Upgrading eyepieces - advice on 100 degree eyepiece?

[James9]

AFOV for the above eyepieces for:

Travel Scope 70

SLT 130

Nexstar 8SE (example of my current planned future scope)

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, James9 said:

I gather the Nirvana's are just rebranded cheaper versions of the Explore Scientific's? When I said I was tempted by 82 degrees before, it was the Explore Scientific's I was looking at. I discounted the Explore Scientific's on cost so curious about the Nirvana's now. 

No, the Nirvanas are entirely different eyepieces made, IIRC, by KUO.  All ES (and Bresser) eyepieces are made by JOC.  Both are quality options.  JOC used to sell their eyepieces under various Celestron and Meade brandings prior to 2013.  Right now, the only bonafide rebranding of the ES-82s outside of China that I know of is the Opticstar line.  There is some controversy surrounding these that they might be second quality, but that has never been conclusively proven one way or the other.

[rl]

If you do like the really wide viewing experience (some don't) and don't need glasses then your original suggestion of the APM 13mm is an excellent choice. I've tried or owned most of the 100 degree offerings and in my experience it's the closest to the Ethos in terms of performance. 

[Don Pensack]

On 03/12/2022 at 18:53, Mike Q said:

In the same boat here, but the eye doctor says i am at risk for glacoma, so i get checked yearly for it.  No worries yet he says. 

It's 'glaucoma' if you want to look it up.  Lots of causes.

Extreme myopes are also at risk for retinal tears and separations as well as they get older.

 

[Don Pensack]

On 01/12/2022 at 08:02, James9 said:

Hello All, 

I am an intermittent observer, depending on my work and general life stresses. Upgrading kit comes close to being a stress so I would like some help ! A new job on the horizon will also give me a more time for hobbies.

I have a Nexstar 130 SLT (f/5), a steal from a pawnbrokers for £200. When I opened the box, it contained the SkyQ Link wifi module ! Albeit I think the version 1, it is grey and not orange around the clip.

My 'best' eyepieces are Celestron AstroMaster Telescope Accessory Kit:

• 15 mm Kellner Eyepiece - 1.25” - Decent enough for me to use.
• 6 mm Plossl Eyepiece - 1.25” - I find very difficult and uncomfortable to use. Like looking through a straw.
• 2X Barlow Lens with T-threads - 1.25”

(As also have Celestron 25 and 9mm eyepieces and an unbranded "Super 10mm" eyepiece (Skywatcher? I still have a Celestron Travel 70 scope, one of my previous rungs on the ladder)).

 

In the next 2-5 years, with sufficient growing experience and enjoyment permitting, I would like to upgrade to whatever the Celestron Nexstar 8 (f/10) variant (or last generation, second hand) is around then. I would like to keep the same, better eyepieces I will hopefully begin investing in now. 

I also have a Canon 5D camera, used mainly for travel and some night landscape Astro but would like to leave the door open to taking a variety of astro pictures through the scope.

 

I am looking at buying 1-2 eyepieces for £200-550 total and I have been drawn to wide (and even wider) angle eyepieces.

Initially, I looked at the Panorama II that seems to have got good reviews in 2018 but with some niggles.  

I read the Hyperions are good but poor at f/5 so wouldn't do me any good for the next few years.

I am currently considering my best bet is the the APM 13 XWA and either the APM 20 XWA or the APM 5 XWA. Tempted by the 5mm so I can get high magnification on my f/5 with the 2x barlow and then use it on it's own on the f/10. But maybe the 7 or 9 mm would be better?

I don't wear glasses but the 6mm has made me gun shy and would like a comfortable viewing experience for the what I buy. Interested in everything, would like to see larger images of the planets and better views of DSOs than my current set up. 

 

I have tried to do my research but I'm still an improving/advanced beginner and my head is genuinely aching after 2-3hours so I will have to have some water and a lie down! Any feedback or oversights I am making would be appreciated. I am hoping these purchases would be for life so would like your help to get them right. 

Thank you for reading!

The 5mm APM XWA is actually 4.7-4.8mm in focal length.

Optically, the 4.8mm and 7mm are superb eyepieces, all the way down past f/4.  Very well done.

The 20mm isn't as good at f/4 but does OK above f/5 (much less lateral field astigmatism)  By f/6, it's a fine eyepiece.  

If you prefer an eyepiece with longer eye relief, the 4.5mm Morpheus is really sharp, as is the 6.5mm, down to f/4 and perhaps beyond.

[James9]

Thanks for the continue input. 

Trying to weigh up cost, where I am now, where I might be in the future and so on... no one has screamed I am making a terrible mistake (yet) so I plan to plump for:

1. 32mm Celestron Omni Plossl
2. 9mm Baader Morpheus
3. 5mm Starguider

Thank you all, I have learned quite a lot from your considered inputs. Feel free to still scream I'm making a terrible mistake if need be!

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, James9 said:

Thanks for the continue input. 

Trying to weigh up cost, where I am now, where I might be in the future and so on... no one has screamed I am making a terrible mistake (yet) so I plan to plump for:

1. 32mm Celestron Omni Plossl
2. 9mm Baader Morpheus
3. 5mm Starguider

Thank you all, I have learned quite a lot from your considered inputs. Feel free to still scream I'm making a terrible mistake if need be!

I have the 9mm Morpheus, and it views just about as crisply and contrastily (is that a word?) as my 10mm Delos, just a bit wider in AFOV.  Definitely a no compromise choice there.

[Elp]

My experience with high power eyepieces is that they're pointless as you rarely have the seeing to support them, and that's if your scope(s) support such magnifications. Even my ES 6.7mm doesn't get much use due to this.

[cajen2]

As usual, budgets limit ambitions but if you're prepared to pay a little more, there are 30ish mm EPs out there with a much wider FOV than the Omni Plossl, which is only 50°. My Xmas present is also a Celestron: an Ultima Edge 30 mil. This is the same EP as the well-regarded APM UFF and has a 70° FOV.

[James9]

Ok, I have a confession to make.

At the weekend, I found the new SVBony 3-8 zoom on the manufacturers website with ~£20 off, able to deliver just in time so I can collect it when I am in the UK over Christmas. So I bought it 😊 Seemed decent reviews so far... thought fast scopes have a question mark?... and not 10s of road tested reviews yet... but that is what I have done. Hopefully it works out 😬 😅

So I will drop the 5mm, use the svbony to explore that focal length region, and join the 9mm/32mm club.

1. 32mm Celestron Omni Plossl 50º fov
2. 9mm Baader Morpheus 76° fov

I might be tempted back for an even wider fov in a year or two if the Morpheus works out. 

[Elp]

Consider the vixen npl 30mm. Cheap and decent, I can use it with glasses too so it's generally comfortable to use all around. I use it more than my 32mm TV.

[James9]

The prices of the 32mm celestron and 30mm vixen are close enough (£65 and £58)  I could take either. Is either objectively better in use/quality?

I think the Ultima edge is a little out of my price range for now.

I had been meaning ask, is there a way of calculating what ep would be better on a fast scope or does it only come from looking through it? 

Edited December 6, 2022 by James9

[Elp]

I'd be biased toward the Vixen. The only Celestron I'm aware of which are decent are the Xcel LX, Ultima Edge and perhaps the Luminos. Out of them the only one I've got is the 12mm LX and it's an excellent eyepiece, even for hydrogen alpha solar viewing (through a solar scope) which most plossls I've used fail on. A 25mm BST starguider will also be decent.

If you're patient Xcel lxs are often on sale used as people upgrade.

Or if you want to address it now, get two Morpheus's and a Barlow. I try not to spend too much on eyepieces due to my environmental conditions I image more as I can't see much around here, as a result I've tried all sorts of brands and never really settle on one, as with anything in this hobby you'll never be content and will always be looking for the next thing.

I don't think there's any sort of calculator for suitability as every person's eye is different so every experience will be different. The issue with faster f ratios is the abberations are more prominent toward the edges. I've never had an issue with it, even through an acromat or a Newtonian without coma corrector as what you'll be looking at will most likely be dead centre so what's at the edges is a non issue.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Elp

[Louis D]

TBH, I'd just get the Astro Essentials 32mm Plossl for £29 and put the savings toward another eyepiece.  I never use a 32mm Plossl for critical viewing.  That, and the Celestron Omni line is nothing special to justify the upcharge for the brand name.  The Vixen might be an improvement over either the AE or Celestron, but not enough to justify the price jump (double).  Perhaps at a more frequently used focal length, but not at 32mm.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, James9 said:

I had been meaning ask, is there a way of calculating what ep would be better on a fast scope or does it only come from looking through it?

Generally, the more complex and expensive eyepieces do perform better in faster scopes, but not always.  The Baader Hyperion Aspherics come to mind as a counter example.  Despite their price, there are better options at their prices for fast scopes.

Your best bet is to ask on here or CN first before plunking down big bucks on an eyepiece.

[James9]

Thanks again. Going back up thread a little I think I'm missing a trick. Looking at:

32mm celestron at £65 for 50deg fov

30mm Vixen npl at £58 for 50 deg fov

25mm BST starguider for £55 for 60deg fov

The cheapest of the three, widest fov and best regarded is the starguider. Acknowledging it might not be as good as the plossl at the edges on an f5. But it is otherwise a better eyepiece.

Fov of the vixen and BST starguider is the same, the celestron and the astro essentials (£29 52Deg fov) are bigger but the same.

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/?fov[]=104|2245|||1||&fov[]=104|64|||1||&fov[]=104|2245|||1||&fov[]=104|389|||1||&messier=42

So it is a shootout between the 25mm BST starguider and 32mm astro essential? 

 

I lean toward the BST for the better regard and 60deg. I would like an eyepiece I can linger at if the feeling takes me. And feel like I would have an ep to keep rather than just a stand in for now. My only concern would be how bad it would be at the edges for my eyes.

Am I making sense or am I just easily influenced?! 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by James9

[Louis D]

Have a look at the post below in my thread showing through the eyepiece images I've taken through my eyepieces using a field flattened 72ED refractor (f/6).  The 25mm BST is already getting fuzzy while the 32mm Plossls are still sharp to the edge.  The 24mm APM UFF is better, but still not perfect, for a lot more money.  It's up to you if you can live with the inner 75% being pretty sharp with the outer 25% getting progressively fuzzier with the 25mm BST.  In a faster than f/6 scope, the outer field that is fuzzy will grow toward the center and be even fuzzier in the outer 25%.  At f/10, it will be fine, though.

 

[James9]

I see what you mean. I will buy for now and go with the Plossl. 

Thank you!

[Louis D]

32mm Plossls are always handy to toss into a travel kit even after you've upgraded eyepieces.  I took one to Nebraska in 2017 for the total solar eclipse along with an 8-24mm zoom and ST80 scope.  It was perfect for low power views to center the solar disk and to observe the extent of the corona.  I wasn't worried about any of my kit being stolen while stored in my unattended vehicle due to the low total cost and easy replacement, and yet it was more than sufficient to enjoy viewing the eclipse.

[LDW1]

On 01/12/2022 at 11:02, James9 said:

Hello All, 

I am an intermittent observer, depending on my work and general life stresses. Upgrading kit comes close to being a stress so I would like some help ! A new job on the horizon will also give me a more time for hobbies.

I have a Nexstar 130 SLT (f/5), a steal from a pawnbrokers for £200. When I opened the box, it contained the SkyQ Link wifi module ! Albeit I think the version 1, it is grey and not orange around the clip.

My 'best' eyepieces are Celestron AstroMaster Telescope Accessory Kit:

• 15 mm Kellner Eyepiece - 1.25” - Decent enough for me to use.
• 6 mm Plossl Eyepiece - 1.25” - I find very difficult and uncomfortable to use. Like looking through a straw.
• 2X Barlow Lens with T-threads - 1.25”

(As also have Celestron 25 and 9mm eyepieces and an unbranded "Super 10mm" eyepiece (Skywatcher? I still have a Celestron Travel 70 scope, one of my previous rungs on the ladder)).

 

In the next 2-5 years, with sufficient growing experience and enjoyment permitting, I would like to upgrade to whatever the Celestron Nexstar 8 (f/10) variant (or last generation, second hand) is around then. I would like to keep the same, better eyepieces I will hopefully begin investing in now. 

I also have a Canon 5D camera, used mainly for travel and some night landscape Astro but would like to leave the door open to taking a variety of astro pictures through the scope.

 

I am looking at buying 1-2 eyepieces for £200-550 total and I have been drawn to wide (and even wider) angle eyepieces.

Initially, I looked at the Panorama II that seems to have got good reviews in 2018 but with some niggles.  

I read the Hyperions are good but poor at f/5 so wouldn't do me any good for the next few years.

I am currently considering my best bet is the the APM 13 XWA and either the APM 20 XWA or the APM 5 XWA. Tempted by the 5mm so I can get high magnification on my f/5 with the 2x barlow and then use it on it's own on the f/10. But maybe the 7 or 9 mm would be better?

I don't wear glasses but the 6mm has made me gun shy and would like a comfortable viewing experience for the what I buy. Interested in everything, would like to see larger images of the planets and better views of DSOs than my current set up. 

 

I have tried to do my research but I'm still an improving/advanced beginner and my head is genuinely aching after 2-3hours so I will have to have some water and a lie down! Any feedback or oversights I am making would be appreciated. I am hoping these purchases would be for life so would like your help to get them right. 

Thank you for reading!

My refractors are f5.4, f5.5, f8.4 and f11.4 and my additional former scopes were f6.25 and f6.6, my 6 Hyperions performed great in all of them but I quickly changed to 4 Morpheus and kept a couple of the lower powered Hyps. The Morphs are just that much higher in performance and TFOV. I owned a couple of 82° and a 100° eps but they were just too wide for my liking. I also am playing with a couple of Celestron Ultima Edge eps ( 31-15mm ) and they are a couple of great performers as well and my Pan 24 is a keeper. So unless you are a picky perfectionist I think you will be satisfied with the Hyperions vs their cost. Don't let the so called experts dazzle you with high priced numbers that your eyeballs will never detect or care about because you can't control the quality of the nite skies, the seeing on those clear nights.  Good Luck !

Edited December 11, 2022 by LDW1

[LDW1]

On 01/12/2022 at 11:02, James9 said:

Hello All, 

I am an intermittent observer, depending on my work and general life stresses. Upgrading kit comes close to being a stress so I would like some help ! A new job on the horizon will also give me a more time for hobbies.

I have a Nexstar 130 SLT (f/5), a steal from a pawnbrokers for £200. When I opened the box, it contained the SkyQ Link wifi module ! Albeit I think the version 1, it is grey and not orange around the clip.

My 'best' eyepieces are Celestron AstroMaster Telescope Accessory Kit:

• 15 mm Kellner Eyepiece - 1.25” - Decent enough for me to use.
• 6 mm Plossl Eyepiece - 1.25” - I find very difficult and uncomfortable to use. Like looking through a straw.
• 2X Barlow Lens with T-threads - 1.25”

(As also have Celestron 25 and 9mm eyepieces and an unbranded "Super 10mm" eyepiece (Skywatcher? I still have a Celestron Travel 70 scope, one of my previous rungs on the ladder)).

 

In the next 2-5 years, with sufficient growing experience and enjoyment permitting, I would like to upgrade to whatever the Celestron Nexstar 8 (f/10) variant (or last generation, second hand) is around then. I would like to keep the same, better eyepieces I will hopefully begin investing in now. 

I also have a Canon 5D camera, used mainly for travel and some night landscape Astro but would like to leave the door open to taking a variety of astro pictures through the scope.

 

I am looking at buying 1-2 eyepieces for £200-550 total and I have been drawn to wide (and even wider) angle eyepieces.

Initially, I looked at the Panorama II that seems to have got good reviews in 2018 but with some niggles.  

I read the Hyperions are good but poor at f/5 so wouldn't do me any good for the next few years.

I am currently considering my best bet is the the APM 13 XWA and either the APM 20 XWA or the APM 5 XWA. Tempted by the 5mm so I can get high magnification on my f/5 with the 2x barlow and then use it on it's own on the f/10. But maybe the 7 or 9 mm would be better?

I don't wear glasses but the 6mm has made me gun shy and would like a comfortable viewing experience for the what I buy. Interested in everything, would like to see larger images of the planets and better views of DSOs than my current set up. 

 

I have tried to do my research but I'm still an improving/advanced beginner and my head is genuinely aching after 2-3hours so I will have to have some water and a lie down! Any feedback or oversights I am making would be appreciated. I am hoping these purchases would be for life so would like your help to get them right. 

Thank you for reading!

Something else you may want to try for a change of pace is the 7.2 - 21.6 Svbony zoom or similar for a pretty decent price and the FOV is a bit wider than most. I have 3 Svbony zooms and the Baader Hyperion Mark IV, I use them a lot in my ha and WL solar viewing, the Svbonys are every bit as good as the Baader for a lot less $'s, for just occasional use.

[TheLookingGlass]

Check out this review on the APM XWA eyepieces.

https://astromart.com/reviews/eyepieces/show/apm-xwa-100-degree-eyepieces

[Don Pensack]

14 hours ago, TheLookingGlass said:

Check out this review on the APM XWA eyepieces.

https://astromart.com/reviews/eyepieces/show/apm-xwa-100-degree-eyepieces

A little lacking in details, and the 4.8mm and 3.5mm were not reviewed, but, overall a fair comparison.

I was shocked he could use the 20mm with glasses.  He must have shallow eye sockets and glasses lens very close to the eye.

In doing a lot of comparisons, I find the XWAs differ across the line in both correction and contrast.  The 7mm and 4.8mm are both excellent in that regard--the best in the series in a coma-corrected dob.

They're all worth trying at the very low price they currently sell for.