Greek deities and their planetary counterparts

[Westmoorland]

Was Ares and his Roman counterpart 'Mars' associated with his planetary namesake or were the celestial bodies regarded as something different to the ancients. I mean, if the planet Mars was also represented the Deity how did they know it has a scar across it's surface/face like a warrior and has 2 moons/attendants 'Phobos and Deimos'. I know Immanuel Velikovsky wrote a book called 'Worlds in Collision', exploring the idea of the planets being much closer to earth in ancient times, but it's regarded as fringe stuff. But honestly, how else would the ancients know Mars has the aspect of a warrior from mere naked eye observations such as we see it today?

 

The prospect of the Red Planet looming in the night sky as large as the moon is an intriguing thought, but I wont dispel it unless I'm completely off regarding the etymology of the planets and the old Gods. I hope there's a few scholars here who've wrestled with this one and can enlighten me.

[Franklin]

I think it's because it's red and red is the colour of blood and war and all that.

[Ags]

I believe Mars was named for the war god partly because of its red color and also for its erratic and often retrograde motion in the sky. Deimos and Phobos were discovered and named in modern times and given names fitting for the satellites of a war god.

[Westmoorland]

If Mars appeared to the ancient unaided eye as it does to us today then they couldn't have discerned much colour. Phobos and Deimos are named attendants of the war God in ancient texts, so, what are the odds a mythological representation of a planet/God could match modern sciences observations of Mars?...Unless it's orbit was once much closer? Close enough to see a scarred, bloody face and two followers. 

 

I'll research 'Ares' for any reference in ancient writings that he had a scar across his face.

[Elp]

Why is the planet named for Mars?

The planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn were known to the ancients, who variously named them after gods and goddesses. Mars is visibly reddish, which apparently suggested to the Babylonians Nergal, a god of war and fire.

The Greeks likely adapted this Babylonian nomenclature, calling the planet Pyroeis (Greek for “fiery”; think pyro), identified with Ares. The Romans then adapted the Greek names to their own pantheon, naming the fourth planet after their god of war, Mars.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/friday-mars-moon-hoax/

Most ancient cultures looked at it in a similar fashion, it does look distinctly red or a dull brown in the night sky.

Remember back then they didn't have to contend much with light pollution or ruining their eyesight with screens and shortsighted activities so colours and stars will have been more apparent. Betelgeuse is another example of a distinctly red orange colour different from other stars seen with the naked eye.

[Westmoorland]

24 minutes ago, Elp said:

Why is the planet named for Mars?

The planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn were known to the ancients, who variously named them after gods and goddesses. Mars is visibly reddish, which apparently suggested to the Babylonians Nergal, a god of war and fire.

The Greeks likely adapted this Babylonian nomenclature, calling the planet Pyroeis (Greek for “fiery”; think pyro), identified with Ares. The Romans then adapted the Greek names to their own pantheon, naming the fourth planet after their god of war, Mars.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/friday-mars-moon-hoax/

Most ancient cultures looked at it in a similar fashion, it does look distinctly red or a dull brown in the night sky.

Remember back then they didn't have to contend much with light pollution or ruining their eyesight with screens and shortsighted activities so colours and stars will have been more apparent. Betelgeuse is another example of a distinctly red orange colour different from other stars seen with the naked eye.

Perhaps some reddish hue could be discerned but I struggle to understand how the planets could have stirred the ancient imagination unless at some period they had a much more dramatic view, accompanied by enough imbalances to our own planet to instil awe and fear.

[Ags]

5 hours ago, Westmoorland said:

Perhaps some reddish hue could be discerned but I struggle to understand how the planets could have stirred the ancient imagination unless at some period they had a much more dramatic view, accompanied by enough imbalances to our own planet to instil awe and fear.

The most dramatic views I have ever had of the sky have been naked eye views.  The planets are remarkable because they both move and are brighter than any star. I don't think there is any mystery as to why the ancients noticed the planets and thought they were important.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ags

[Zermelo]

16 hours ago, Westmoorland said:

Immanuel Velikovsky wrote a book called 'Worlds in Collision', exploring the idea of the planets being much closer to earth in ancient times, but it's regarded as fringe stuff

Isaac Asimov wrote an essay demolishing some of Velikovsky's stuff, probably over 50 years ago now.

[DaveS]

From my Bortle 3 locatition Mars is very distinctly red, and the ancient Greeks and Romans would have had Bortle 1-2 skies so much more obvious.

This is heading dangerously close to woo-woo,

[saac]

I must admit I don't agree that there is any doubt about Mar's red colour.  To my naked eye it has a very definite and strong Red colour, it is pretty obvious.   It would have been more so to the ancients who named it, they would have seen it  hanging in the blackest of skies and would have had all the time in the world to study it. 

Jim  

Edited October 4, 2022 by saac

[DaveS]

I was up this morning just as it was getting light. Mars was well placed between Betelgeuse and Aldebaran, and was very obviously the brightest and reddest of the three.

[Ags]

It's worth noting that a myth was picked that matched the observations. While Deimos and Phobos are regarded as attendants or aspects of the deity, they are also only two of the six or so sons of Ares. If Mars had six moons, obviously the names of the sons would have been employed... if there was only one moon a singular association would have been picked, perhaps Ares' lover Aphrodite.

Also we have to think how very small Mars is. It would only look as big as our Moon if was insanely close - less than 2 moon orbits from us. Also, unlike the Moon it is a difficult low-contrast target and I doubt even under those circumstances would Valles Marineris have been discovered by a naked eye ancient observer - we only discovered it with a space probe after all. On the Moon high contrast features like the seas were only named in the telescope age.

Also, I don't think there is any classical reference to Ares/Mars being scarred. I think he was a rather handsome young man in all the stories, which is how he won the heart of shallow Aphrodite. Here is a typical Roman copy of a Greek statue of Ares:

Edited October 6, 2022 by Ags

[maw lod qan]

A few years back when it was close, the red hue was distinct enough  even my brother looked at it naked eye and said "you can definitely see red to it!"

We are bottle 3 or 4.

[Ags]

Not sure what Bortle's got to do with it... My skies are a "9" and Mars is superbly red... Less red in a telescope, but the color is vivid naked-eye.

[allworlds]

Venus is the goddess of love and it turned out to be the most hellish place in the solar system. I doubt that's what the Greeks and Romans had in mind.

[Westmoorland]

On 06/10/2022 at 11:29, Ags said:

It's worth noting that a myth was picked that matched the observations. While Deimos and Phobos are regarded as attendants or aspects of the deity, they are also only two of the six or so sons of Ares. If Mars had six moons, obviously the names of the sons would have been employed... if there was only one moon a singular association would have been picked, perhaps Ares' lover Aphrodite.

Also we have to think how very small Mars is. It would only look as big as our Moon if was insanely close - less than 2 moon orbits from us. Also, unlike the Moon it is a difficult low-contrast target and I doubt even under those circumstances would Valles Marineris have been discovered by a naked eye ancient observer - we only discovered it with a space probe after all. On the Moon high contrast features like the seas were only named in the telescope age.

Also, I don't think there is any classical reference to Ares/Mars being scarred. I think he was a rather handsome young man in all the stories, which is how he won the heart of shallow Aphrodite. Here is a typical Roman copy of a Greek statue of Ares:

Thanks for the satisfactory reply.  I've got an unread copy of Robert Graves' 'The Greek Myths' on my bookshelf and I think it's time to get stuck into it.