At A Crossroads...

[Ian McCallum]

I'm at a point where I no longer want to go further into the rabbit hole that is astrophotography, due to costs of getting more equipment.  Whilst I can do AP on a budget, I find that the time required to set up the mount, polar align, connect all the gear and run the software (allowing for computer problems) is killing the hobby for me.  I'm tempted to go back to just purely visual observing.

I could have just stuck with my SW 200P Dob and still been happy, but with more money in my pocket.  I felt drawn to refractors, so got a 2nd hand SW Evostar 120.  That required a better mount and tripod than I had at the time, so I bought an SW EQ5 Deluxe mount.  I wanted to motorise the mount, so I got a SW Enhanced Dual-Axis motor drive kit.  This allowed my to do some rudimentary AP, using the ST4 port on the hand controller.  I then bought a ZWO ASI120MM mini guide camera, but I found that I didn't like ST4 guiding.  I then decided that the EQ5 Synscan Pro Goto upgrade kit was the way to go.  That certainly made improvements, as did getting a small RPi to do standalone stuff, very clever stuff!

I thought that a one shot colour camera would be even better, so I got the ZWO ASI224MC one.  It's gave me some good images, over the time I've had it.  I recently bought another refractor - a SW ST120 OTA, for wider views of DSO than can be obtained through my SW Evostar 120.  The idea was to do DSO imaging with the ST120, along with a Baader Contrast Booster filter attached to the from of the ASI224MC.

A mixture of poor weather, technical limitations of the budget equipment and my own limitations, have caused my to pause for the moment and reconsider... 

I'm thinking of selling the cameras and going to back to purely visual, but getting an AZ5 mount for the existing tripod (with adapter).

Edited November 8, 2022 by Ian McCallum
typo

[allworlds]

I'm not sure visual is much less of a money pit. Personally I don't like observing with glasses but I don't like my eye astigmatism spoiling the stars either. I could get Dioptrx, but a set of even Delites is going to get spendy, never mind ultrawide Tele Vue EPs.

Edited November 8, 2022 by allworlds

[900SL]

I can totally understand. Having recently moved back to Finland I seriously question why anybody spends big money on this hobby 😂

Ive been back over a week and I've not even seen the sun yet, nevermind stars!  I can see the attractions in visual. Simpler, cheaper, ready for action, waay less commitment in equipment, time and effort

[DaveS]

What's your ground situation like? is there any chance of a permanent set up? Even putting the rig on a pier under a Telegizmos cover can slash the set-up time drastically, and eliminate the repeated polar alignment faff.

Although an obsy is ideal, you don't have to go that far.

[Ian McCallum]

22 minutes ago, allworlds said:

I'm not sure visual is much less of a money pit. Personally I don't like observing with glasses but I don't like my eye astigmatism spoiling the stars either. I could get Dioptrx, but a set of even Delites is going to get spendy, never mind ultrawide Tele Vue EPs.

Regarding eyepieces, I've got the full BST StarGuider series which should cover all eventualities...

[Cosmic Geoff]

As you can see from my signature, I have some equipment similar to yours.  I would suggest that you get a tri-pier (a semi-portable pier with three feet) and park it in a suitable part of your garden, put the EQ-5 Synscan mount head on it, polar align it, and leave it permanently in position.  Sky-Watcher Pillar Mount | First Light Optics

You will need a waterproof cover.

Then after a session you can 'park' the mount, power off, remove the scope and cover the mount.  At next session, attach the scope, power up, un-park, and you are ready to go - no polar aligning or GoTo aligning needed.

I use the mount mainly for EEVA (q.v.) style imaging, and plate-solve to confirm the targets.

[Ian McCallum]

22 minutes ago, DaveS said:

What's your ground situation like? is there any chance of a permanent set up? Even putting the rig on a pier under a Telegizmos cover can slash the set-up time drastically, and eliminate the repeated polar alignment faff.

Although an obsy is ideal, you don't have to go that far.

I share a small communal back garden with 3 other neighbours, as I live in a ground floor flat (4-in-a-block).  At most, I can only see about 90 degrees of the sky, from East to South.

[DaveS]

OK, so a permanent installation isn't possible. The only other simplification I can think of is to keep it very simple and portable so that the entire rig can be carried out in one go and polar aligned. 

Any chance of marking the tripod locations? What are the neighbours like?

[Ian McCallum]

3 minutes ago, DaveS said:

OK, so a permanent installation isn't possible. The only other simplification I can think of is to keep it very simple and portable so that the entire rig can be carried out in one go and polar aligned. 

Any chance of marking the tripod locations? What are the neighbours like?

I've done that in the past, but want to make the markings a bit more permanent.  I tend to use the tripod on grass, rather than concrete, as the grass is a bit further away from the buildings, so therefore gives me a little more sky to work with, etc.  Most neighbours are okay and know that I do astronomy.  In the past, I've even shown them the moon through my 8" Dob.

[DaveS]

Sinking three upside down flower pots in the grass with the drainage hole used to locate the tripod legs is something I've seen people do. Sink them low enough and mowing the grass then isn't impacted. You could sink them the right way up, then fill with concrete with dimples to mark the points.

It may be worth downsizing to keep it simple, either a Skywatcher SA or SA-GTi and a short Apo 'frac depending on what you can carry.

[Ian McCallum]

28 minutes ago, DaveS said:

Sinking three upside down flower pots in the grass with the drainage hole used to locate the tripod legs is something I've seen people do. Sink them low enough and mowing the grass then isn't impacted. You could sink them the right way up, then fill with concrete with dimples to mark the points.

It may be worth downsizing to keep it simple, either a Skywatcher SA or SA-GTi and a short Apo 'frac depending on what you can carry.

The flowerpots sounds like a sound idea, I'd probably go for the terracotta type.  My initial plan was to sell the two ZWO cameras and buy a SW AZ5 head with an adapter to fit my existing tripod legs. That way, I can still have my goto mount ability, but also the ease of Alt-Az. I'm not intending to part with my telescopes, as I like them all!

[DaveS]

Ah OK, I was going to suggest selling everything apart from the dob and eyepieces, then purchase:

SA-GTi

A small, fast astrograph apo, from Askar or Sharpstar, keep it light and manageable. FLO have several options depending on size and mass. You could add a reducer for a wider field.

A ZWO ASI 533, either mono or OSC depending on whether you want to risk the added complexity. I suspect that one of the IMX531 cameras might blow the budget.

You may or may not want to add a small (30-50mm) guide scope and camera. 

[Ian McCallum]

4 minutes ago, DaveS said:

Ah OK, I was going to suggest selling everything apart from the dob and eyepieces, then purchase:

SA-GTi

A small, fast astrograph apo, from Askar or Sharpstar, keep it light and manageable. FLO have several options depending on size and mass. You could add a reducer for a wider field.

A ZWO ASI 533, either mono or OSC depending on whether you want to risk the added complexity. I suspect that one of the IMX531 cameras might blow the budget.

You may or may not want to add a small (30-50mm) guide scope and camera. 

I've already got a converted SW 9x50 finderscope, that works really well with the ZWO ASI120MM mini.  I'd go back to purely observing, so no more AP, other than perhaps the smartphone upto an eyepiece.

[Stu1smartcookie]

2 hours ago, Ian McCallum said:

I'm at a point where I no longer want to go further into the rabbit hole that is astrophotography, due to costs of getting more equipment.  Whilst I can do AP on a budget, I find that the time required to set up the mount, polar align, connect all the gear and run the software (allowing for computer problems) is killing the hobby for me.  I'm tempted to go back to just purely visual observing.

I could have just stuck with my SW 200P Dob and still been happy, but with more money in my pocket.  I felt drawn to refractors, so got a 2nd hand SW Evostar 120.  That required a better mount and tripod than I had at the time, so I bought an SW EQ5 Deluxe mount.  I wanted to motorise the mount, so I got a SW Enhanced Dual-Axis motor drive kit.  This allowed my to do some rudimentary AP, using the ST4 port on the hand controller.  I then bought a ZWO ASI120MM mini guide camera, but I found that I didn't like ST4 guiding.  I then decided that the EQ5 Synscan Pro Goto upgrade kit was the way to go.  That certainly made improvements, as did getting a small RPi to do standalone stuff, very clever stuff!

I thought that a one shot colour camera would be even better, so I got the ZWO ASI224MC one.  It's gave me some good images, over the time I've had it.  I recently bought another refractor - a SW ST120 OTA, for wider views of DSO than can be obtained through my SW Evostar 120.  The idea was to do DSO imaging with the ST120, along with a Baader Contrast Booster filter attached to the from of the ASI224MC.

A mixture of poor weather, technical limitations of the budget equipment and my own limitations, have caused my to pause for the moment and reconsider... 

I'm thinking of selling the cameras and going to back to purely visual, but getting a AZ5 mount for the existing tripod (with adapter).

Ian ... what a refreshingly honest assessment , and one which i certainly understand .  

Buying the AZ5 is a great idea as it gives you the freedom to just set up in a few minutes .  I wish you well with your new direction . The key is , you are still into astronomy . Good luck mate .

 

[Stu]

The time commitment to setup, deal with pc and connection issues, plus processing are the reasons I’ve stuck with visual astronomy all these years. Often my sessions are short grab and go ones which are totally unsuited to AP.

I can only suggest going with what feels right; it’s all about enjoyment after all. Maybe before selling everything, just set yourself up for visual session and see how you go. Do you still have the dob? That should be enough to enjoy visual in a simple relaxed way.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Ian McCallum]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

The time commitment to setup, deal with pc and connection issues, plus processing are the reasons I’ve stuck with visual astronomy all these years. Often my sessions are short grab and go ones which are totally unsuited to AP.

I can only suggest going with what feels right; it’s all about enjoyment after all. Maybe before selling everything, just set yourself up for visual session and see how you go. Do you still have the dob? That should be enough to enjoy visual in a simple relaxed way.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

I still have the Dob and won't part with it, as it has sentimental value - My late mum looked through that telescope at Venus and Arcturus.

[RobertI]

Yes I’d echo Stu’s comments, try focussing on visual for a while, take the pressure off yourself, and see how it goes, but don’t rush to sell anything (unless you need the cash or space). You may find you are drawn back to simpler imaging, or even EAA, which is so much simpler. I’ve found my interest in different aspects of the hobby ebb, flow and evolve over time, so I hang on to my equipment if I can. 

[Ian McCallum]

Thanks for everyone's input.👍 I've ordered a AZ5 mount head and adapter for my EQ5 tripod, so that I can use my refractors on an Alt-Az mount for visual use.  My two ZWO cameras will be put back in the boxes, till I get the AP notion again...

[Elp]

I get what you mean, I've fallen down the rabbit hole myself but now I'm at a point where everything is set. The main stumbling block I had initially was my azgti just wouldn't autoguide, no matter what I did. Eventually I updated the firmware and by magic it just worked. I haven't looked back since having made a lot of progress over 12 months. I don't really have a choice where I am, its AP or nothing much else so I had to persevere with it.

[M40]

The upside down flower pot is a great move but go even simpler. Get a piece of plastic kitchen sink waste pipe, cut off three pieces at about 150mm long and once you have your mount polar aligned, bang them into the ground. Pull out the mud and grass from the pipe and drop in pea shingle or concrete. They can be mown over and no one will know they are there unless you look closely. Worked for me until the pier came along. Once leveled, at end of play just leave the tripod legs set at the levelled height. Speed is king. All the best.

[Ratlet]

I feel ya bud.  I've gone to a 30 minute rule:

If the AP takes more than a 30 minutes to get running, then it gets turned off so I can understand your reluctance.

Hopefully you'll get on better with the new setup.

[Jules Tohpipi]

I think the hardest step is the first one out the front door. Once outside the door everything seems easier. 
 

I’ve recently downsized after some time off. The 10” Goto dob had become too big and cumbersome for frequent viewing and my back. Now I’ve acquired a mak and ST102 and it’s cooking on gas once again. 
 

It’s supposed to be fun, right? Not a chore, challenge or commitment. Otherwise no incentive to stand up and grab the door handle - especially when the clear nights get really cold outside. Sometimes I think we get so wrapped up in what’s possible that we set ourselves unreasonable daily challenges. 
 

Maybe have fun with your dob for a while and take the full rig out only when you’re in the mood for it. 
 

[Hertford Stargazer]

I understand exactly how you feel, I'm fairly lucky with my situation. I'm only a casual astro photographer but I still found the set up was too time consuming, as I get older I need more sleep and struggle with late nights.

What I ended up doing gives me limited opportunity for AP but it's easy and still gives a sense of satisfaction. There are two main requirements, a very understanding wife and a nicely positioned window. 

To keep the post short I have a carefully positioned SW pier with an EQ6 and ED 80 permanently set up in front of our bedrooms south facing window. Alongside is a small desk with a dedicated laptop all wired and ready for imaging. I can even lay in bed using Wi-Fi to control the mount and laptop. Most of my imaging is done in the summer when the inside and outside temperatures can be easily matched by shutting the bedroom door, opening the window beforehand and using a fan on the window ledge to either blow air in or out according to the temperature mismatch. 

As I said it's a very limiting set up and not to most peoples taste, but it keeps me happy, just make sure nobody walks near the pier while actively imaging.

The rest of the time I'm very happy with a Dob or a refractor on an AZ4 doing some visual.

[F15Rules]

Sounds like you've made your decision Ian..but if you want a truly portable, "fast to set up" er, set up (and I really understand why you do, given your accommodation and viewing situation), I'd suggest serious consideration of a high quality 100mm apo refractor, say a Tak 100 if funds allow or an Altair 4" F7 if not. Fast to set up, and light to carry.

Your Evostar 120 achromat is a nice scope (my son in law has one), but if you really prefer visual, the Tak or Altair will deliver tighter stars, finer resolution and contrast and much better focusing at high powers. They will also give nice widefield views with the right eps.

So, I'd sell both Evostars and cameras, keep the new Altaz mount, and have just the one, excellent refractor..

And you would still have your 8" Dob for going deeper and retaining a scope with great sentimental value to you.

Good luck, whatever you decide..

Dave

[Alan White]

There is no backwards in returning to Visual Astronomy and keeping it very simple.
Simple works, has very few foibles and just works.
Good luck with the changes and hope it now works in a better way for you.

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Alan White