NINA stops tracking, ZWO driver error and more

[OK Apricot]

Hi guys, as per title really. If I start an imaging sequence, shortly into it the mount will stop tracking and PHD2 has a seizure. No real pinpoint other than between 5th and 8th subs? I started getting a driver error as well where the camera wouldn't put through an image even though it was still connected? I shut down everything and started again and this time PHD2 would tell me calibration was 42% out from last calibration even though nothing had changed. It became so frustrating tonight that I packed up under decent skies. 

I'm wondering if it might be anything to do with dew? It was particularly wet on surfaces and my laptop wasn't sheltered. I'm thinking to make sure I'm using the latest software versions, reset to default settings and try again at some point. 

A very disheartening night in the end, that got off to such a great start 😒. Here is the first light of my ASI533MC-Pro through the Evoguide 50ED. 

[pipnina]

This sounds very similar to a super frustrating issue I dealt with recently when computerizing my setup. it turned out that the USB hub in my RisingCam IMX571 was rubbish and was the source of my guidecam/filter wheel/autofocuser disconnections. I bought a proper USB3 hub which fixed the USB2 peripherals. They now all connect flawlessly.

HOWEVER. My USB3 RisingCam does NOT work through the USB3 hub! Turns out it can only make a USB2 connection through it and crashes the driver when trying to transmit data. That has to stay plugged into my laptop...

I also had an issue with my guidecam where dust or something got into the USB port, I got very frustrated with it not working correctly for an hour before trying the classic nintendo "blow on the cartridge" solution on the USB port.

 

[OK Apricot]

Thanks. I did have the guide cam plugged in through the USB hub on the 533, so with that I'll order a separate hub and blow out my cables. 

What about cable length? My EQDIR cable is 5m - I wonder if that's a bit long and the laptop sends/receives questionable signals? 

Edited September 11, 2022 by OK Apricot

[Varavall]

5 hours ago, OK Apricot said:

What about cable length? My EQDIR cable is 5m - I wonder if that's a bit long and the laptop sends/receives questionable signals? 

Hi

I use a 10m Startech active powered USB 3 cable (expensive but very good) and that sorted out the problems I had which you are having now. Until I save the pennies and go for a Pegasus Powerbox, I connect the filter wheel and HEQ5 EQMOD cable to the USB 2 hub on my ASI1600MM which connects to the Startech, and the ZWO EAF and guide camera to a separate USB 2 mini-hub on a 15m powered USB 2 cable (cheap and cheerful), both running to my laptop in the house. Yes, I use NINA and PHD2 also.

Adrian

[OK Apricot]

Cheers Adrian. Before I saw your reply I'd ordered a USB 3.0 hub to cut out the camera hub. If I get the startech or any other powered 3.0 cable and run it like this... 

Devices > hub > powered usb > laptop

... I shouldn't get any issues? This doesn't do much for the EQDIR cable length though. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

14 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

Cheers Adrian. Before I saw your reply I'd ordered a USB 3.0 hub to cut out the camera hub. If I get the startech or any other powered 3.0 cable and run it like this... 

Devices > hub > powered usb > laptop

... I shouldn't get any issues? This doesn't do much for the EQDIR cable length though. 

Plug the EQDIR into the hub. 

Until recently, when I splashed out on a MELE quiter3 mini pc to attach to my pier, I was running a 15m active USB3 cable inside the house through the cat flap on imaging nights. Ran that for 3 yrs with a startech usb3 powered hub stuck on the side of the mount with the mount/cam/guidecam/focuser plugged into it. 

I really do recommend a mini pc on the scope though after swapping to it. If you factor in the cost of the usb3 hub and a good quality usb3 active cable it really doesn't work out too expensive.

[Varavall]

2 hours ago, OK Apricot said:

If I get the startech or any other powered 3.0 cable

If you go for this, make sure it is an ACTIVE powered cable, lesser will not do!

[OK Apricot]

Will do, thank you. 

It's worth saying I like to take my kit to a club dark(er) site so none of this is a permanent fixture - I already use the laptop so wouldn't a mini pc be a waste? 

Edited September 11, 2022 by OK Apricot

[Anthonyexmouth]

4 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

Will do, thank you. 

It's worth saying I like to take my kit to a club dark(er) site so none of this is a permanent fixture - I already use the laptop so wouldn't a mini pc be a waste? 

Not really, leaving laptops out over winter when its below freezing isnt a good idea for the screen or battery. Being able to remote into the the mini pc while using the laptop from the comfort of an arm chair anywhere in the house. 

Everything can be mounted and plugged into the mini pc on the mount, no trailing wires to the laptop. 

Yes, the long usb lead solution does work, I used it for over 3 yrs but really regret not getting a mini pc sooner.

A good quality USB3 active/powered cable + a powered USB3 hub is gonna cost over £100, if it doesn't then it's probably not goning to be very good when it gets really cold out, thats when the cheaper ones fail. 

Put that towards a mini pc, keeps cables really short and tidy and massively more flexible

 

[Varavall]

50 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

A good quality USB3 active/powered cable + a powered USB3 hub is gonna cost over £100,

The RRP of a 10m Startech USB 3 active cable is around £170  and the hubs are £50-115 depending on number of ports. So say over £200! But the Mele at £500 ish is water impermeable? Thinking of those heavy dews. You pays your money and takes your choice. I sit in the comfort of my home with the cables running through the wall. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

29 minutes ago, Varavall said:

The RRP of a 10m Startech USB 3 active cable is around £170  and the hubs are £50-115 depending on number of ports. So say over £200! But the Mele at £500 ish is water impermeable? Thinking of those heavy dews. You pays your money and takes your choice. I sit in the comfort of my home with the cables running through the wall. 

Mele is nowhere near £500 

I paid £211 for one with a little power adapter lead for my homemade 12v breakout box.

It says warm enough to avoid any dew issues on the box. 

 

I used to sit inside with my 15m usb cable coming through the catflap. Now I can also remote desktop into the MELE on my phone while i'm in bed to check it. 

[OK Apricot]

Thanks for the input. For the sake of the tenner or so that the hub was, I'll try that first. If that's still no good I'll go for a powered hub and cable. I enjoy the hands on feeling that being next to the rig gives me, but mostly I'm not comfortable leaving my kit unattended (work van was broken into a year ago which is parked behind the garden), so for now I'm going to rule out a mini PC and long cables running inside the house. 

A side thought - is dew the reason people put their laptops inside a blue bin type box when imaging? 

[Varavall]

On 11/09/2022 at 22:37, OK Apricot said:

I'm not comfortable leaving my kit unattended

How about a cheap webcam to keep your eyes on the kit when the weather is freeezing.

[AstroMuni]

On 11/09/2022 at 21:37, OK Apricot said:

so for now I'm going to rule out a mini PC and long cables running inside the house.

I appreciate that you have concerns on security....You dont need to have cables running into your house, btw. If you have an external powerpoint then thats a good start. You have options of ethernet over powerline or a wifi extender. Laptop and you can stay inside. I use the extender option and sit in a position where I can see the scope through windows.

On 11/09/2022 at 21:37, OK Apricot said:

A side thought - is dew the reason people put their laptops inside a blue bin type box when imaging? 

Yes. Keeps the heat in. Any old cardboard box will do too

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by AstroMuni

[OK Apricot]

I'm not sure I'd get the same sense of satisfaction from the hobby sitting away from my kit doing its thing. I'd sooner go the ASI air route just for simplicity setting up. 

I'd like to eliminate one thing at a time so I know what has worked. I've gone for a stand alone USB hub to start with to eliminate the 533 hub. If that's no good im thinking of a shorter EQDIR cable (2m). If that's still no good I'll put the hub on the mount, 1m (if I can get away with it) cables to mount/cameras into the hub and a powered USB cable to the laptop. If no good I guess I'll have to take a look at all my software, double check settings etc. Last resort I'll probably go ASI air. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

12 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

I'm not sure I'd get the same sense of satisfaction from the hobby sitting away from my kit doing its thing. I'd sooner go the ASI air route just for simplicity setting up. 

I'd like to eliminate one thing at a time so I know what has worked. I've gone for a stand alone USB hub to start with to eliminate the 533 hub. If that's no good im thinking of a shorter EQDIR cable (2m). If that's still no good I'll put the hub on the mount, 1m (if I can get away with it) cables to mount/cameras into the hub and a powered USB cable to the laptop. If no good I guess I'll have to take a look at all my software, double check settings etc. Last resort I'll probably go ASI air. 

What is you current and also planned cabling solution? 

 

[Varavall]

1 hour ago, OK Apricot said:

I'm not sure I'd get the same sense of satisfaction from the hobby sitting away from my kit doing its thing

Well as the nights draw in and you are imaging a target for 10 hours in subzero temperatures the novelty will soon wear off 😁

[pipnina]

13 minutes ago, Varavall said:

Well as the nights draw in and you are imaging a target for 10 hours in subzero temperatures the novelty will soon wear off 😁

Tolerable for long enough to set up the equipment for the night when imaging, or long enough to see your chosen targets for the night...

But after an hour I retreat back home / indoors for hot chocolate... Not to mention my visual 10" dob being metallic makes it sting to touch in the depths of winter. But the eyepiece locking screws are too fiddly for thick gloved hands!

[OK Apricot]

2 hours ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

What is you current and also planned cabling solution? 

 

Current cables are 5m Lynx astro EQDIR to control mount direct to laptop, 30cm(ish) USB-C from ASI120 to ASI533, 2m USB from ASI533 to laptop - the cables that were included in the camera packages. Other than that, EQ6-R standard power cable, lynx astro dew straps and hitec 2ch  controller. 

Planned? This was my plan... I'd just hoped it'd work better than it has so far 😂. 

Maybe you're right on the novelty thing - when I actually think about that length of time out in the cold..... I do cut inside for a coffee every so often when I'm at home so that would be fine - I can see the kit from the kitchen. Out at the club dark site though, the only shelter is a van so that's a real man's night out 💪

[OK Apricot]

So last night was another frustrating one. Crystal clear, really great transparency. I managed one hour 15 minutes before things started to go mental again. 

Same location, similar conditions - 8°C with 8-9°C dew points. Differences were I was using a separate USB 3.0 hub (unpowered), had the laptop hot-spotted to phone for WiFi and it was nestled in an old blue bin with cables coming through a few holes in the back. As the night went on it was clear the blue bin had really settled the dew issue on the laptop, it was dry whereas before it was... Wet. 

First part of the night was fine, guiding maybe a little questionable but had round stars so not to worry. Started a sequence on the second target and the mount stopped tracking, had disconnected from NINA but EQMOD still showed it as tracking sidereal. My kit would keep disconnecting, PHD2 would keep prompting "star lost - low HFD" etc. When it would "guide" for a couple minutes I was getting 60' of error, huge spikes in RA. My subs would have stars as clear cross shapes. 

I had zero issues a week prior in the garden using it all the same as last night. I don't know what else really. I brought the laptop inside the van and warmed everything up, plugged it all in again running cables through the window and tried again but was still giving the same issues. I don't get it - it was fine, then it wasn't. It got worse as the night went on so thought temp and humidity were the killer but sitting the laptop in a balmy 20°C van didn't change anything. Laptop? Mount? USB hub? I'm struggling to pinpoint what is causing the trouble. Focus was good, dew straps doing their job (sigh). 

Any ideas? It's got to be related to the weather conditions 🤔

[Anthonyexmouth]

4 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

So last night was another frustrating one. Crystal clear, really great transparency. I managed one hour 15 minutes before things started to go mental again. 

Same location, similar conditions - 8°C with 8-9°C dew points. Differences were I was using a separate USB 3.0 hub (unpowered), had the laptop hot-spotted to phone for WiFi and it was nestled in an old blue bin with cables coming through a few holes in the back. As the night went on it was clear the blue bin had really settled the dew issue on the laptop, it was dry whereas before it was... Wet. 

First part of the night was fine, guiding maybe a little questionable but had round stars so not to worry. Started a sequence on the second target and the mount stopped tracking, had disconnected from NINA but EQMOD still showed it as tracking sidereal. My kit would keep disconnecting, PHD2 would keep prompting "star lost - low HFD" etc. When it would "guide" for a couple minutes I was getting 60' of error, huge spikes in RA. My subs would have stars as clear cross shapes. 

I had zero issues a week prior in the garden using it all the same as last night. I don't know what else really. I brought the laptop inside the van and warmed everything up, plugged it all in again running cables through the window and tried again but was still giving the same issues. I don't get it - it was fine, then it wasn't. It got worse as the night went on so thought temp and humidity were the killer but sitting the laptop in a balmy 20°C van didn't change anything. Laptop? Mount? USB hub? I'm struggling to pinpoint what is causing the trouble. Focus was good, dew straps doing their job (sigh). 

Any ideas? It's got to be related to the weather conditions 🤔

What was your PA like?

Did you run a PHD calibration?

How long was the cable from the hum to the laptop? cheap usb hubs are a nightmare outdoors, colder they get the worse the are. 

[OK Apricot]

PA with SharpCap was 0.07“. I calibrate PHD2 each time I use it. Was all going well with first hour of subs coming out very nicely. Hub to laptop cable is 20cm. Guide cam, imaging cam cables 2m, EQDIR 5m.

[Anthonyexmouth]

11 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

PA with SharpCap was 0.07“. I calibrate PHD2 each time I use it. Was all going well with first hour of subs coming out very nicely. Hub to laptop cable is 20cm. Guide cam, imaging cam cables 2m, EQDIR 5m.

I'd put it down to the hub. I take it you don't have enough usb ports in the laptop. 

[OK Apricot]

17 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

I'd put it down to the hub. I take it you don't have enough usb ports in the laptop. 

Only two, three needed. The thing that bothers me is that this all worked really well a week ago in the garden - maybe not quite as cold or humid that night though. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

7 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

Only two, three needed. The thing that bothers me is that this all worked really well a week ago in the garden - maybe not quite as cold or humid that night though. 

Have you tried with the mount and guide cam into the camera hub? sorry if its in an earlier post, reading on a phone and not got my reading glasses.  If there is an issue with the camera hub I'd be inclined to get it sorted under warranty.