images!

It was a tough call, but ive limited experience with goto.  My first run wasn't great and I'm currently ironing the kinks out of the az-gti.  Getting there but not got there yet.

My thinking was that there are alternatives available that can provide the functionality of goto that I can add on easily enough if I want to.  Setting circles, encoders, starsense, for example.

The only thing that then lacks is tracking.  I've got a feeling this is something I'll need to get sorted sooner or later and will basically require a tracking platform down the line.

I've got a golly with pneumatic tires which should nicely handle the dob out of the shed.  I didn't really consider the shed before I got my scope, but it's basically lived up there since purchase and it is so handy for just getting going.

[bosun21]

3 hours ago, Ratlet said:

I've got a golly with pneumatic tires

Now that would be something to see😂