Let's talk about... floaters!

[Ags]

I have a real problem with floaters, those blobs of jelly that float around many people's eyes, wrecking the view of planets and the Moon at small exit pupils. With SCTs and Maks I've learned to stay at exit pupils of 1 mm or preferrably more. But with my ZS66 refractor, I can routinely use exit pupils of 0.5 mm without noticing any floaters! My eyes still have the same jelly blobs surely?

I have a theory that it is related to the blobs refocusing the central obstruction of the SCTs and Maks I've been using - in these scopes, the floaters appears as worms of bright and dark segments, while in the refractors the floaters are very subtle and hard to spot. In photography there is the term 'bokeh' describing the noisyness of the out of focus areas and camera mirror lenses are known for poor bokeh - so perhaps I am not bothered by floaters as much as by the poor bokeh of catadiatropcs?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Ags

[DaveL59]

That's interesting Ags, like most I also notice floaters esp when looking at bright areas like the sky in daytimes where I can see them, almost like gunk on a camera sensor. In fact that's what I thought I was seeing initially until I looked at some of the pics later on lol. I find with higher mag that I notice them more but I've not made any specific analysis on the types of scope and if they're more/less noticeable. Then again I don't have a MAK/SCT and can't say I'd noticed much difference between the fracs and newts I do have, will have to look more next time.

[dweller25]

For the first time in my life I developed floaters in my right eye 2 weeks ago.

I have not had a chance to view the planets yet but am hoping my binoviewers will help, fingers crossed.

[ONIKKINEN]

Im seeing the same amount of squiggly floaters on both my 8'' newton with 30%+ linear obstruction and a 90mm frac with no obstruction. But my floaters are i think maybe a bit more pronounced than "normal" floaters as they are from many stupid things as a teenager like welding without goggles, careless playing with lasers and the like. Nothing major but some burnt spots in my retina for sure so maybe there are also some extra floaters.

[rl]

I've always found floaters to be the perfect medical justification for aperture fever...given a magnification of *200 with a 2mm exit pupil they are much less of a problem!

[Ags]

49 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Im seeing the same amount of squiggly floaters on both my 8'' newton with 30%+ linear obstruction and a 90mm frac with no obstruction.

At the same exit pupil or at the same magnification?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Ags

[RobertI]

I have nasty floaters/meshes in my left eye from a ‘vitreous detachment’ a couple of years ago - apparently very common when you get to your 50’s. My right eye probably has a normal number of floaters. Binoviewers definitely helps me, somehow my brain seems to deal with them better in stereo.
 

As regards the OP’s question, I am probably going to commit a scientific  clanger here, but could it be to do with the size of the object being viewed? So if you are viewing Jupiter with a 0.5mm exit pupil in the SCT and ZS66, Jupiter will be the same brightness in both but Jupiter will be bigger in the SCT and there will be more area of planet against which to see floaters? I look forward to hearing the flaws in my argument. 😆

I viewed Mars through two 4” fracs a year or two ago as a little comparison. One was an F10 achro and the other an F7 ED. Interestingly I noted at the time that the floaters seemed less of an issue in the F10 achro when using the same exit pupil - as both are 4” the magnification and image size would have been the same, so I can only put it down to the fact that the F10 achro produced a dimmer and yellower image which showed floaters less. But perhaps a different explanation to what you are seeing.  

[ONIKKINEN]

30 minutes ago, Ags said:

At the same exit pupil or at the same magnification?

Similar exit pupils for both between a bit less than 1mm down to 0.6mm, vastly different magnifications with the difference in instrument size of course. The exit pupils with the frac are a little bit smaller though as im using the same eyepieces and barlow but it is f/5.5 instead of the f/4.4 newtonian without paracorr or f/5 with. Sometimes they bother me sometimes they dont, but generally as my eye gets more strained during the night the more it starts bothering me.

With low magnification wider field stuff with large exit pupils i cant see them, or at least i dont notice them.

[Ags]

Well, I was just observing Mars with the ZS66 and there were a few floaters after all... Interesting idea about a bigger planet image catching more floaters - for a while I have had the opposite theory of trying ridiculously small exit pupils to make the planet image much larger than the floaters! 

[VNA]

Hello, enjoy your floaters! I see my  ophthalmologist every six months and tell me that the macular degeneration has stopped!

Great after almost all the damage is done, but now he tells me I should see floaters, not sure what they are and I don't think I have seen any?

All I know is I can't see by "averted vision" so a few floaters won't make things worse, won't bother me reading, driving because I can't anymore.

At least I still can enjoy star gazing with my scope, so floaters or not won't make much of a difference. '- )

 

 

 

 

 

14

Optometrists

 

[Ags]

@VNA Great news the MD has stopped and you can still enjoy astronomy!

You are right, in the great scheme of things floaters are only a little annoyance.

[Mr Spock]

9 hours ago, Ags said:

the floaters appears as worms of bright and dark segments,

As someone with diabetic retinopathy, I have strings of these across my observing eye. They are annoying, obstructive, and won't go away 🤬

At least I can still see detail with that eye (left), albeit obstructed. My right eye has diabetic maculopathy which renders Jupiter as a blank disc 

[badhex]

Not sure if this is a stupid question but could (at least some) floaters be helped by using some basic eye drops before an observing session? I have noticed occasionally when I have a floater directly in my vision that a few vigorous blinks can sometimes help, and I wondered if eye drops might help. 

[dweller25]

3 hours ago, badhex said:

Not sure if this is a stupid question but could (at least some) floaters be helped by using some basic eye drops before an observing session? I have noticed occasionally when I have a floater directly in my vision that a few vigorous blinks can sometimes help, and I wondered if eye drops might help. 

Sadly, Eye drops do not help with internal floaters

[markse68]

Does anyone else do the eye flick trick? A rapid flick of the eyeball to the side usually shifts my floaters enough to get a better view though they always swim back. I’m also working on eyeball exercise of rolling them as wide as possible to reform them into spheres to cure my (untested) astigmatism.

Mark

[Ags]

26 minutes ago, markse68 said:

Does anyone else do the eye flick trick?

I do, but it even if it works on floater A, it probably brings the even bigger floater B into view.

Another trick I try is raising my head, and letting gravity drag the blobs away from the lens - I have suspicion that while I look down, the floaters settle like snowflakes on the back of my lens.

[Stu]

4 hours ago, badhex said:

Not sure if this is a stupid question but could (at least some) floaters be helped by using some basic eye drops before an observing session? I have noticed occasionally when I have a floater directly in my vision that a few vigorous blinks can sometimes help, and I wondered if eye drops might help. 

I need to do some more checking on this, but I have found two things that may help. Firstly, looking up for five to ten seconds seems to settle whatever debris is causing the issue somewhere where it isn’t visible. I can then have a short period (30 seconds?) of observing without them showing.

The second point is about observing position, which does still relate to the above. I normally observe looking down into the eyepiece on my refractors. I think this makes things worse, and have tried having the eyepiece positioned horizontally to the side. If I do step one, then observe from the side, I believe that it helps keep the debris out of sight for much longer.

As said, I’ve tried this briefly a few times but find observing with the eyepiece horizontal much less comfortable and intuitive than looking down into it, unfortunately.

[badhex]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

I need to do some more checking on this, but I have found two things that may help. Firstly, looking up for five to ten seconds seems to settle whatever debris is causing the issue somewhere where it isn’t visible. I can then have a short period (30 seconds?) of observing without them showing.

The second point is about observing position, which does still relate to the above. I normally observe looking down into the eyepiece on my refractors. I think this makes things worse, and have tried having the eyepiece positioned horizontally to the side. If I do step one, then observe from the side, I believe that it helps keep the debris out of sight for much longer.

As said, I’ve tried this briefly a few times but find observing with the eyepiece horizontal much less comfortable and intuitive than looking down into it, unfortunately.

Good tips, thanks. Agreed on the sideways observing! It's obviously very useful if you have a rotating focuser for objects lower on the horizon, but I don't really like it. 

[quaoar]

Since I went on a meat only, 1 meal a day diet, 4 years ago my floaters have disappeared. I'm 55. FWIW. 

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, quaoar said:

Since I went on a meat only, 1 meal a day diet, 4 years ago my floaters have disappeared. I'm 55. FWIW. 

I'm picturing you like this at mealtime: 😄

[F15Rules]

On 11/10/2022 at 01:23, RobertI said:

Binoviewers definitely helps me, somehow my brain seems to deal with them better in stereo

+1 for that.. Binoviewing definitely reduces the floaters I see.

My right (observing) eye began to noticeably deteriorate c 5 years ago..the eye went "foggy" and I had an emergency appointment as I did a lot of driving for my work at the time, and it was very worrying.

The optician advised that I'd had some flaking and loosening of the lining inside my eye which then mixed with the vitreous fluid to act rather like a Christmas Toy Snow scene, where you shake it and watch the snow fall..

He said it should settle in a few weeks, and so it did, but the eye has never been the same again, to the point that I've had to train my left eye to be my main Cyclops observing eye. My left eye is definitely sharper and less prone to floaters than my right. I'm told it's part of the ageing process and there's nothing to do about it medically. 

I also find more glare when driving at night, from oncoming car headlights.

Thankfully, binoviewing does definitely help me with floaters, although bv's I find not suited to all viewing for me, so I think I'll always need/want to be able to Cyclops view too..just with my left eye, so long as it holds up..🙏

Decent eyesight is such a precious gift!

Dave

[Alan White]

I have always had floaters, noticed ever since I looked through any optics and before as a child.

@Stu's method of looking up and getting 30ish seconds is the one I have learnt to apply with some sucess,
but I have tried to stick at Exit Pupils above 0.5 as @Ags mentions and larger where possible.

The aperture fever mentioned sounds good to me, I wonder is a 16" Dobsone would resolve this?
And can I get one on prescrition from the Doctor? 😉

[Stu]

4 minutes ago, Alan White said:

I have always had floaters, noticed ever since I looked through any optics and before as a child.

@Stu's method of looking up and getting 30ish seconds is the one I have learnt to apply with some sucess,
but I have tried to stick at Exit Pupils above 0.5 as @Ags mentions and larger where possible.

The aperture fever mentioned sounds good to me, I wonder is a 16" Dobsone would resolve this?
And can I get one on prescrition from the Doctor? 😉

Yes, below 0.5mm starts to get horrid, unless it’s just for double stars. Binoviewers are my solution for that, particularly for solar and lunar observing.

Aperture is certainly the answer to counter floaters in many ways as it increases exit pupil at a given magnification. My 8” f8 is a great scope for planetary and lunar observations for that reason, as well as resolution of course.

[JeremyS]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:28, Stu said:

Firstly, looking up for five to ten seconds seems to settle whatever debris is causing the issue 

I wondered why you did this Stu: 🙄

I though it was that someone had mentioned slo-mo’s 

[LDW1]

My right eye (dominate) are a mass of floaters, luck will have it that my left is absolutely floater free, so I easily trained myself to view with my left. My Opthamologist says there is no cure for floaters, unfortunately. Good luck and Clear Skies to you !