RASA 11 Disaster

[symmetal]

Took the scope out to put on the EQ8 for two clear nights imaging in a row, first for a long time. Lifted it onto the dovetail, tightened the middle screw until it was tight and while still holding the rear handle, moved around the other side to check it was in the dovetail groove on the other side before doing it up fully. Half way round it slipped and rolled off landing upside down on the concrete before rolling over on the grass. I found you can't hold back 22kg with one hand. 😖 In the freezing temperatures the dovetail bolt may have stuck while doing it up and the other side apparantly wasn't in the groove.

The guide scope took the full impact and the 5mm thick adapter plate fixing it to the top rail bent significantly. The RASA looked OK until I went round the front. 😭

There are no dents or even paint scuff marks on the RASA casing or dovetail rails. The cameras and PC assembly attached to the top of the scope are fine too. It just looks like the corrector plate couldn't take the momentum of the central lens and camera assembly when the guide scope scopped the scope moving forward. The main mirror and central lens assembly look fine too as far as I can tell. The guide scope itself looks good apart from the dented dewshield. Objective looks OK.

I won't be able to try for Göran's Blue Dragon now which was the target for 5 hours of moonless night tomorrow. 😟.

I thought I'd at least put the FLT98 on the EQ8 and get some imaging done but that has a Vixen dovetail while the EQ8 is Losmandy. I've put an order in to FLO for a Vixen/Losmandy adapter plate to use the FLT98 on the EQ8 until the RASA comes back from being fixed by Celestron, but that can't be here until Friday so the two nights are lost. I could put the FLT98 on the AZ-EQ6 on a tripod tomorrow if I get the urge but I'm rather flat at the moment.

Alan

[OK Apricot]

Goodness me, sorry this has happened mate! It looks in a sorry state ☹️. 

Hopefully it comes back as good as before and you're back imaging with the fast bucket in no time 🤞

[Stu]

Oh no, that’s really not good. At least it sounds like it can be repaired which is great, hopefully covered by insurance?

[Elp]

Probably every SCT owners worst nightmare. Hopefully they won't take too long to repair.

[scotty38]

Sorry to see that, hope it's sorted quickly!

[tomato]

Oh wow, that’s not good. I have missed engaging both sides of the dovetail on my RASA8 a couple of times but I don’t let go until I look up from the lower end and see both sides in the saddle. Unfortunately it doesn’t take much lateral force on the corrector plate to see it off. There have been a couple of threads on here about getting broken plates replaced by Celestron.

Last night my proper clear night was blighted by a filter wheel that refused to function despite being connected OK to NINA, but that’s way down on the frustration scale compared to your event. Given your previous trials and tribulations with the RASA, I hope you can get it repaired promptly.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Very sorry to hear this. I hope the repair doesn't take too long

[gorann]

What a nightmare. I can see that handling a 22 kg scope is very risky, especially if you have to get it up and down every night. Not sure why the RASA11 is so heavy - my Edge 11 ways much less, and the RASA8 is a baby in comparison.

The best of luck with getting it fixed and keep us updated on the progress.

[symmetal]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Much appreciated. 

I've contacted FLO and they are contacting Celestron UK and helping to arrange shipment and repair costs. Waiting for their response. Hopefully they can get and fit a new corrector plate and align it without it needing to be shipped back to China.

I have an ADM losmandy clamp fitted to the lower dovetail bar which hooks over the top of the saddle to help take the weight while getting it into position though it's still back heavy without the dew shield attached so upward force is needed on the rear handle all the time until it's locked in. I think the right side dovetail edge clamped on the edge of the saddle at one point as the locking bolt didn't travel as far as normal. I should have loosened it off and jiggled a bit more but bent down to have a look while still applying upward force on the rear handle. The dovetail right edge likely dropped into the correct position at that point and the rolling motion to the right it created was too much to stop with the one hand on the rear. It continued rolling to the right and I had to let go when it had tolled 90 degrees or I might have broken my wrist.

If I'd kept hold of it it would have likely swung down and landed camera first which would have broken the camera, corrector plate and possibly the front lens assembly.  As it is, the top dovetail bar spread the force of the guide camera hitting the ground and corrector plate end got the most of the shock. I did find some scuff marks on the rear black casting where it rolled on to its side before coming to rest though they don't look too deep so I don't think there is any mirror damage.

I could have left the scope on the mount in the shed all the time which in hindsight would have been better, but with November being very wet I would bring it in if the forecast looked bad for the next few days to save it sitting there in very high humidity all the time. I've lifted it on and off without incident around 20 times already so didn't think this would be any different. 😪

FLO were due to ship my Astronomik fast 6nm NB filters today, and they have kindly quickly added the ADM losmandy/vixen adapter to the shipment so I can at least put the FLT98 on the EQ8 while the RASA is away.

Alan

[900SL]

Sorry to see that. It's truly one of those 'oh dear' moments. Hope it comes back better than new

[symmetal]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

Oh no, that’s really not good. At least it sounds like it can be repaired which is great, hopefully covered by insurance?

Yes, it should be covered by insurance, whether it comes under items in outbuildings, as it technically wasn't at the time of the accident, or personal items I'll have to check. I'll see what Celestron quote for repair first, as it'll no doubt impact the next premium. 😬

Alan

[ollypenrice]

It's repairable. Make that the focus of your feelings.

Personally I would not regard mounting an instrument this size as a one man job. My wife is used to taking charge of the lock nuts on the saddle plate and to confirming that the dovetail is located within it. When we recently hefted a 14 inch SCT onto a GEM we had two lifters and one saddle plate clamp tightener. I had also fitted a custom handle to the front of the OTA to help the other lifter.

It's a known problem: George Willis RIitchey and his assistant lost control of the first large Ritchey-Chrétien primary he had been commissioned to build and the mirror was damaged. His assistant, alas, suffered severe hand injuries.

Anyway, you'll soon be back in business. Chin up.

Olly

[JeremyS]

Oh no, so sorry. There has been a spate of these incidents lately.

[symmetal]

Thanks @ollypenrice and @JeremyS I was a bit trepidatious when I first received it about lifting it on to the mount as there's only me here, but found a technique that seemed to work OK. The main issue is as you're lifting it from underneath to keep it upright all the time and not to let it tip to one side, as it quickly gets out of control. When the locking bolt seemed to tighten early I should have slackened it off and jiggled the scope around, instead of trying to see what was wrong.

I have fitted a handle to the top dovetail bar which is fine for carrying it around but is too high to use when putting it on the mount. I could try finding a position to place a  mirror so I can see the far dovetail groove while manoeuvering it into position.

Alan

Edited December 15, 2022 by symmetal

[Paul M]

Reading that wretched my stomach. I think that if it had happened to be I'd have gone and got a sledge hammer out of yge garage and finished the job off

let's hope it's back in one piece in short order.

Only 2 nights ago was mounting my new RC10 on my EQ6 in the cold and dark. All up it wighs maybe 20kg or more. I struggled and on my first few goes hadn't got the dovetail seated and had to retake the weight. If I'd gone round to look, like you, there is no way I'd have stopped it falling.

It's on its 3rd day of being set up continuously. I was already thinking about a better approach for next time. Your sorry take has convinced me to find a more robust method.

[Stu]

This always struck me as a potentially useful technique, could it be applied for the RASA in any way?

 

[gorann]

I can read from you description Alan that you must have gone through this sad event many times in your head.

Well, as an alternative to the video above, I made this arrangement in the obsy so I can lift my 40kg Meade safely without the help of my wife or a neighbour, I am a bit of a coward I know:

Edited December 15, 2022 by gorann

[symmetal]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

This always struck me as a potentially useful technique, could it be applied for the RASA in any way?

That's a good video Stu. The second part where he had the scope in the horizontal position on the chair would be more applicable for the RASA to avoid having to remove the camera each time. I just need to find or make a stool of the correct height. Got plenty of time to do that now until I get the scope back. 😉 I was thinking of getting some thick foam mats to put around the base to catch falling scopes but the method in the video is much better.

52 minutes ago, gorann said:

Well, as an alternative to the video above, I made this arrangement in the obsy where I keep my 40kg Meade for safe handling, I am a bit of a coward I know:

Thanks Göran. I was also thinking about how to arrange a pulley system to lift it which would mean having a temporary frame over the pillar which is a lot of hassle but your arrangement made me think I could put a couple of wooden uprights and cross beam in the roll-off plastic shed you can see to the right in the blurry last photo I posted, above where the scope sits when it's in the shed. A channeled cutout in the base ensures the scope always ends up in the same location. Then have a pulley system similar to yours attached to the cross beam. The rope can attach to the handle I fitted to the top dovetail bar.

That's two good methods. The stool system shown in Stu's video is quicker to make so I'll likely try that method first. 😀

@Paul M One of these two methods may be suitable for you too. 🙂

Alan

Edited December 16, 2022 by symmetal

[ollypenrice]

I like the video method as well but would not want to be removing the camera from the RASA, given how critical its fitment is at F2. You could make a dedicated stand, though, rather like a saw horse but taller. The scope would sit in the vee in the way a log does. You'd want to design it so that it stood on the paving blocks for consistency of height and some range of adjustability would probably be needed to get the dovetail into the saddle plate for the mounting phase. Might it stand on braked wheels for fine manoeuvres?

Indeed, I wonder if we might not have invented a telescope accessory for the industry to produce...

Olly

[900SL]

I'd  use a stand rather than a pulley. Less to go wrong. 

[symmetal]

8 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

I like the video method as well but would not want to be removing the camera from the RASA, given how critical its fitment is at F2. You could make a dedicated stand, though, rather like a saw horse but taller. The scope would sit in the vee in the way a log does. You'd want to design it so that it stood on the paving blocks for consistency of height and some range of adjustability would probably be needed to get the dovetail into the saddle plate for the mounting phase. Might it stand on braked wheels for fine manoeuvres?

Indeed, I wonder if we might not have invented a telescope accessory for the industry to produce...

Olly

Yes, the last part of the video where the scope lay on its side on the chair is the better orientation for a RASA to keep the camera attached. Your saw horse arrangement  sounds good. I thought of mounting it on a low level trolley like this

which would be handy for fine manoeuvering, and I have one in the garage. A raised frame could be fitted around the outside at the corners fixed to the bottom if necessary to stop the horse from sliding off and still allow the trolley handle to fold down when not in use. I can always lay another row of paving slabs if it would help. For use with one specific scope and mount, the height can be fixed so a height adjustment mechanism won't be needed.

As you say an opportunity for someone to make them for sale. 😀

Haven't heard anything back from Celestron via FLO at the moment so it may be the New Year before anything happens in getting it repaired. 😐

Alan

[Stu]

I guess the benefit of the vertical technique is that there is plenty of range  for positioning the dovetail into the saddle, whereas horizontally it needs to be a more exact height match.

Is there any way of supporting the scope either side of the camera, or does that still risk knocking it out of alignment? How about supporting from the rear?

[symmetal]

33 minutes ago, Stu said:

I guess the benefit of the vertical technique is that there is plenty of range  for positioning the dovetail into the saddle, whereas horizontally it needs to be a more exact height match.

Is there any way of supporting the scope either side of the camera, or does that still risk knocking it out of alignment? How about supporting from the rear?

My 3D printed dew shield would support the weight of the scope as the rear slots into the dovetail bars but the whole thing would be a bit top heavy. A shorter one just long enough to clear the camera and a bit beefier could be used. 🤔

The rear is a possibility if the support is shaped to avoid (or incorporate) the rear handle, and avoid the autofocus assembly sticking out in place of the focus knob.

Alan

 

[gorann]

Out of curiosity, are there insurances for accidents like this in the UK? I have no idea if I could insure it in Sweden.

[Peter Drew]

I used the video system to attach a 12" LX200 OTA to an EQ6 Pro and it worked very well for a one man operation.  I would have thought that a structure that had a platform to place the OTA on vertically but with a hole in it to avoid the camera unit, would be reasonably straightforward to make.

Better luck with whatever comes next.    🙂