upgrading cam and other bits on my Skymax 127?

[thekwango]

hi all - now that i'm finally getting to use my scope i'm thinking about 'upgrading' some parts of it. i've been having great fun looking at the moon, jupiter, mars etc and taking some images, badly ..................(see below lol) 

 

current setup;

Skymax 127 - probably 6 years old (bought used 3 years ago)

Bresser Mikrocular - cheapo cam which has given me no end of fun (and stress!)

standard eye pieces that came with the scope

so while i've been having fun, i know the bresser cam isn't the best but was a cheap way to dip my feet in the water to see if i wanted to image the planets and now my toes are damp i'd really like to get them soaking wet  😂

 

my thoughts.......

i'm thinking the 1st 'upgrade' is to replace the Bresser with something from the ZWO range - i'm thinking the 120mc? 

32mm plossl - for no reason other than i see them recommended in a lot of other threads 

replace the existing finder scope - i find it to be a huge pain to get it properly set up (to much bending and squinting) - no set idea what to replace it with though so advice most welcome, maybe a RACI of some flavour?

as funds allow i was thinking to 'modernise' the mount by getting the Sky-Watcher AZ GTi WiFi Alt-Az Astronomy Mount - i know it's not a proper dso scope but might try my hand at it so thinking a better mount/goto thingy might help. though i believe i'd also need to order a wedge(?) and flash the handset software?

am i nuts, am i barking up the wrong tree, am i wasting my thoughts and money - i've thick skin so happy to be laughed at and mocked if the above is a recipe for disaster 😆

and lastly, my most recent effort using the bresser - i like it, most probably don't lol

 

[Elp]

The azgti is great, I use it the most and have got great AP results. You have to watch what you mount onto it though. You'd need to autoguide to get the best results.

[thekwango]

15 minutes ago, Elp said:

The azgti is great, I use it the most and have got great AP results. You have to watch what you mount onto it though. You'd need to autoguide to get the best results.

most that will be mounted on it will be the scope, cam and new finder scope which i think should still be within the 5kg capacity of the mount? 

forgive me but what do you mean by 'you'd need to autoguide to get the best results' - i thought the azgti was a goto, therefore autoguides itself (again, forgive me as i'm still learning, especially the terminology used!)

[Elp]

If you're going to do DSO AP I don't think the skymax is the way to go due to the long focal length, your tracking will have to be better as a result. The in built tracking is functional but if you want to do proper DSO imaging (60s+ per image) it's not the best, for autoguiding you'd need to convert it to EQ mode via a firmware update (you can still use it in alt az), put it onto an EQ wedge, get a guidescope and a guide camera and an EQ DIR cable and some form of computer controller (pc/asiair/RPI/mini pc). Autoguiding looks at the starfield it's pointed at and makes minute alterations to the ra and Dec movement of the mount. Standard tracking moves continually at the rate it's set at or where it thinks it should be pointing based on its initial alignment and in built map so you get some form of drift of the target over time. If you're going to concentrate on solar system objects you can use it as is without autoguiding with your current scope.

I do use 6kg on mine, but knowingly I'm possibly shortening the life of the product. When I tried my C6 on it, it's within the same 6kg payload as my short FL refractor but I could tell it was struggling with it and the autoguiding showed it too. It's a good mount as long as the payload doesn't stretch too far or heavy from the centre of rotation.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Elp

[thekwango]

55 minutes ago, Elp said:

If you're going to do DSO AP I don't think the skymax is the way to go due to the long focal length

Ah yea, I know she ain’t the best for dso. But to be honest that’s something way, way down list of priorities - probably shouldn’t even have mentioned it in my op to be fair.
For now I just want to improve on my scopes planetary and lunar imaging capabilities and maybe when I’m a bit more knowledgeable about the actual sky I’d like to dabble (I like that word!) with some of the more attainable dso’s but as I say that’s not a priority for now. More a ‘be nice to try’ at some point really, if that makes sense. 

[Elp]

Azgti should suit then. Check out the owners thread to see what people are doing with it.

If you can get one the newer SA GTI should also do, but I think it's a little overpriced considering its essentially the same thing as speccing up an EQ mode azgti, they should have given it more capacity to justify the price hike.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Elp

[happy-kat]

What sort of budget for the camera are you thinking of?

[thekwango]

Not sure, I’ve been looking at YouTube videos of the 127 paired with the zwo asi120mc which I’d like to aim for so guess the 150-200 quid it goes for?

To be honest zwo are about the only brand I’ve looked at so happy to be pointed in other directions. 

[Elp]

If you want it to be more future proof a 485 will be better (or the newer 585 but it will be more expensive, only benefit I can see is it's non amp glow, but with the 485 it calibrates out anyway with suitable dark frames), I use it for DSO imaging too. Below that a 224. The sensor is quite small on the 120s (and the 224) so will generally be suited to planetary.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Elp

[happy-kat]

That's a great first image. Before jumping in with the 120mc it would be worth comparing specifications as that 120 might not be much of a jump from what you have already.

[thekwango]

17 hours ago, Elp said:

a 485 will be better

while it would without doubt be better, it's also more that double the price of 224 and thrice the price of the 120 which currently puts it outside my budget sadly. 

 

16 hours ago, happy-kat said:

That's a great first image. Before jumping in with the 120mc it would be worth comparing specifications as that 120 might not be much of a jump from what you have already.

cheers, while not technically my first image - it's the first one i've not dumped in the bin!! i'm actually struggling to make sense of the specs for the bresser, 120 and 224 in order to compare them. much googling and head scratching hasn't overcome my own stupidity yet 😆

when comparing initially, i had been going off the very scientific rule of thumb that with the 120 or 224 being at least 3 times the price, they'd surely be at least twice as good - makes sense in some dimension, surely 😂

[happy-kat]

hat is the model of your bresser?

[thekwango]

50 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

hat is the model of your bresser?

think this is the one here i have. 

https://www.bresseruk.com/Microscopes/BRESSER-MikrOkular-Full-HD-eyepiece-camera.html

[happy-kat]

Looking at the sensor size, pixel size and image dimension size it's not bad

From what I've found on searching the IR filter can be removed increasing IR response for using a IR planet filter but you would need a UV/IR filter for colour use. (check/look into this at your own risk)

Can you use the breaser in sharpcap and can you do a ROI and can you record video in raw or ser mode with your bresser?

 

Edit: typo wrote the wrong abbreviation

Edited November 23, 2022 by happy-kat

[Elp]

The specs of your bresser seem okay regarding pixel size and sensor size, you won't gain much going with anything less than a 300 series based camera. Bresser however do not state the quantum efficiency response of the sensor which makes the difference on what the sensor picks up, the FPS may also be limiting for planetary work which benefits from usb3 transfer bandwidth and fast computer memory storage, you have to just take more images within the limits of a planets rotation speed, lowering the capture resolution may also speed FPS acquisition up, this of course doesn't matter if doing long exposure DSO. Having an AR window, your sensor is already having the benefit of being exposed to infra red light for sensitivity purposes, for imaging other than IR specific, you'll need an IR cut filter so your colours do not shift.

[thekwango]

57 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Looking at the sensor size, pixel size and image dimension size it's not bad

From what I've found on searching the AR window can be removed increasing IR response for using a IR planet filler

Can you use the breaser in sharpcap and can you do a ROI and can you record video in raw or ser mode with your bresser?

 

i can use it in sharpcap and record output in avi or ser but i don't get the option to select ROI - i've had a google previously but was never able to make that option appear. i should also maybe mention the camera will only give me ~10-15pfs when recording, frame rates literally get cut in half when it's put onto the scope (maybe that's normal?)

 

[Elp]

Usb2 is slow for data transfer so will be a limiting factor. Most of the cameras I use run at that framerate until you reduce the resolution to something smaller for imaging planets. You could also try Firecapture, don't know if it natively supports that camera.

[thekwango]

yea i've tried reducing the resolution to 1280x720 but still don't get the option to select ROI. have tried FC but it doesn't 'see' the camera sadly. 

[happy-kat]

re  you using any driver for it like ascom?

[thekwango]

9 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

re  you using any driver for it like ascom?

I haven’t actually looked into drivers if I’m honest. Just figured if it didn’t work with a specific piece of software it was a limitation of the camera rather than the software. 

[Girders]

Just came across the thread.  I've got the Skymax 127 and the ZWO120MC.  This is the best photo I managed last year (when it was low in the sky so conditions were poor).  Had the camera out for half a dozen or so nights by this point.  Not managed anything this year for various reasons.  I'm a mac user so thank this was using ZWO Studio for capture and Siril for stacking.  No barlow used - hard enough to locate the target without adding a barlow.  Mount was a Heritage Virtuoso used for tracking but not goto.  Never had any success for any DSO with the scope/camera combination.  

Edited November 26, 2022 by Girders