Poll: GOTO / Push To or Find it yourself ?

[John]

I certainly had no bias one way of the other when I posted the question and nor have I now. With hindsight the wording "Simple Question ....." was somewhat optimistic of course 🙄

It seems to me that one of the great things about astronomy is that there are so many different ways to do it - all of them "right" 😁

Looking back at the poll (flawed though it was, I accept) the results are more or less what I expected I think. 

Thanks again for participating and apologies if some feathers have been ruffled - not my intention at all 😟

I think I'll leave until another time the polls I was intending to start on:

Is your attention span a) similar to a ferret, or b) similar to a goldfish ?

and

If we are not grinding our own mirrors and engineering our own mounts then a) we are not proper astronomers or b) we are proper astronomers, but awful crafts persons  ?

😁

 

 

[Xilman]

5 hours ago, DaveS said:

And real astronomers haven't pushed their telescopes around for a very long time, more likely to be found sitting in warm, well lit control rooms on the top of mountains.

In my case, 760/2400 of the way up to the telescopes about 11km north of here.

Though I do have a warm, well lit control room.

Whether or not I am a "real astronomer" is left as an exercise for the reader.

[RobertI]

3 hours ago, carastro said:

If you think this thread is splitting opinions, you should see some of the arguments on other forums on how ethical it is to present images where all you did was you bought the downloaded data from a hosted site  in the dessert somewhere and all you did was process it. 
 

Say no more. 
 

 

If you think THAT’S bad, just try asking what the definition of EAA is!! Post the question, stand well back and watch the thread explode. 😆

Edited February 27, 2023 by RobertI

[Mr Spock]

I'm not sure why people take things so personally, or why some are so antagonistic. Or why some need to take an opposite stance. It's just a hobby after all, and there's room for everyone 

[carastro]

Quote

If you think THAT’S bad, just try asking what the definition of EAA is!! Post the question, stand well back and watch the thread explode. 

Lol, yes I had a chat with some-one at Astrofest about that topic.  I had no idea.  

 

[jjohnson3803]

19 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

I'm not sure why people take things so personally, or why some are so antagonistic. Or why some need to take an opposite stance. It's just a hobby after all, and there's room for everyone 

😄  Spend some time around model railroaders.  There's the "Ehhh, it looks fine to me" faction and then there's the "rivet counters" who nearly have a stroke if a car (wagon) has a slightly misplaced detail.  

Edited February 27, 2023 by jjohnson3803

[Mr Spock]

Try DIY audio forums. When discussing speaker components once (I'm a designer) I commented how much clearer vocals were with one capacitor over another. The response I got was...

"Oh no, another one who listens to music".

Seriously? What the heck are speakers for???

I don't go there much these days 

[VNA]

Hello, a Go-To only, so much simpler and faster to admire various fascinating celestial objects.

Besides, you don't have to readjust constantly the scope, and then you can use a lot more magnification as long as the image is crisp.

 

That is progress!  ;- )

[John]

43 minutes ago, VNA said:

Hello, a Go-To only, so much simpler and faster to admire various fascinating celestial objects.

Besides, you don't have to readjust constantly the scope, and then you can use a lot more magnification as long as the image is crisp.

 

That is progress!  ;- )

Sounds ideal 👍

I had a GOTO system back in the mid 1980's (Vixen Skysensor) which did similar things, so they have been around a few years. Their function and capability has been improved a huge amount today though 🙂

 

[Moonlit Knight]

18 hours ago, jetstream said:

I challenge you to an astro duel Sir!!🙂

We'll leave the red torch and Turn Left at Orion at home and we'll use a 1 deg TVOV and go find some stuff- you in?

Of course manually, no goto ,push too, just skill.

What scope(s) do you use ?

Absolutely 

[wesdon1]

I use a GoTo system on my HEQ5. It's just so much more convenient when it's below zero and I need to utilise as much of my outside time as possible to gather as much data on a target as possible. I live on the 3rd floor of flats, with no lift, so every session involves carrying the very heavy HEQ5 mount, the 'scope, cameras, power box, everything, down all the stairs, and have to remain outside constantly, for fear of my expensive gear being stolen or damaged! Then carry everything back up the stairs, all in one go, I hasten to add! So the GoTo systems are a God send for me personally!

Wes, Liverpool ( Bortle 7 )

[carastro]

12 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

I use a GoTo system on my HEQ5. It's just so much more convenient when it's below zero and I need to utilise as much of my outside time as possible to gather as much data on a target as possible. I live on the 3rd floor of flats, with no lift, so every session involves carrying the very heavy HEQ5 mount, the 'scope, cameras, power box, everything, down all the stairs, and have to remain outside constantly, for fear of my expensive gear being stolen or damaged! Then carry everything back up the stairs, all in one go, I hasten to add! So the GoTo systems are a God send for me personally!

Wes, Liverpool ( Bortle 7 )

Crumbs sounds a real ordeal.  Well done for persevering.

Carole  

Edited February 28, 2023 by carastro

[jock1958]

On 26/02/2023 at 22:19, Second Time Around said:

Initially, I used a Nexus push to with encoders, but have now switched to Celestron's Starsense Explorer.  I've since adapted the latter to fit into a standard Synta finder shoe and so it can be used with all my scopes.  A search on the forum will show lots of ways to do this.

Two reasons why I prefer Starsense Explorer to the Nexus is that the former can be moved around my garden without needing realignment.  I also find I can set up Starsense Explorer quicker in the first place, especially in part cloudy skies.

Hi Steve can't believe I've missed this piece of technology, thanks for the heads up!  

From what I've read it seems so easy to use and would really suit my style of observing, it's just a pity they don't sell the phone holder and unlock key separately then I'd carry out a DIY job and attach it to the spare side of my Skytee 2.

[JeremyS]

Only just alighted on this little hornets nest of a thread 😊

I always use goto with my C11 which is dedicated to VS photometry 

For  visual:

If using my AZEQ6 I always use goto whatever OTA is used.

if using my AZ100 or ScopeTech Zero is always use push to (no goto)

I am not a real astronomer, though. More like a synthetic one. Some might say surreal.

 

[JeremyS]

20 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

I'm not sure why people take things so personally, or why some are so antagonistic. Or why some need to take an opposite stance. It's just a hobby after all, and there's room for everyone 

Really? 🤣

[jetstream]

3 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

I am not a real astronomer, though

Me neither- my TAK guides me through the sky

You know how it is 😀

[HollyHound]

I'm very happy having access to a decent "Push To" system now (AZ100 with Nexus DSC)... it makes short(er) sessions much easier and allows me to view stuff that would be quite onerous to find manually... If I had more time and fancied a challenge, then would be happy (and have) to star hop.

I have got my iOptron AZ Mount, which is full Goto (and tracking), which I use less now, but did use quite a bit when I first got started.

Having said that, most of my sessions these days are using the Tak 76 on the ScopeTech, grabbing a quick session when I can.

All methods work and have their place 👍

[Mr Spock]

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

Really?

Unless you are a part of a clique...

[jjohnson3803]

In the interest of full disclosure, I did install AstroDevices encoders on my Twilight-1 mount that I used with SkySafari on my phone.  They usually worked well with just an occasional glitch and I was able to find fainter objects a lot faster than without push-to.  But I sold the mount and the encoders with it, so I'm back to a DIY az circle and a digital Wixey for altitude, using alt/az from SS.

I can't say I miss the initial WiFi, etc, set-up that I had to do when using the encoders.  It wasn't difficult, but it was yet another distraction before being able to observe.  And aside from two AA batteries (one for Wixey and one for red torch), I don't need to power or charge anything now before observing.

Anyway, whether you love or hate technology, anything that gets people out and observing or photographing the sky is a good thing IMO.  

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by jjohnson3803

[Moonlit Knight]

On 27/02/2023 at 15:25, John said:

🙄

😁

😟

I think I'll leave until another time the polls I was intending to start on:

Is your attention span a) similar to a ferret, or b) similar to a goldfish ?

😁

 

 

Goldfish have a memory problem, they can attend to anything extremely well, just for only a few seconds at a time. Ferrets however, no matter where they are, always want to somewhere else.

I think most of us could spend a little more time at the eyepiece, we rush around enough as it is. 

[SuburbanMak]

First of all, great to see you back @John!  

I replied in the "often use GoTo" option here. 

As often as not I align the GoTo because I want to use accurate tracking to keep objects in the field of my somewhat narrow Mak 127.  Equally if the batteries go down I am perfectly prepared to star-hop and refer to charts (just as I use a GPS in the mountains and at sea but am very sure I can find my way home with a map/chart & compass if the batteries go out!).    

When I bought it I naively thought that GoTo would solve all location challenges and, provided its carefully set up (particularly levelling), then it absolutely delivers this on bright targets, however, if you are looking for faint things at the 'scope's limits then you still need to know the starfield you are looking for and in that scenario I'd typically use GoTo to give me a known waypoint for a planned star hop - a local bright star for example. I think the difference is that this kind of observing means the chart-work takes place in advance and you don't then need to reference them so much out in the dark. Although there have been targets that I've either made a sketch of the FoV or taken a photo of the relevant section of the chart to reference on my (red filtered and hugely dimmed) phone in the field.

GoTo is a tool that helps the observer spend as much time as possible observing rather than hunting the target, its use requires a skillset all of its own and it combines well with traditional starhopping. 

With my Dob, which is all manual, I tend to look deeper and longer at fewer targets that are manually found - very satisfying & a different kind of session. Sometimes with my ST80 I like to just sweep around manually with a  widefield and then identify what catches my eye, equally if I am feeling lazy, GoTo on a widefield 'scope can be enormous fun taking an easy "tour" of favourites that plop straight into the eyepiece with every slew.    I get a particular thrill from seeing my 120 year old brass Clarkson 3" f15 slewing around the sky on a computerised wi-fi powered GoTo, very steampunk!

None of these things constitute value judgements about the quality of those experiences, nor the  skills required for proficiency, nor does any one approach threaten another, they are just different ways to enjoy being out under the stars.

Sometimes I like a kebab, sometimes I like a formal meal, sometimes I like to spend all afternoon cooking...inherently subjective & situational as to who enjoys what the most and no one taste is necessarily "better" than another.  

Great thread though - clear skies!

 

 

 

[Nakedgun]

On 24/02/2023 at 18:26, John said:

As per the poll heading, I am interested where the balance lies these days.

Thanks if you feel able to respond 🙂

I have posted my vote.

~

The available choices prevent a response to your poll.

 

 

.

 

 

[John]

Many thanks for the continued interest in this topic even if you felt that you could not cast a vote. 

Through the comments posted I understand much more about the various approaches that people use to acquiring targets to observe / image now 🙂

 

[Sunshine]

Starsense Starsense Starsense! that is the balance I have always wanted, a push to dob with an accurate no fuss no adding electronics or digital circles or any other bits and bobs. Starsense is revolutionary, a system which allows me to push to while the app on the phone flawlessly guides my hand to the target. Time and time again over the last few months it has worked, even when stars are just coming out and barely visible, it finds its position and plate solves accurately. Do I work for Celestron? no, I just know a revolutionary pointing system when I see one, I also know at least 6 people who have put the phone module on their larger dobs with equal success and satisfaction. This past summer at  large star party I found myself doing more starsense demonstrations than looking through it myself. Every time I would show one person, they would end up coming back with two more people eager to see, I heard comments like "this is amazing" time and again. There isn't a more perfect combination of a traditional push to dob with a state of the art assistance.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Sunshine

[saac]

On 25/02/2023 at 13:34, Louis D said:

  Almost no professional astronomers own their own equipment these days.

That's me then still paying off credit card  

Jim