Entry level deep sky camera?

[nitram100]

Hi everyone,  I managed to have my first dabble with AP a while back with a very old cheap meade deep sky imager II. I was looking to get another camera for better images , have about £250 to spend.

 

Any recommendations?

 

Uinsg with the scope in my sig ! cheers

[Budgie1]

With your budget, I think you would be best to look for a second hand astro modified DSLR. One with a moveable read screen helps and you'll get use of the large sensor. 

The cheaper dedicated astro cameras tend to have smaller sensors and will limit your FOV.  

[barbulo]

+1 for a second hand DSLR. 

[Gfamily]

Do consider mirrorless cameras alongside dSLRs. 

I have a Sony A5000 (which isn't ideal, the A6000 is meant to be better); it has some issues, but it's 1/3 the weight of the dSLR that I was using previously.   That and a wired intervalometer makes it relatively easy to get into imaging. 

[nitram100]

Awesome thanks everyone, will keep an eye out on the astrobuysell site 👍👍

 

One question, can dslrs take decent planetary and lunar ?

 

Cheers

[Gfamily]

1 minute ago, nitram100 said:

Awesome thanks everyone, will keep an eye out on the astrobuysell site 👍👍

One question, can dslrs take decent planetary and lunar ?

Cheers

Lunar - definitely

Planetary - hmmm. The problem is the small image size on the sensor. If you use a barlow, and you have a long focal length, it can help, but as the image is straight onto the sensor, it will be small 

A usual approach for planetary is to capture a video stream for several 10s of seconds, and these are then processed using software. Some cameras will compress the image, so results may not be optimum. 

[ollypenrice]

I'm going to disagree.  Older, used, CCD cameras are available at remarkably low prices and will wipe the floor with DSLRs. They will have smaller chips but the sky is full of targets of all sizes and a proper astro camera gets more signal with less noise in less time. If one turns up, go for it. If it doesn't, put up with a DSLR.

Olly

[nitram100]

Just spotted an ASI 120 in classified for 85 quid, would that give any good DSO images? I see it's mainly a planetary imager.

 

Thanks

[Elp]

Due to its small sensor size it's better for planets. For DSO you generally need a decent sized sensor to get a target to fit reasonably well, smaller sensors can work but the other issue you'll have is the amp glow. I have tried my 224mc for DSO and can only expose for around 30s, the amp glow becomes hideous after 60s. For planetary it works well which is what it was designed for with the fast frame rate also. Cooled astro cams are what you want for DSO but they cost. As a compromise recently I acquired a 485mc non cooled within your budget, and have successfully done DSO with it despite it suffering from amp glow similar to a 183 sensor camera. The 485 is designed as a planetary camera also, but I thought the sensor size and resolution would work for DSO and it does.

Heres an example:

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Elp

[PEMS]

Thought I would throw in a quick look I did a few months back.

For £250 you are limited to either a DSLR, not sure about an astro modified one, or a used astro camera. As I have a DSLR my intention was to start and use that.

If you buy a standard body then remember that they all limit the amount of Ha (reddish) light that gets through. Canons seem to allow about 20% of the Ha through and Nikons about 10%. So not a lot of the often wanted Ha. Used bodies are often available at places like London Camera Exchange, Well the Norwich one has a fair number of bodies. Get a spare battery or two, and if used a couple of memory cards, and an intervalometer.

Astro camera - my search turned up the Altair 269C or the 294C, both new are around £600. Cooling is not peltier just a fan, work around it by reduced exposure times and a bit more cool down time. Don't get into the competition for the longest exposure known to man.

Astrophotography is painful on the wallet.

[gorann]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

I'm going to disagree.  Older, used, CCD cameras are available at remarkably low prices and will wipe the floor with DSLRs. They will have smaller chips but the sky is full of targets of all sizes and a proper astro camera gets more signal with less noise in less time. If one turns up, go for it. If it doesn't, put up with a DSLR.

Olly

A great idea Olly, but I wonder if those still holding on to their CCDs would ever be prepared to go as low as 250? But if nitram100 finds one he should go for it.

[vlaiv]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

I'm going to disagree.  Older, used, CCD cameras are available at remarkably low prices and will wipe the floor with DSLRs. They will have smaller chips but the sky is full of targets of all sizes and a proper astro camera gets more signal with less noise in less time. If one turns up, go for it. If it doesn't, put up with a DSLR.

Olly

Actually, something like Sony mirrorless camera with APS-C sensor can be faster than those "entry level" CCD cameras (at least those up to ~10mm in diagonal, like Atik 314+ and similar).

I'm not saying it will be true for novice, but someone that knows what they are doing is going to take advantage of real estate of APS-C sized sensor and turn that into speed.

Think about it - Diagonal that is almost x3 larger - means x3 larger scope will manage same FOV, but x3 larger scope for same F/ratio has x3 larger aperture and hence accumulates x9 as much light for the same FOV.

You can't beat that with good QE and thermal noise control.

[ollypenrice]

11 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Actually, something like Sony mirrorless camera with APS-C sensor can be faster than those "entry level" CCD cameras (at least those up to ~10mm in diagonal, like Atik 314+ and similar).

I'm not saying it will be true for novice, but someone that knows what they are doing is going to take advantage of real estate of APS-C sized sensor and turn that into speed.

Think about it - Diagonal that is almost x3 larger - means x3 larger scope will manage same FOV, but x3 larger scope for same F/ratio has x3 larger aperture and hence accumulates x9 as much light for the same FOV.

You can't beat that with good QE and thermal noise control.

But how much is a Sony mirrorless camera?

Oll

[gorann]

For 250 pounds, I would go for something like a used Canon 60D - I had a lot of good experience with that one but of course it is not like a cooled CMOS.

[vlaiv]

26 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

But how much is a Sony mirrorless camera?

Oll

I guess with a bit of effort one can be found used for 250?

Above was one of first google results for used A6000

 

[dph1nm]

At 1200mm focal length most modern cameras (both DSLR and astro cams) are going to give you rather small pixels. I have tried the Altair 224C on my 12" f4 as an experiment - pixels are about 0.8 arcsec. It works OK for *small* DSOs, if you can track well enough (its my guide cam, so I can only use it as the main cam unguided) - I don't mind the amp glow.  In fact I have been quite impressed with it, although it is a better match to my 4" SLT.

NigelM

[Clarkey]

I would agree that if you can get a cheap CCD then go for it. I started with a DSLR and they are a good entry into AP. Also second hand you are not going to lose much if you upgrade later.

FWIW I have a modified Canon 600D that I was about to sell. Probably wanting more than £250 though, but it does include a whole load of other stuff (cases, 3 lenses, m48 and m42 T-rings, wireless intervalometer, remote, batteries, CLS filter, dummy battery, memory card etc). PM me if you are interested.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Clarkey

[vernmid]

At the risk of being cheeky, I have a Canon 1100 astro modifed by Juan at Cheap astrophotography. It has served me well for a couple of years but I am about to sell it on. It will definitely be less that £250 😉  Let me know if you are interested. Once again, apologies for being bold!

[Pompey Monkey]

Can you go to 50% above budget?

There's an Orion Starshoot Pro v2.0 on Astrobuysell for £375. TEC, APSC sensor with nice big pixels that would work well at your focal length.

[StevieDvd]

1 hour ago, Pompey Monkey said:

Can you go to 50% above budget?

There's an Orion Starshoot Pro v2.0 on Astrobuysell for £375. TEC, APSC sensor with nice big pixels that would work well at your focal length.

From only what I read up on this camera it would look like being a bit of a pain getting the right drivers for it.