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Which Telescope would you get?


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6 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

I don't see the connection, to be honest.

A Devil's Advocate plays a role iwhich he/she does not follow in practice. I hope this makes the parallel clearer.

I will often ask apparently "naive" questions, to which I think I may already know the answer, in order to draw out further information of which I may, or may not, be already aware.

This rhetorical approach has been used to great effect for well over 2000 years now.

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On 19/12/2022 at 08:03, Karl Perera said:

I'm looking to get answers to this for the content I am writing on my website and your opinions would be really appreciated!

Thanks!

We could be completely misjudging the OP, but one is getting the impression that he wants to pick our brains so that he can write a feature on AP to enhance his online brand.  

If he was actually qualified to write such a feature, he shouldn't need to ask us anything.  One would prefer to see material from imagers who got their experience at first hand.

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1 hour ago, Xilman said:

A Devil's Advocate plays a role iwhich he/she does not follow in practice. I hope this makes the parallel clearer.

I will often ask apparently "naive" questions, to which I think I may already know the answer, in order to draw out further information of which I may, or may not, be already aware.

This rhetorical approach has been used to great effect for well over 2000 years now.

Indeed.  It just wasn't obvious to me that this was your rhetorical device, for which I apologize.

47 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

We could be completely misjudging the OP, but one is getting the impression that he wants to pick our brains so that he can write a feature on AP to enhance his online brand.  

If he was actually qualified to write such a feature, he shouldn't need to ask us anything.  One would prefer to see material from imagers who got their experience at first hand.

We could be misjudging the OP, as you suggest, but I'm not entirely sure how we might be making such an error. He says, 'I am mainly thinking of DSO ie. small or wide-field nebulae and galaxies.'  I cannot for the life of me see why a person who does not know the difference between the imaging of small nebulae...

 

M76%20SXT-600x369.jpg

...widefield nebulae...

M45%20WIDE%20RESHOT%20WEB-600x485.jpg

...or galaxies...

M51%20LRGB%20BXT%20FIN-600x403.jpg

...should feel the need to publish information on this subject when those who do know have done so already.

Olly

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2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

That is like asking, 'What car would you buy for club racing, track days, towing a caravan and collecting materials for building a new house?'  The question cannot be answered.

May I ask you a blunt question? I don't wish to be rude, but if you don't know this, why are you writing an article about astrophotography?

Olly

I am equally perplexed - why would someone that obviously (clear from this thread) has no experience and no clue about astrophotography start a web site and give advice? Who would it benefit?

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3 minutes ago, gorann said:

I am equally perplexed - why would someone that obviously (clear from this thread) has no experience and no clue about astrophotography start a web site and give advice? Who would it benefit?

It is not uncommon for people to start a website on some particular topic that they might not know much about. Intent is to earn money from traffic and advertising.

I could for example start website on snowboarding. Write some texts after some research online and put a lot of adverts for snowboarding equipment in order to earn revenue.

Given that I know almost nothing about snowboarding - I would have no idea how complex topic is when I start researching it and might mistake it for rather simple endeavor. "Get some ski clothing, snowboard and hit the mountains, and yes, check our sponsor along the way ..." :D

 

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On the topic of dubious articles, just google "best telescope 2022". Guarantee that you will not find a useful article (nor is the question answerable, but you will not find this information either).

This here is the best telescope in the world apparently:

272772174_Besttelescopeintheworld.JPG.7f63efdb51aa2e3be286a41784cbcd51.JPG

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/buying-guides/best-telescopes-for-astrophotography

If you read the incredible work of fiction a little bit you will come up with this:

Quote

The optical performance is very good, with no major visual defects visible and we enjoyed the stunning contrast and clarity in the field of view. 

and

Quote

Overall, the package is a sound choice as a first serious telescope for astrophotography. And, if you're a complete beginner, practice and patience will help you to yield some impressive images

Anyone who has been within 10m of an astromaster 130 and especially the mount it comes on will be able to tell you that this is complete nonsense.

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13 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

I don't see the connection, to be honest. I just feel that social media are full of tutorials made by beginners who - OK, I'll say it - don't know what they are talking about. Yes, I know I take an unfashionable view of this.

Olly

I wish not to be rude as I can only choose to assume the guy has best intentions, but the guy's website has a lot of clickbaity articles and based on the fact he is asking here for info, they probably aren't very useful. I did see one featuring a focusing mask made from chicken mesh (!?!). At least he seems to genuinely be doing the astrophotography and isn't just spamming articles wihout even touching a telescope, but in the end if someone wanted to know "what camera settings for astro" or "best camera for astro" or "best first telescope", they'd be better off if the website had links to relevant SGL and CN forum threads. I suppose researching threads, writing about conclusions from them and using the threads as references, academic style would work though?

I know I gave up on articles for hobby advice years and years ago. Youtube can be good, forums are best, but articles are so much more likely to be clickbaity rubbish written by someone who barely knows the subject at best, or plain written by a computer (machine learning) at worst.

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2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Just recently we discussed the fact that people even use AI to write articles for them:

 

A friend of mine found a website that did just this, for Linux tutorials.

They were incomprehensible, wrong, repeated themselves. Totally useless, but they were able to get themselves onto the first page of google!

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Very harsh guys. I, of course, accept your comments but actually best to just check my website and see if you can view it fairly. My intent is to help those trying to get into the hobby. I have two years' experience and go out on every occasion with my astro rig. I am actually a teacher so I feel the need to educate others and am trying to help others avoid my mistakes. All your points I take but I only tried to get your opinions though I am sure of my answers.

For a website, research may enhance what I have to say. There is plenty of experience in my writing. Go read some of my articles and then comment on what is there. I am a bit shocked at the way I have been judged here but fair enough, no offence taken.

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I looked on your website and the content looks good, not sure why you're asking for advice as you seem to have already come a long way on your astro journey. Your images are miles better than any of my attempts and also, just for the record, I saw no links to any sort of advertising. Keep up the good work.

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2 hours ago, Karl Perera said:

Very harsh guys. I, of course, accept your comments but actually best to just check my website and see if you can view it fairly. My intent is to help those trying to get into the hobby. I have two years' experience and go out on every occasion with my astro rig. I am actually a teacher so I feel the need to educate others and am trying to help others avoid my mistakes. All your points I take but I only tried to get your opinions though I am sure of my answers.

For a website, research may enhance what I have to say. There is plenty of experience in my writing. Go read some of my articles and then comment on what is there. I am a bit shocked at the way I have been judged here but fair enough, no offence taken.

In that case, I feel that your approach is maybe wrong?

I'd be happy to answer any genuine questions that you personally have in order to deepen your knowledge and as you already know - from the dept of ones knowledge comes ability to educate others.

Why would you post poll about shooting under the bright moon instead of having discussion about impact of light pollution on the SNR of the image and impact of the brightness of the moon on the light pollution?

First will give you just bunch of opinions (and their worth is questionable as anyone can have an opinion) and other will possibly provide access to verifiable facts and deeper understanding of the topic.

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2 hours ago, Karl Perera said:

Very harsh guys. I, of course, accept your comments but actually best to just check my website and see if you can view it fairly. My intent is to help those trying to get into the hobby. I have two years' experience and go out on every occasion with my astro rig. I am actually a teacher so I feel the need to educate others and am trying to help others avoid my mistakes. All your points I take but I only tried to get your opinions though I am sure of my answers.

For a website, research may enhance what I have to say. There is plenty of experience in my writing. Go read some of my articles and then comment on what is there. I am a bit shocked at the way I have been judged here but fair enough, no offence taken.

I don't believe any of us means to be harsh but you are swimming in troubled waters, I think, given the current state of the internet. There is so much ill-informed or under-informed stuff out there that people with enough personal expertise to see through it are getting rather short-tempered about it.  And there is now this new breed of self-styled 'influencer' to add to the virtual detritus in which cyber space is drowning.

There are two schools of thought regarding beginners posting advice. Some take the positive view that they are inviting their viewers to 'learn with me.'  Others think that they should desist from posting advice till they know what they're doing.  I was a teacher, too, for 23 years and I lean towards the latter view without entirely dismissing the former.

Olly

 

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4 hours ago, Karl Perera said:

just check my website and see if you can view it fairly

That is an entirely reasonable request, and I have done so.  But the content on your site does rather demonstrate the problem that @ollypenrice describes. 

Under your most recent article titled "How to Clean Your Telescope Mirror Like a Pro", you say as follows:

"Based on what I have learned over the last few years, I will show you a quick and easy way to clean your telescope mirror without all the fuss that I see so many other YouTubers and content providers in the astronomy world encouraging."   

Thereafter, with your "last few years" of experience in the hobby, you appear to dismiss the entire, and extensive, body of information concerning the very delicate task of cleaning a telescope mirror, including it would appear the extensive information from telescope manufactures (the "Pros" you speak of in the title) that are presumably encompassed in your term "content providers".  To quote again from your article:

"Others usually advise something like this:

To clean a telescope mirror, first, make sure the mirror is cool and not exposed to sunlight or any other source of heat. Gently blow any loose dust off the mirror, then carefully moisten a soft, lint-free cloth with a mixture of warm water and a mild, alcohol-free detergent. Wipe the mirror in a circular motion, starting from the center and working your way outward. Avoid pressing too hard or using too much liquid, as this can damage the mirror. Once you have finished cleaning the mirror, use a clean, dry cloth to carefully remove any excess moisture. Allow the mirror to air dry before using the telescope again.

That’s way too complicated! I’ve got a much simpler method for you to try. It worked for me."

In a sentence, you dismiss all other learning on this topic and invite readers to follow your own method (immersing the mirror in slightly soapy water / spraying it with water and detergent, wiping it very carefully with a lint-free cloth, rinsing it t with distilled water and letting it dry in a vertical position). 

Thereafter, you go on to further dismiss with one categoric word, again on the basis of your "last few years of experience, the generally accepted learning that telescope mirrors may not need cleaning for years:

"I have looked at a number of videos and read many online articles that tell you your mirror may not need cleaning for years. One person I watched even stated that he hadn’t cleaned his telescope in ten years and that this is not a problem. Wrong!

Why do I say this is wrong? Based on my own experience. The best research anyone can do is to actually try different methods and learn by experience. "

The difficulty here is that you are offering categorical, inflexible advice on cleaning incredibly delicate optical surfaces in very expensive instruments based on no more than your unparticularised  experience of short duration.  Advice that many would argue is simply wrong, or at least dangerously generalised given the nature of the task in respect of which you are offering your categoric advice to people who will have spent a good deal of money on their gear.

I do not mean to single you out as I know this kind of thing is seen all over the Internet.  However, as @vlaiv says, rather than using SGL simply to harvest the knowledge of those on here in order to produce content for your site, try engaging in detailed discussions on these topics with members.  I strongly suspect it will benefit you, and your site, in the long term.  

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Karl I've had a look through your website and can appreciate what you are trying to accomplish, but like everyone else here I have some feedback that you can hopefully take on board.

Firstly "how to clean a mirror like a pro" as someone else mentioned it's a bit clickbaity, maybe think a little more on your headlines "How I clean my mirror" may be a little more appropriate, as you say yourself you've only done this a couple of times. I've cleaned my own optics numerous times, but I wouldn't describe myself as a pro. Also personally I'd mention that there are companies that specialise in this that you can send your telescope to for cleaning etc. maybe a disclaimer to say this is my method, no responsibility if you cause damage etc. I really wouldn't recommend using non-optical cleaning fluids either, yes it may work for you, but do you know how the ingredients will affect the coatings on other people's mirrors? There are tried and tested methods, such as the ones you'll see on this forum, or articles like this - https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/how-to-clean-a-reflector/ which should give you some good ideas.

Secondly, as a general thing, try and take a step back and rather than looking at astrophotography as the way you do it, look at it as a whole, there is a vast amount of different ways of doing it, from snapping a picture with your smartphone to the JWST.

If you really want to become a hub for advice take it back to basics, there's no harm in talking about your own journey, but make it clear there are many different ways to start and continue this journey. Arguably the one big omission I noticed is mounts, I didn't see anything much about them on your site, yet as I'm sure others will say the mount is more key to the experience than any other component.

Hopefully you find my feedback constructive, my intention is really not to put you off but to tweak your direction slightly so you can accomplish your goals. For some further inspiration, I'd recommend looking at Astrobiscuit, Astrobackyard and Astro La Vista on Youtube, going through their videos chronologically (and websites) you can see their journeys and developments over time

 

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Just took this off a snowboarding website, @vlaiv, it looks to be right up your street:👍😉

Asymmetrical Sidecut: A board that has a different-size sidecut on either side. In a shifted asymmetrical sidecut board, the center of the heelside radius is shifted back farther than the toeside radius to compensate for uneven weight distribution between the 2 edges.

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I am going to give this feedback close and careful thought. It seems that in my effort to set up this website and attract traffic to this very new website I have made some glaring errors! Thanks so much for pointing them out, they are helpful. The truth sometimes hurts but after all my motives are good I believe. Thanks for any feedback positive or negative and I hope to address this after Christmas. Off to Germany for a few days to celebrate the holiday...

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 22/12/2022 at 15:52, doublevodka said:

Karl I've had a look through your website and can appreciate what you are trying to accomplish, but like everyone else here I have some feedback that you can hopefully take on board.

Firstly "how to clean a mirror like a pro" as someone else mentioned it's a bit clickbaity, maybe think a little more on your headlines "How I clean my mirror" may be a little more appropriate, as you say yourself you've only done this a couple of times. I've cleaned my own optics numerous times, but I wouldn't describe myself as a pro. Also personally I'd mention that there are companies that specialise in this that you can send your telescope to for cleaning etc. maybe a disclaimer to say this is my method, no responsibility if you cause damage etc. I really wouldn't recommend using non-optical cleaning fluids either, yes it may work for you, but do you know how the ingredients will affect the coatings on other people's mirrors? There are tried and tested methods, such as the ones you'll see on this forum, or articles like this - https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/how-to-clean-a-reflector/ which should give you some good ideas.

Secondly, as a general thing, try and take a step back and rather than looking at astrophotography as the way you do it, look at it as a whole, there is a vast amount of different ways of doing it, from snapping a picture with your smartphone to the JWST.

If you really want to become a hub for advice take it back to basics, there's no harm in talking about your own journey, but make it clear there are many different ways to start and continue this journey. Arguably the one big omission I noticed is mounts, I didn't see anything much about them on your site, yet as I'm sure others will say the mount is more key to the experience than any other component.

Hopefully you find my feedback constructive, my intention is really not to put you off but to tweak your direction slightly so you can accomplish your goals. For some further inspiration, I'd recommend looking at Astrobiscuit, Astrobackyard and Astro La Vista on Youtube, going through their videos chronologically (and websites) you can see their journeys and developments over time

 

All very constructive advice and thank you for the help doublevodka.

I have taken note and done the following on the page about cleaning the mirror:

  • added a disclaimer about trying my method
  • rewritten the meta title removing the like a pro bit
  • tried to rewrite this so I don't claim my method is better, just an alternative
  • referenced sound authoritative advice on cleaning telescope mirrors

If you would like to check out the newly updated page and tell me what you think and if there is improvement, here's the link again:

https://astroimagery.com/equipment/telescopes/how-to-clean-your-telescope-mirror/ 

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Talking of advice on cleaning mirrors and lenses. 

The best advice is to not allow your optics to get dirty in the first place, a few simple procedures and precautions goes a long way to postponing the need to clean.

"Good telescope husbandry", I call it.

Keeping everything capped when not in use. (unless optics have fogged over after a session - dry out before capping)

When swapping eyepieces, put the caps back on the previous one. Same with filters, don't leave them lying around gathering dust, bulb blow and return to case.

Keeping equipment packed away, rather than "on display" when not in use. (Owners of Takahashi's will find this difficult).

Liberal use of a bulb blower before and after use of all optics.  Bulb blow eyepieces after every use, your eye/eyelashes contain GUNK!

Dew management/dew prevention. Dew shields work but on some nights and with some optical designs, more is needed. Get a dew-heater strip, they work miracles. After a session, allow your equipment to warm back up slowly and in a dry environment. If optics have "fogged over" keep the dew heaters ON till all moisture has evaporated and only cap when dry. If your scope has a front corrector plate - get a portable hair dryer.

Silica gel packets are an astronomers best friend, use them, lots of them and replace or replenish regularly.

Choosing a suitable observing site can have an effect on how dirty your optics may become. Pollen from plants and trees is sticky and it WILL stick to your optics. Try and be mindful of this when positioning your rig.

The only optics I've ever had to clean were the ones I've bought secondhand.

 

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On 31/12/2022 at 09:13, Karl Perera said:

All very constructive advice and thank you for the help doublevodka.

I have taken note and done the following on the page about cleaning the mirror:

  • added a disclaimer about trying my method
  • rewritten the meta title removing the like a pro bit
  • tried to rewrite this so I don't claim my method is better, just an alternative
  • referenced sound authoritative advice on cleaning telescope mirrors

If you would like to check out the newly updated page and tell me what you think and if there is improvement, here's the link again:

https://astroimagery.com/equipment/telescopes/how-to-clean-your-telescope-mirror/ 

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Some good improvements there Karl 👍 I would also agree with @Franklin that prevention is better that cure so that may be worth a mention near the top? Great to see you taking suggestions on board 👍

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