Jupiter from Sep 21st, Meade 12" LX200

[Magnum]

Jupiter from Sep 21st at 1:15am in fair seeing, with Ganymede and its shadow transiting. Some clear surface features showing on Ganymede.

Meade 12" LX200GPS + GSO2.5X Apo Barlow @ f23. QHY462C

2 x 90 sec captures @ 197fps

best 50% of 17500 frames each & derotated

Exp: 5Ms

Gain 324

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Magnum

[Kon]

That looks great including the details on Ganymede.

[neil phillips]

Some good detail Magnum. A RGB auto colour balance click. Sorts out the red heavy balance. A colour noise reduction helps the slight prismatic colour.

See what you think 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by neil phillips

[Magnum]

20 minutes ago, neil phillips said:

Some good detail Magnum. A RGB auto colour balance click. Sorts out the red heavy balance. A colour noise reduction helps the slight prismatic colour.

See what you think 

 

 

 

That was actually similar to how it started LOL, I always do RGB auto balance in Registax, but to my eyes it is always a bit on the blue side, so I increased the reds on purpose to perceptually matched it to an image I really like https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10226886614425121&set=gm.1212688352632496&idorvanity=882187155682619

Though his data is soooo much better than mine it can probably tolerate the saturation more than my one can.

I feel I prefer jupiter if its slightly on the yellow/red side, as when the whites have any blue in them at all it looks hazy to me. 

Thanks for your input though, your version looks similar to how I normally process it, ive been through about a dozen versions today but settled on this one.

Lee

Edited September 28, 2022 by Magnum

[neil phillips]

55 minutes ago, Magnum said:

That was actually similar to how it started LOL, I always do RGB auto balance in Registax, but to my eyes it is always a bit on the blue side, so I increased the reds on purpose to perceptually matched it to an image I really like https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10226886614425121&set=gm.1212688352632496&idorvanity=882187155682619

Though his data is soooo much better than mine it can probably tolerate the saturation more than my one can.

I feel I prefer jupiter if its slightly on the yellow/red side, as when the whites have any blue in them at all it looks hazy to me. 

Thanks for your input though, your version looks similar to how I normally process it, ive been through about a dozen versions today but settled on this one.

Lee

I know what you mean. There are plenty of people who prefer a redder cast. I am not one of them Personally. White ovals are indeed white. Plenty of white clouds on Jupiter. But I agree preference doesn't have to be accurate. It wasn't a mile off. Just blue light as you say. Prismatic effects are more of a problem. I get them all the time. Saturation makes them worse.

The more saturation the more prism effect is caused. Even with a ADC. Just minor taste things though. Best capture I have seen from you. And nice texture on the processing. Its good. The best UK seeing would help even more. Weather has stopped me in my tracks. Again, said rain coming last night.

Yeah right 

it was clear all night ☹️

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by neil phillips

[Magnum]

Thanks Neil.

im trying to work out what prismatic effects you are seeing, I’m looking at both and can’t really understand what you are looking at? I did have some fringing around the moon and the shadow which I had to clone out.

Lee

[AstroAdam]

2 hours ago, neil phillips said:

Some good detail Magnum. A RGB auto colour balance click. Sorts out the red heavy balance. A colour noise reduction helps the slight prismatic colour.

See what you think 

 

 

I’d say there’s a lot of subjective taste-based decisions when it comes to colour on Jupiter especially. I prefer the hues slightly warmer I must admit. Possibly somewhere in between the two above…

Edited September 28, 2022 by AstroAdam

[neil phillips]

1 hour ago, Magnum said:

Thanks Neil.

im trying to work out what prismatic effects you are seeing, I’m looking at both and can’t really understand what you are looking at? I did have some fringing around the moon and the shadow which I had to clone out.

Lee

Its not the worst I've seen Lee. I am quite sensitive to it after years of seeing it in varying amounts. Sometimes I leave it in. but mostly I try to reduce it. As it just reminds me of a prism effect which I hate. The only problem with doing colour noise reduction is, it will also drop the saturation as it removes the noise. ( you can up it again a bit after mind ) It also can soften the image slightly. 

But in my opinion its definitely false. It's likely a alignment effect. But I don't think it can be realigned. So, removal or putting up with it is the two choices, I think.

Try a heavy saturation on various captures Lee and you will start to see what I am talking about I am sure. Sometimes it can look really bad. Other times like here not quite so bad. it's there though, I could clearly see it. Problem with starting to see it is. You will always see it thereafter. Ignorance can be bliss sometimes as they say. 

Some examples colour noise reduction image analyzer

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by neil phillips

[neil phillips]

43 minutes ago, AstroAdam said:

I’d say there’s a lot of subjective taste-based decisions when it comes to colour on Jupiter especially. I prefer the hues slightly warmer I must admit. Possibly somewhere in between the two above…

I don't think colour accuracy is subjective as in weights. Or software wouldn't be able to measure it Correctly.

which Although registax can get it wrong sometimes (I've seen it) For the most part its fairly close to correct weights of the RGB colours. Taste is totally subjective. Agree with that. 

[Magnum]

1 hour ago, neil phillips said:

I don't think colour accuracy is subjective as in weights. Or software wouldn't be able to measure it Correctly.

which Although registax can get it wrong sometimes (I've seen it) For the most part its fairly close to correct weights of the RGB colours. Taste is totally subjective. Agree with that. 

I always tend to refer back to Damian Peaches images as I think most of us aspire towards his images, and most of his are slightly warm never any blue in them. Also  It depends what we call white, white comes in all different shades, when calibrating TVs D65 is regarded as accurate and is a warm white. Here is one of Damians Jupiters which i think looks perfect. Ive put it side by side with mine and the color balance looks very similar to me, so as Adam says somewhere between the 2 is probably idea. I will take 2 or 3 points out of the red channel and see how that looks. Though i think my version is much closer than the version you edited. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Magnum

[Magnum]

49 minutes ago, neil phillips said:

Its not the worst I've seen Lee. I am quite sensitive to it after years of seeing it in varying amounts. Sometimes I leave it in. but mostly I try to reduce it. As it just reminds me of a prism effect which I hate. The only problem with doing colour noise reduction is, it will also drop the saturation as it removes the noise. ( you can up it again a bit after mind ) It also can soften the image slightly. 

But in my opinion its definitely false. It's likely a alignment effect. But I don't think it can be realigned. So, removal or putting up with it is the two choices, I think.

Try a heavy saturation on various captures Lee and you will start to see what I am talking about I am sure. Sometimes it can look really bad. Other times like here not quite so bad. it's there though, I could clearly see it. Problem with starting to see it is. You will always see it thereafter. Ignorance can be bliss sometimes as they say. 

Some examples colour noise reduction image analyzer

 

Hmm i can see the orange is maybe a bit strong but  just looks more saturated to me, my eyes really arent detecting a prismatic effect at all, I may have pushed the saturation above what my data can support when i was trying to perceptually match it to other better images
As you say colour noise reduction really robs the saturation and i hate that more than the effect you are sensitive to.

thanks for the feedback, i will look again tomorrow but for now i prefer the more saturated version, except when viewed in this highly zoomed in view.

lee

[neil phillips]

 

28 minutes ago, Magnum said:

Hmm i can see the orange is maybe a bit strong but  just looks more saturated to me, my eyes really arent detecting a prismatic effect at all, I may have pushed the saturation above what my data can support when i was trying to perceptually match it to other better images
As you say colour noise reduction really robs the saturation and i hate that more than the effect you are sensitive to.

thanks for the feedback, i will look again tomorrow but for now i prefer the more saturated version, except when viewed in this highly zoomed in view.

lee

Well again i think that's a preference. Not necesarrily the most accurate colour balance. So yes i agree it isnt. closer to Damiens image highlighted. Maybe more closer to this

Emil K

The colour noise

Don't forget over time. The info might come in handy ? I have seen the effect so many times I can detect it even when it's not that bad. if you can't see it no problem. Maybe I am more sensitive to it for reasons outlined. Or maybe the 30" 4k monitor is showing it more here I don't know? But it is there. Though it's not the worst I've seen.

As for colour as per the discussion. Colour preference is one thing. Accuracy is another. Personally, I don't think Damiens balance on that capture is the last word in colour accuracy Red is where the detail is maybe that's why he prefers the lean? Though of course a great image. So, if you want to compare yours to that and are happy that its similar great. 

Other people might choose more blue into the mix. That I feel are more accurate. That personally I prefer. But now I know you prefer a slight red colour cast. I certainly won't be mentioning it again. Because i know it's your preference. its all good.

Here Emil kraaikamp more blue much whiter equatorial zone. Without the yellow cast.  I can find many others. But what's important is your preference. And nothing wrong in that. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by neil phillips

[Magnum]

Yes thanks I appreciated any info and take it all on board. I was mainly replying to explain it was out of choice rather than error. All my previous ones have been for the cooler bluer tone as they come out of registax after the auto balance, but I was never quite happy with them, then today I did this one on the warmer redder side and felt I hade made a step forward.

I guess that’s because all the ones I really like are also more red less blue but I hadn’t realised before now what the reason was that I like them.

I will have another play with it tomorrow and maybe go in between.

also I will go back to my previous colour enhance technique where I only increase the reds rather than the image as a whole. That should reduce any prismatic effect.

there is a similar discussion on cloudy nights regarding Saturn and Cassini colours and in that case Im on the other side of the opinion and  prefer the rings to be white rather than yellow LOL. 
Lee

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Magnum

[neil phillips]

22 minutes ago, Magnum said:

Yes thanks I appreciated any info and take it all on board. I was mainly replying to explain it was out of choice rather than error. All my previous ones have been for the cooler bluer tone as they come out of registax after the auto balance, but I was never quite happy with them, then today I did this one on the warmer redder side and felt I hade made a step forward.

I guess that’s because all the ones I really like are also more red less blue but I hadn’t realised before now what the reason was that I like them.

I will have another play with it tomorrow and maybe go in between.

also I will go back to my previous colour enhance technique where I only increase the reds rather than the image as a whole. That should reduce any prismatic effect.

there is a similar discussion on cloudy nights regarding Saturn and Cassini colours and in that case Im on the other side of the opinion and  prefer the rings to be white rather than yellow LOL. 
Lee

 

 

Its all-good Lee I enjoy the discussion. And i know quality when I see it. So, it interests me. And that's a quality capture. You know I want to get a bigger scope for next year. something 12" range too. Not sure yet? So again, seeing your captures this year i find interesting, in 12" range. I had a SW 300p some time ago. So i know what bigger scopes can do under the right conditions. My colour balance on my old website. Is all over the place lol. Think i have learned a lot in the years since. But i prefer to leave it. Its a record of learning. 

As you say try a go in between maybe. I know personally i like whites to look white. But the 462c is not the easiest to balance. as it bleeds into other colours a bit. So i often get it wrong lol. 

 

[Magnum]

12 minutes ago, neil phillips said:

Its all-good Lee I enjoy the discussion. And i know quality when I see it. So, it interests me. And that's a quality capture. You know I want to get a bigger scope for next year. something 12" range too. Not sure yet? So again, seeing your captures this year i find interesting, in 12" range. I had a SW 300p some time ago. So i know what bigger scopes can do under the right conditions. My colour balance on my old website. Is all over the place lol. Think i have learned a lot in the years since. But i prefer to leave it. Its a record of learning. 

As you say try a go in between maybe. I know personally i like whites to look white. But the 462c is not the easiest to balance. as it bleeds into other colours a bit. So i often get it wrong lol. 

 

Thanks Neil.

I also had a 300p about 10 years ago but was too heavy for my EQ6 at the time so I turned it into a Dob and tried to do drift captures but got frustrated with that after one night lol. It was very good visual scope.

the Meade 12” SCT’s scopes are pretty good but obviously the  C14s are better if you see one cheap. 
There is a guy ive been chatting to that has some amazing Saturn images and he’s got both a C11 and the Meade 12”, he reckons the meade just has the edge but as he has to travel to image he usually takes the C11

Lee

[Magnum]

Ive done a quick adjustment, just increased the white pontl slider of the blue channel by 5  points, so its only whitening the whites rather than the balance of the whole image. wont go further than this as then I see blue and I dont like that at all.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Magnum

[neil phillips]

2 hours ago, Magnum said:

Thanks Neil.

I also had a 300p about 10 years ago but was too heavy for my EQ6 at the time so I turned it into a Dob and tried to do drift captures but got frustrated with that after one night lol. It was very good visual scope.

the Meade 12” SCT’s scopes are pretty good but obviously the  C14s are better if you see one cheap. 
There is a guy ive been chatting to that has some amazing Saturn images and he’s got both a C11 and the Meade 12”, he reckons the meade just has the edge but as he has to travel to image he usually takes the C11

Lee

Did wonder about a second hand C11. Or another 12" Newtonian ?

[neil phillips]

1 hour ago, Magnum said:

Ive done a quick adjustment, just increased the white pontl slider of the blue channel by 5  points, so its only whitening the whites rather than the balance of the whole image. wont go further than this as then I see blue and I dont like that at all.

Jupiter does have blue clouds. So its tricky. Regardless its a nice capture congrats

[neil phillips]

16 hours ago, Magnum said:

Thanks Neil.

I also had a 300p about 10 years ago but was too heavy for my EQ6 at the time so I turned it into a Dob and tried to do drift captures but got frustrated with that after one night lol. It was very good visual scope.

the Meade 12” SCT’s scopes are pretty good but obviously the  C14s are better if you see one cheap. 
There is a guy ive been chatting to that has some amazing Saturn images and he’s got both a C11 and the Meade 12”, he reckons the meade just has the edge but as he has to travel to image he usually takes the C11

Lee

Whatever someone gets. I think the figure will determine if you get a good one. Average one. Or poor one. Had a bad C11 once. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by neil phillips