Truely new beginners seeks advise

[Taichou]

Hello all,

my son (6 years) and I want to get our first telescope. My son is really interested in astronomy and nearly memorized all planets with their moons and wants to have his first telescope. Unfortunately, I don't have any knowledge about telescopes and don't know what would fit our needs.

What is important to us:

- easy to use, I have seen there are wifi mounts which looks very great for the new generation, who is used to control everything via phone/tablet (I am aware that we will not learn the sky in the same manner as we would use a manually driven scope, but hopefully that will come later on, when we get familiar with scopes)

- in the beginning focus on moon and planets, but would be great to see some bright DSOs like Andromeda, double stars (we would love to see Jupiter with moons and saturns ring)

- the possibility to take pictures with decent quality (first by phone later on with cameras, who knows :)) - my son loves to take pictures and print them later on, he is very creative and makes his own things. When I said that he will get a telescope, he was so happy but asked if there is a print option

- dont need to be portable

We live in Denmark and the options to get telescopes are not big. However I have found following one:

- Skywatcher Star Discovery P150i wifi goto https://www.astrosweden.se/sv/articles/2.3136.13112/sky-watcher-star-discovery-p150i-wi-fi-goto-teleskop

- Skywatcher Skymax 127 AZ-GTI wifi goto https://www.astrosweden.se/sv/articles/2.3797.10843/sky-watcher-skymax-127-pa-az-gti-wifi-goto-montering

- Skywatcher Explorer 130PS AZ-GTI wifi goto https://www.astrosweden.se/sv/articles/2.3797.10840/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-pa-az-gti-wifi-goto-montering

It would be really great to hear what you think and what we should go for. I know there is a price difference here, but that is secondary. We want to have a good start into our own astronomy journey. Please suggest other options too.

I have read some posts about collimation. I dont know what that is and wanted to know which of these above does not need it

 

Big thanks in advance.

[Mr H in Yorkshire]

Not the advice you want maybe but you did ask for other options. The app 'Skysafari' on a smartphone and a reasonable pair of  binos will go a long way to getting you started, as well as helping you learn what's out there.  It is too easy to spend a greater amount of money and yet be disappointed because your investment does not yield the expected results. This is because expectations can be misled by seeing all the amazing photos that are published, most of which have been made on multi thousand pound rigs.

[Taichou]

Please all advice is appreciated. Have you any links to a reasonable pair of binos? That could definitely be a good start, but I know my son and he is really excited for his first scope 

 

[M40]

Hello Taichou and welcome to the site 👌

Of the three, my recommendation would be the skymax. Whilst the others have a larger aperture, the skymax has the eyepiece at the base of the telescope and will probably be easier for your son to use. It will have a longer cool down time but at the same time you will hopefully never need to collimate it. You will definately need a dew shield and can I also suggest a moon filter. All the best. 

[Elp]

If you're going to keep it at home I'd suggest a dobsonian as you'll be able to get a large aperture which is required to see DSO targets (don't know what your light pollution is like or what bortle zone you live in). If you just want to see solar system objects the skymax would be okay, with the azgti you can pair it to the skysafari pro mobile app and can look up objects in the app (the default controller app for the azgti SW synscan app doesn't have a visual stellarium built in but a list of objects) and point and track.

The third scope in your list I think might be too much for the azgti supplied on that tripod, vibrations might be an issue (it ruins the experience as any movement will make the object appear like smeared lines of light). Ive used a 130pds on such a setup, probably a heavier scope but the issue remains due to the large surface area of the scope it acts like a wind sail and magnifies any breeze through the whole rig.

Binoculars will be a good and relatively cheaper start, again you'll need to mount it to a tripod to get a good comfortable viewing experience.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Elp

[Taichou]

1 hour ago, M40 said:

Hello Taichou and welcome to the site 👌

Of the three, my recommendation would be the skymax. Whilst the others have a larger aperture, the skymax has the eyepiece at the base of the telescope and will probably be easier for your son to use. It will have a longer cool down time but at the same time you will hopefully never need to collimate it. You will definately need a dew shield and can I also suggest a moon filter. All the best. 

Thank you very much

My gut says also to go with the Mak 127. It is very true that it will be easier for my son to use it. And I like the compact size of it. Do you think that I would need a barlow or is the magnification with the included EP good enough for planets? Can you suggest a good moon filter (probably it does not matter so much)?

[Taichou]

We live in the outskirts of Copenhagen. It is not soo bad but still would guess bortle 5.

[M40]

12 minutes ago, Taichou said:

 Do you think that I would need a barlow or is the magnification with the included EP good enough for planets? Can you suggest a good moon filter 

Have a look at this link from first light optics which I think is the telescope you are looking at.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

The Dew shield and moon filter shown are perfect. I also have a more expensive moon filter but I prefer this one. A red head torch would also be a good buy. I wouldn't worry about eyepieces or barlow until you have your hands on it, starting up the supplied eyepieces are fine. All the best.

[Zermelo]

Hello, welcome to SGL.

You might want to have a look at this current post, which is asking for similar advice and has already had a few responses.

12 minutes ago, Taichou said:

Do you think that I would need a barlow or is the magnification with the included EP good enough for planets?

The Skymax has a 1500mm focal length, so a 10mm eyepiece will give you x150, which will be good for planets in reasonable observing conditions. In very good conditions, you might want to go a little higher for Saturn and Mars, but I would try it out with the stock eyepieces first before you start thinking about extras (when you do, have a look at this guide).

20 minutes ago, Taichou said:

Can you suggest a good moon filter (probably it does not matter so much)?

You don't need to spend much on a moon filter, but a variable polarizing model is useful as it lets you vary the brightness:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/moon-neutral-density-filters/astro-essentials-variable-polarising-moon-filter.html

 

[Taichou]

I have to see what I can order from Flo. Unfortunately, we have the customs issue after Brexit.

I have found this polarizing filter and I guess this is a good one too:

https://www.astrosweden.se/sv/articles/2.211.650/variabelt-polariserande-filter-125-tum-och-2-tum

[Taichou]

So its done. Have ordered the Skymax 127 az-gti wifi with a dew shield and a polarizing moon filter. Now we wait for delivery

I have been outside couple of minutes ago and the sky was astonishing very clear and many stars, oh boy I would have loved to have the scope today

Thanks everyone for the help, great forum. Will definitely read a lot to learn and improve.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Taichou said:

So its done. Have ordered the Skymax 127 az-gti wifi with a dew shield and a polarizing moon filter. Now we wait for delivery

I have been outside couple of minutes ago and the sky was astonishing very clear and many stars, oh boy I would have loved to have the scope today

Thanks everyone for the help, great forum. Will definitely read a lot to learn and improve.

Well just bare in mind that with every scope purchase comes a free 2 week supply of clouds LOL. 

[cajen2]

Personally, I think that's a nice little system. The 127 Mak fights above its weight and will give you great views of what you and your son want to see - the Moon and planets. You'll be able to use the AZ-GTi manually at first and when you're used to it, make use of its go-to ability to find other targets. Nice choice if you don't mind the narrow FOV.

Edited January 27, 2023 by cajen2

[great_bear]

On 27/01/2023 at 11:17, Elp said:

The third scope in your list I think might be too much for the azgti supplied on that tripod

That is not the case. 

The 130PDS is listed at 4Kg but the 130P is different. I put one on the bathroon scales last week when I was weighing all my scopes.

It registered 0Kg. Clearly it can’t be weightless - it’s just less than my bathroom scales could measure. 

The 130P scopes are very, very light. In a gust they can wobble, but they settle down  immediately, unlike heavier scopes. 
 

[EDIT: Just weighted using kitchen scales - 3.1Kg, so not worlds apart from the PDS version - the 0Kg reading must be a ‘feature’ of the bathroom scales]

Edited January 28, 2023 by great_bear

[Mandy D]

@great_bear it must be one of those new space telescope versions.

[Nyctimene]

Just controlled the weight of my 130 P Flextube with the kitchen scales - 2996 grams, with RDF (and PTFE tape ;-)), but without lid or shroud. Really lightweight for 5.1" aperture.

Stephan

[Taichou]

12 hours ago, cajen2 said:

Personally, I think that's a nice little system. The 127 Mak fights above its weight and will give you great views of what you and your son want to see - the Moon and planets. You'll be able to use the AZ-GTi manually at first and when you're used to it, make use of its go-to ability to find other targets. Nice choice if you don't mind the narrow FOV.

Thank you. We will definitely enjoy it. I think I dont mind/care the FOV. This will be our first scope, and dont know what to expect and cannot compare to anything else. So we will enjoy

 

[Taichou]

14 hours ago, Mike Q said:

Well just bare in mind that with every scope purchase comes a free 2 week supply of clouds LOL. 

Haha, in Denmark expect 1 month at least lol. We have not seen the sun for 3 weeks 😊

[DSviewer]

Hi there a good start as well is something like SkySafari and good pair of binos or a 2nd hand telescope that way yo get to know the sky a little and see before outlaying too much. Celestron Aspire as an example

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Taichou said:

Haha, in Denmark expect 1 month at least lol. We have not seen the sun for 3 weeks 😊

I am in the American mid west.  Our cloudy season started at the end of November, I have had two nights that were observable.  Ohio is in the top ten cloudiest States.  

[great_bear]

57 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

Just controlled the weight of my 130 P Flextube with the kitchen scales - 2996 grams, with RDF (and PTFE tape ;-)), but without lid or shroud. Really lightweight for 5.1" aperture.

Stephan

Yeah I should really weigh mine on the kitchen scales. The bathroom ones might not kick-in unless a certain threshold is met. I’ve weighed the cats before (moggies, not telescopes) but I did that by stepping on the scales holding each cat, and then sleighing myself without any cat, and doing the maths. 

[great_bear]

15 minutes ago, great_bear said:

Yeah I should really weigh mine on the kitchen scales. The bathroom ones might not kick-in unless a certain threshold is met. I’ve weighed the cats before (moggies, not telescopes) but I did that by stepping on the scales holding each cat, and then sleighing myself without any cat, and doing the maths. 

OK now done using the kitchen scales.
The standard 130P weighs 3.1Kg - so not as light as I thought!

Edited January 28, 2023 by great_bear

[Taichou]

Hi all,

I received my telescope today  Great piece of equipment, I have not used the wifi function yet but could observe the moon couple of minutes with the 25mm EP, really beautiful (picture with bad smartphone and shaking hands 😁) 

I have a question regarding the polarizing moon filter. I don´t understand how to install it. It fits to the other end of the metal connector of the EP, but would then be in the prism (I dont know if thats the correct word where you put the EP in). Do you have to pull the EP every time out to adjust the brightness of the filter?

Edited January 31, 2023 by Taichou

[Pixies]

14 hours ago, Taichou said:

Hi all,

I received my telescope today  Great piece of equipment, I have not used the wifi function yet but could observe the moon couple of minutes with the 25mm EP, really beautiful (picture with bad smartphone and shaking hands 😁) 

I have a question regarding the polarizing moon filter. I don´t understand how to install it. It fits to the other end of the metal connector of the EP, but would then be in the prism (I dont know if thats the correct word where you put the EP in). Do you have to pull the EP every time out to adjust the brightness of the filter?

Yes - that's  correct.

But see here: 

 

 

[Taichou]

Thanks everybody for your help. I find it ok to take out the EP and adjust filter and put it in again now.

I have another question regarding EP. I want to upgrade the 10mm one as I don´t think it is a good one. I have had some nights where I tried to observe Jupiter. I can vaguely see Jupiters band and the moons (in comparison my kids only see a white disk :)). I wear spectacles and I need to put them away because the eye relief is really bad.

Now I want to update the EP and have read that the BST Starguider are good (Baader Hyperion are too expensive). Unfortunately, I live in Denmark and cannot find any shops selling the BST, and importing them from UK is out of option due to customs and so on. Does anyone know if the BST can be bought in the EU.

Which EP should I buy for my Skymax 127? I want to go for a 9mm, should I get also a 5mm (its mainly for planet observation)?

Is the BST starguider and Agena Starguider the same? Probably I will visit the US in couple of month, and I probably could purchase the Agena EPs.