Next telescope - upgrade from Heritage 150

[AlcorAlly]

Dear all,

Please help me choose my next telescope.

I have a 6 inch reflector (Skywatcher heritage 150p). I love this little telescope and spend hours with it every time we get clear skies. 

But I started thinking about the next step as I get more into the hobby. Here are the things that are important: 

1. The telescope would be used for visual observing for now but I’d like to have an option to use it for photography later, if I develop an interest in it. For the time being it’s visual only but I’d rather not limit my future options.
2. It needs to offer a significant improvement to my current 6 inch dob - more detail on DSOs and planets, better clarity and quality of viewing overall. I want a noticeable visual  upgrade, not just a slight improvement. I considered a bigger dob (10 inch) but concerned that it might limit my options in the future, if I decide to venture into astrophotography .
3. Each part (tube and mount) should be 8-10kg maximum. The tube should be easily attached to the mount, it shouldn’t be too fiddly and awkward to set up and move around the garden.
4. I have two good quality eyepieces (second hand 7 and 11mm Naglers) and I’d love to make the best use of them in the my next scope.
5. I’m not thinking about the budget at this stage. Once the options are clear I can work out if I need to save up and for how long. 

I would appreciate any advice you could share. Thanks everyone in advance. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by craftui

[cajen2]

Expensive. If you want to improve on the 150p materially, you'll need either a bigger dob or a giant cadioptric or reflector. I suppose you could put an 8" or 10" newt on a mount/tripod for imaging but again, expensive.

The cheapest option would be to get a tracking EQ platform, but they're not very accurate, so limiting you to short exposures.

[Guest]

For visial you can't beat a big dob.  While they arent the best for AP, there are plenty of vids out there proving it can be done.  So in my book you are now looking at a 10 or 12 inch go to scope.  Here in the States those run between 4 and 5 grand for GSO/Synta scopes and 3x that for the handmade premium stuff. 

[AlcorAlly]

Thank you. Could you give an example of a minimum catadioptric that would give a material improvement on 150p dob? Visual only for now. 

[AlcorAlly]

6 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

For visial you can't beat a big dob.  While they arent the best for AP, there are plenty of vids out there proving it can be done.  So in my book you are now looking at a 10 or 12 inch go to scope.  Here in the States those run between 4 and 5 grand for GSO/Synta scopes and 3x that for the handmade premium stuff. 

I understand it’s the case if we consider the options in the same price range. What are some of the other alternatives (besides dobs) that can offer a significant improvement on 150p for a visual observer? 

[cajen2]

To be very honest with you, one of my scopes is the Heritage 150p and its views are excellent. I recently looked through a huge and expensively-mounted SC and I was underwhelmed. Ok, it showed some nice DSOs but the contrast and sharpness weren't wonderful - nowhere near as good as the 150p.

I'm sure I'll now be shot down in flames by sundry cadioptric owners but I'm just reporting my experiences.

[cajen2]

If I had to go there, I'd investigate one of these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f8-m-lrs-ritchey-chrtien-telescope-ota.html or the 10" version.

But as you can see, by the time you've bought a tracking mount, tripod and accessories, you're looking at a whole new price bracket.

Edited October 3, 2022 by cajen2

[AlcorAlly]

10 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

To be very honest with you, one of my scopes is the Heritage 150p and its views are excellent. I recently looked through a huge and expensively-mounted SC and I was underwhelmed. Ok, it showed some nice DSOs but the contrast and sharpness weren't wonderful - nowhere near as good as the 150p.

I'm sure I'll now be shot down in flames by sundry cadioptric owners but I'm just reporting my experiences.

Hmm sounds extremely risky. I’m prepared to spend a lot more than I did on the Heritage but last thing I’d want is to be underwhelmed after spending 1.5K+ potentially. The Stella Lyra f8 options looks good, thank you. I’ll investigate, perhaps someone owns both SL and the Heritage. 

[cajen2]

One good thing about the SL is that it has a fixed mirror with a proper focuser, and so won't suffer from the image shift that you sometimes get with similar designs that use a moving mirror to focus.

I think @Mike Q is on the right lines with a larger, go-to dob.

[Orange Smartie]

I have the heritage 150p and I later upgraded to a 10" Stella Lyra dob. It's great, but if you want a light manageable telescope, this is not for you. It is big and it's heavy. Plus, not really suited to astrophotography.

[cajen2]

4 minutes ago, Orange Smartie said:

I have the heritage 150p and I later upgraded to a 10" Stella Lyra dob. It's great, but if you want a light manageable telescope, this is not for you. It is big and it's heavy. Plus, not really suited to astrophotography.

Yes, my other dob is the 8" StellaLyra version and it's excellent. I'd say I wouldn't want to go any larger if like me, you have to carry it out into the garden and back every time. 

I don't know about go-to dobs for AP, though they may well be fine. You'd certainly have a problem with field rotation as the mount would be alt/az.

Edited October 3, 2022 by cajen2

[AlcorAlly]

14 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Yes, my other dob is the 8" StellaLyra version and it's excellent. I'd say I wouldn't want to go any larger if like me, you have to carry it out into the garden and back every time. 

I don't know about go-to dobs for AP, though they may well be fine. You'd certainly have a problem with field rotation as the mount would be alt/az.

If I’m going to upgrade I’d like more of a step up than 6 to 8. But @Orange Smartie is right, 10 would be too big and bulky to drag in out of the house and around the garden. I’m not very strong! Also, it’s not something I can easily adapt/upgrade for AP later. 

[cajen2]

Have you a preference for particular targets? The F/8 RC StellaLyra seems to be a good all-rounder for this type of scope, but if your  particularly interested in lunar/planets, the F/12 Classical Cassegrain might be a better option: 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f12-m-lrs-classical-cassegrain-telescope-ota.html

Do be aware that both would give you a narrower FOV than you're used to with your dob.

By the way, my 8" is significantly better than the Heritage, especially because of the light-gathering capacity and the focuser.

Edited October 3, 2022 by cajen2

[AlcorAlly]

9 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Have you a preference for particular targets? The F/8 RC StellaLyra seems to be a good all-rounder for this type of scope, but if your  particularly interested in lunar/planets, the F/12 Classical Cassegrain might be a better option: 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f12-m-lrs-classical-cassegrain-telescope-ota.html

Do be aware that both would give you a narrower FOV than you're used to with your dob.

No preference, I love all targets 

Thank you, I’ll add the F12 to the list of options as well. Good point re FOV, I do enjoy the wide views!

[cajen2]

Sorry to say, you're a bit between a rock and a hard place if you want a wide-field scope that will materially improve on your 150p, be portable and good for both visual and imaging of all targets....😄 The only option would be a very very good ( = expensive) refractor with a tracking mount - a large Takahashi et al. At this point, I bow out, as I know much less than others here about fracs. 😉

Edited October 3, 2022 by cajen2

[bosun21]

If you don’t want to go the dobsonian route for whichever reason, be it you want tracking to allow AP, or just the physical size is too large then an SCT would meet your requirements. The images from an SCT are great and if you want a wider field then you have the option of using a reducer. I have a dobsonian and a Maksutov as well as a refractor as each have their niche in visual astronomy. A lot depends on how serious you are about doing AP. If serious then an EQ mount is advised, and if less so and you just want to snap a few pictures then an ALT/AZ go to would suffice. Don’t be put off getting a SCT as they can be great scopes. Good luck with whichever avenue you take.

[AlcorAlly]

38 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

If you don’t want to go the dobsonian route for whichever reason, be it you want tracking to allow AP, or just the physical size is too large then an SCT would meet your requirements. The images from an SCT are great and if you want a wider field then you have the option of using a reducer. I have a dobsonian and a Maksutov as well as a refractor as each have their niche in visual astronomy. A lot depends on how serious you are about doing AP. If serious then an EQ mount is advised, and if less so and you just want to snap a few pictures then an ALT/AZ go to would suffice. Don’t be put off getting a SCT as they can be great scopes. Good luck with whichever avenue you take.

Thank you! What are some of the drawbacks of owning an SCT? Would one require more frequent collimation than my Heritage? Any other trade off to consider? 

Is there a particular model you’d recommend that is likely to provide a material visual improvement on the Heritage 150?

Re AP I’m not that serious right now. I just don’t want to shut that door with my next purchase and then have to buy another telescope later if/when I become more serious. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by craftui
Typos

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @craftui

Maksutov’s and SCT’s hold collimation well.

Some downsides/drawbacks of an SCT are below…

• narrow field of view.
• can be bulky if over 8” or 9.25” - may require two or more people to attach/remove from mount - some good ideas on YouTube if you are setting up on your own.
• high f/ratio (f:10 and above) if not used with a focal reducer/field flattener [FF/FR] the most popular ones being f:6.3 or f:3.3 for an f:10 ‘scope.
• notorious dew magnet.
• long cool down time.
• mirror flop/slop - not experienced this on my C6.
• large secondary mirror.
• adding accessories such as a ‘crayford’ focus, SCT or 2” push-fit diagonal, etc. will add more weight to the rear end and the OTA will need re-balancing.

 

[AlcorAlly]

2 hours ago, cajen2 said:

The only option would be a very very good ( = expensive) refractor with a tracking mount - a large Takahashi et al. 

A large Takashi is over £10,000! Does one really have to pay that much to get an improvement on their Heritage while maintaining compact form? Sounds a bit extreme. There must be some options in between…The scopes you suggested before could work, I’m looking into them! 

[AlcorAlly]

45 minutes ago, Philip R said:

Hi @craftui

Maksutov’s and SCT’s hold collimation well.

Some downsides/drawbacks of an SCT are below…

• narrow field of view.
• can be bulky if over 8” or 9.25” - may require two or more people to attach/remove from mount - some good ideas on YouTube if you are setting up on your own.
• high f/ratio (f:10 and above) if not used with a focal reducer/field flattener [FF/FR] the most popular ones being f:6.3 or f:3.3 for an f:10 ‘scope.
• notorious dew magnet.
• long cool down time.
• mirror flop/slop - not experienced this on my C6.
• large secondary mirror.
• adding accessories such as a ‘crayford’ focus, SCT or 2” push-fit diagonal, etc. will add more weight to the rear end and the OTA will need re-balancing.

 

Thank you, this is really useful to know. I will need to be able to attach/remove it from mount easily on my own.

What aperture would I need in SCT to see a visual improvement over the Heritage on most targets?

[cajen2]

50 minutes ago, Philip R said:

Hi @craftui

Maksutov’s and SCT’s hold collimation well.

Some downsides/drawbacks of an SCT are below…

• narrow field of view.
• can be bulky if over 8” or 9.25” - may require two or more people to attach/remove from mount - some good ideas on YouTube if you are setting up on your own.
• high f/ratio (f:10 and above) if not used with a focal reducer/field flattener [FF/FR] the most popular ones being f:6.3 or f:3.3 for an f:10 ‘scope.
• notorious dew magnet.
• long cool down time.
• mirror flop/slop - not experienced this on my C6.
• large secondary mirror.
• adding accessories such as a ‘crayford’ focus, SCT or 2” push-fit diagonal, etc. will add more weight to the rear end and the OTA will need re-balancing.

 

You're of course quite right on all counts. The Ritchey-Chretian 8" that I suggested before may solve some of those problems: at F/8 it isn't so bad for FOV, shouldn't need an FF/FR and has a fixed primary, so mirror shift wouldn't be an issue.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, cajen2 said:

One good thing about the SL is that it has a fixed mirror with a proper focuser, and so won't suffer from the image shift that you sometimes get with similar designs that use a moving mirror to focus.

I think @Mike Q is on the right lines with a larger, go-to dob.

What?  You are agreeing with me?  Hold on a minute I need to write this down LOL. 

[Guest]

Lets throw a truss dob out there.  They can be broken down into smaller pieces so you dont have to handle it all at one time.  A truss dob in the 10 to 12 inch area are available as go to units.  This would give you a significant boost in light gathering capacity, tracking for AP and while more time consuming, it would be easier to move. 

[RT65CB-SWL]

There is a 9.25 bundle (with images) in the for sale section, to give you an idea of the size, etc.

[Orange Smartie]

A slightly left-field suggestion here - could you not have a go-to dob stored in a shed or outbuilding on a trolley? Then you wouldn't have to do any actual lifting. @Dave scutthas a nice one.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/384441-trolley-to-move-my-dobsonian-about/?do=findComment&comment=4151161

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Orange Smartie