Poll: GOTO / Push To or Find it yourself ?

[John]

10 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Am I missing something with the vote questions John? Q) I often/always use go-to or push to.

Q) I do not use go-to / push to. 

I'm not sure if that answers how many do and how many don't use one or the other. If the latter question is ticked, doesn't it imply the scope doesn't move at all? Surely one or the other must be used, even when dialling in coordinates using setting circles? 

 

The term "push to" as I use it here Mike means a system that guides the observer to a specified target though the use of directions. The slewing power is human rather than motorised as it is with a GOTO system.

Apologies if the questions lack clarity. Feel free not to respond of course 🙂

 

[Spile]

I star hop from SkySafari looking through my RACI.

[Steve Ward]

At night then Go-To , for my Solar stuff obviously not ... 

[DaveL59]

While I have an EQ5 goto I generally use the adapted Starsense/mobile these days, unless I'm hitting easy targets like the major planets, then just let the Goto or the dual-motor EQ5 mount track on the RA having set them roughly polar aligned. Same works for the old SW130EQ2 too. Quick and convenient and with the odd minor tweak to account for any alignment error/drift it works pretty well.

[Second Time Around]

My first time around from the age of 12 I had no instruments so had to learn my way around the sky just with my naked eyes.  That helped when I eventually got a small scope, and in those days the only option with it was manual starhopping.

Fast forward several decades to my second time around and those early experiences held me in good stead.  I could still find my way around the sky even when only a few stars were visible because of cloud, and could still find many of the brighter DSOs without a star atlas.

Nowadays because of poor health my observing sessions are much shorter.  Occasionally I still starhop and still do enjoy the thrill of the chase.  However, the vast majority of the time I use a push to system.

This is simply because by doing so I can see way more objects in these short sessions.

Initially, I used a Nexus push to with encoders, but have now switched to Celestron's Starsense Explorer.  I've since adapted the latter to fit into a standard Synta finder shoe and so it can be used with all my scopes.  A search on the forum will show lots of ways to do this.

Two reasons why I prefer Starsense Explorer to the Nexus (and for that matter to a Go-To) is that the former can be moved around my garden without needing realignment.  I also find I can set up Starsense Explorer quicker in the first place, especially in part cloudy skies.

What I don't agree with is that unless you starhop you're cheating.  As I said earlier I can indeed starhop, but most of the time I prefer not to.

 

Edited March 6 by Second Time Around
Added about Go-To

[Paz]

I find things manually, originally using maps and later moving to using sky safari. The only electronics in my set ups are using a RA motor on my equatorial mount and a heater for my Quark.

I enjoy finding things and I try to build my knowledge of the sky over time.

Sometimes I've done epic star hops across barren parts of the sky that take quite some time to navigate to observe something like an obscure double star that nobody cares about and I get a fine sense of achievement.

I have seen goto in action at outreach events and meet ups and I have been very impressed at how you can hit any target quickly. Yes I can go straight to quite a few objects from memory but not hundreds or thousands of them!

At the moment I am still happy with manual  but I would not rule goto out in the future.

Edited February 26 by Paz

[Dave-P]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

Am I missing something with the vote questions John? Q) I often/always use go-to or push to.

Q) I do not use go-to / push to. 

I'm not sure if that answers how many do and how many don't use one or the other. If the latter question is ticked, doesn't it imply the scope doesn't move at all? Surely one or the other must be used, even when dialling in coordinates using setting circles? 

 

John should have included an "I am a pedant" option 😀

[adyj1]

9 hours ago, Moonlit Knight said:

It's a symptom of a culture that wants evening now, instant gratification at the experience of experience and rote learning. The different between Stargazing and Astronomy...

 

13 hours ago, Moonlit Knight said:

Interesting, more people use goto that bother to learn the night sky.

I got the impression you viewed the outcome of this poll as confirmation of your opinion about the use of goto. I guess I assumed you were extrapolating the number of people who 'bother to learn the night sky' from the poll. 

Anyway, I use goto exclusively now but when I was a novice I learned the night sky and can star-hop proficiently. 

[MalcolmM]

I always use manual.  For me, as others have mentioned,  part of the fun is the hunt. And there is huge satisfaction in eventually finding the target. And when I say eventually,  I mean it; sometimes I can spend half an hour on the chase!

Malcolm 

[Moonlit Knight]

7 hours ago, adyj1 said:

 

I got the impression you viewed the outcome of this poll as confirmation of your opinion about the use of goto. I guess I assumed you were extrapolating the number of people who 'bother to learn the night sky' from the poll. 

Anyway, I use goto exclusively now but when I was a novice I learned the night sky and can star-hop proficiently. 

Good god no, absolutely not. I would have thought it would have been exactly the other way around, I couldn’t believe it. I think it’s all very sad. 

[Moonlit Knight]

11 hours ago, Louis D said:

what other choice does one have?

A red torch, a copy of turn left at Orion and an attention span longer than that a ferret might possess 

[jock1958]

As a purely Alt / Az visual observer it’s more of a push to the target then slo mo controls to track it. To find I use maps, apps, star hopping, optical & red dot finders. 
 

[Xilman]

I have no choice but to use GOTO on my main scope.

Binoculars, never GOTO.

[John]

Many thanks again for the poll votes and / or the interesting comments posted 👍

 

[DaveS]

I'm getting more than somewhat irked by the manifest distain shown to those of us who's astronomy pretty much depends on GOTO and plate solving.

Apparently we are too bone idle to learn the sky, well when I was a kid I took every opportunity of a clear night to go out with my little Hamlyn astronomy book and learn at least one new constellation each night. I still know my way around.

And we have the attention span of a ferret. Humph, believe me, getting even a high end automated rig running reliably enough that it can be left to its own devices takes the attention span of a Pak Protector, not a ferret.

We also apparently want instant gratification. The nearest I get to that is carrying out a trial stack the next morning, most of my images take a lot of nights, some of them over 2-3 years. I don't know if you call that instant, I don't.

And real astronomers haven't pushed their telescopes around for a very long time, more likely to be found sitting in warm, well lit control rooms on the top of mountains.

Rant over.

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, Moonlit Knight said:

A red torch, a copy of turn left at Orion and an attention span longer than that a ferret might possess 

I challenge you to an astro duel Sir!!🙂

We'll leave the red torch and Turn Left at Orion at home and we'll use a 1 deg TVOV and go find some stuff- you in?

Of course manually, no goto ,push too, just skill.

What scope(s) do you use ?

Edited February 27 by jetstream

[mikeDnight]

15 hours ago, John said:

The term "push to" as I use it here Mike means a system that guides the observer to a specified target though the use of directions. The slewing power is human rather than motorised as it is with a GOTO system.

Apologies if the questions lack clarity. Feel free not to respond of course 🙂

 

Thanks for the clarification John. You must have typed the original questions too quickly for me to keep up. Sorry! 

[Giles_B]

I think there is a false dichotomy here between using push-to / go-to to assist finding astronomical objects, and learning the night sky.

I got into the hobby around lockdown, so a couple of years ago, and from the start have used the Celestron StarSense tech to get around, unless I am looking for something very obvious like the bright planets. However, I do find that I am also gradually learning the sky despite this reliance on technology - perhaps this is not in the immersive, all or nothing, sense that comes from being under the skies exclusively with a red light and a star map, but for me the star map comes on the journey as well, and is part of the overall experience. I'll spend time at the eyepiece, and time sitting back and looking at the sky in its entirety.

These are not mutually exclusive activities.

Edited February 27 by Giles_B

[Space Hopper]

For me, its mainly push to, although i do have the motorised goto option as well.

Usually, when visual observing, i'm out with a basic, easy to use alt-az mount with encoders feeding a Nexus DSC.

The Nexus DSC is really revolutionised my visual astronomy.  I really would not want to be without it. Time is too short.

And i'm learning the geography of the heavens while I use it !! 

[globular]

Takes a break from the forum for what felt like far too long. Comes back and starts a thread that presses all the right buttons in all the right people. Almost as if he planned it all along?

I, for one, am so glad you're back John 

[mikeDnight]

13 hours ago, Dave-P said:

John should have included an "I am a pedant" option 😀

  It's been a few decades since my university days Dave, so I had to look that one up. 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

6 hours ago, Moonlit Knight said:

Good god no, absolutely not. I would have thought it would have been exactly the other way around, I couldn’t believe it. I think it’s all very sad. 

For a minute I thought I'd clicked on the Fogies' thread in the Lounge...

If technology is cheap and abundant enough for people to own, who are interested in astronomy but may not have the time or decent skies to get involved or continue their journey, then the situation is far from "sad". The more the merrier.

GoTo systems are not easy mode. Many a newbie has been warned to think carefully before purchasing these systems because there is a learning curve and some troubleshooting or even tinkering may be required.

We are not all the same. As described elsewhere in the thread, some like the 'thrill' of the hunt. Personally, I learnt how to use maps/star hop and still do occasionally especially when binocular observing, however during those few great nights when I'm at the telescope for hours, I'd rather find an object quickly.

Using GoTo doesn't mean I have the attention span of a goldfish. The time saved is used to observe as much detail as I can, read up at the eyepiece and write notes (with actual old fashioned pencil and paper 😱) Using a GoTo system with accurate tracking is a very relaxed way to study. One can even switch to using a camera very easily on the fly for casual DSLR or afocal mobile phone photography at least.

Just about every session I learn something new. Isn't that utimately what amateur astronomy is about?

 

Edited February 27 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[markse68]

If I had skies where I could see more than 10 stars in Orion, I think the idea of learning the sky would be wonderful. Unfortunately I don't and the Starsense explorer turns what would be a very frustrating time into a thoroughly enjoyable one  I have starhopped on occasion and it is an enjoyable challenge but I couldn't do it for every target. Of course there are targets that I know the position of and can find easily without any aid but I don't always want to look at the same things

Mark

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

4 minutes ago, markse68 said:

If I had skies where I could see more than 10 stars in Orion, I think the idea of learning the sky would be wonderful. Unfortunately I don't and the Starsense explorer turns what would be a very frustrating time into a thoroughly enjoyable one  I have starhopped on occasion and it is an enjoyable challenge but I couldn't do it for every target. Of course there are targets that I know the position of and can find easily without any aid but I don't always want to look at the same things

Mark

Each to their own Mark. You are taking part and that to me, is what's important. There are some regressive attitudes in this thread. Next we will be getting told unless we are grinding our own mirrors and engineering  mounts from scrap metal we aren't doing it right. 😴

Edited February 27 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[carastro]

If you think this thread is splitting opinions, you should see some of the arguments on other forums on how ethical it is to present images where all you did was  buy the downloaded data from a hosted site  in the dessert somewhere and all you did was process it. 
 

Say no more. 
 

 

Edited February 27 by carastro