New to astronomy. Bought an 8" Skywatcher 200p, but having second thoughts...

[Gonzo0]

4 minutes ago, bingevader said:

But you have an MX5. 🙄

Yes, but the MX5 is a cheap car, lol. And, my only car. So yes, I am not made of money. 😂

I just feel I will see more with a 6" telescope in bortle 2 and 3 than I will with an 8" in bortle 5 and 6

[tomato]

3 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

Yes, but the MX5 is a cheap car, lol. And, my only car. So yes, I am not made of money. 😂

I just feel I will see more with a 6" telescope in bortle 2 and 3 than I will with an 8" in bortle 5 and 6

The crux is in your final statement, but I wouldn’t base your decision on feel. Maybe @vlaiv will see this thread and give you a more quantitative assessment of 6” in Bortle 2/3 vs 8” in Bortle 5/6.

[vlaiv]

18 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

I just feel I will see more with a 6" telescope in bortle 2 and 3 than I will with an 8" in bortle 5 and 6

I'm almost certain that this is true.

I've seen more with 4" in bortle 4 than with 8" in bortle 8

 

[Ags]

If we are talking of telescopes suitable for sports cars, I think someone has to say the magic word Takahashi. 😀

[ONIKKINEN]

I am seeing about the same things with a 90mm refractor under bortle 3-4 skies than i do with a 200mm scope under bortle 8+ skies. So i would say definitely worth it to haul a smaller scope further out of the city than try to just power through the lights with more aperture.
Dobs are bulky, and i think an eq or alt az mount + tripod will be easier to transport since it can be taken apart so maybe consider something other than the dobs? Will be more expensive though, so maybe not an option.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

18 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

Yes, but the MX5 is a cheap car, lol. And, my only car. So yes, I am not made of money. 😂

I just feel I will see more with a 6" telescope in bortle 2 and 3 than I will with an 8" in bortle 5 and 6

You will 'see more' with 10x50 binoculars in rural bortle 2/3 than an 8" reflector in urban bortle 8. 😀

If I could drive 15 minutes to a really dark site and definitely could not transport an 8" dob, then I'd settle for the 6" and an alt az mount. No qualms. The scope you use the most is the best... I started with a tripod mounted 130p went up to 200p dob then back to a tripod mounted 150p and truly cannot say I missed using the 8" dob. The 150P was a nice compromise and I don't remember why I sold it! Although now I own none of those and primarily observe with a 4" refractor. 🙄

Not every scope suits everyone. Choose the kit that fits your lifestyle, fitness (the dob murdered my back), environment (the dob couldn't see over hedges and fences like a tripod mounted scope) and wallet (aperture per buck the 8" dob wins but see the previous text!).

Good luck on your astronomy journey.

 

[markse68]

I’m just downsizing from an 8” to a 6” for pretty much the same reasons- can’t fit the 8” in current ulez friendly car so am stuck in bottle 9 with it. The 6 incher will fit in the boot (fiat 500) with alt az mount on foldable tripod so will get to travel to better skies. I have had some cracking views of the gas giants already from bottle 9 with it that quite surprised me! In theory the 8” will take higher magnification but only if the seeing allows. The thing with seeing is it changes all the time so the best way to get it is to get out as often as possible- so a 6” that gets used more often will likely catch you some better seeing and with the darker skies advantage it should be a lot of fun. That’s what i’m hoping for anyway  

Mark

[cajen2]

If the poor guy could afford a mount and tripod, he could afford the Heritage. Come on folks, be real here and help him out without his having to spend more.

There's nothing wrong with the Heritage and its mount. 

[CraigT82]

I’d much rather have the heritage 150 under a good dark sky than the 200p dob under a light polluted sky. I say get the heritage. For what it’s worth I have the 130 heritage ad I love it. 

[markse68]

26 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

If the poor guy could afford a mount and tripod, he could afford the Heritage. Come on folks, be real here and help him out without his having to spend more.

There's nothing wrong with the Heritage and its mount. 

Not sure that’s what i meant if you’re referring to my reply? I was merely agreeing that there’s nothing wrong with a 6” scope especially if it gets used more than a bigger one 🤷‍♂️

Mark

 

[Nyctimene]

+1 more vote for the smaller aperture of 150 mm. There will be a loss of about 0.6 stellar magnitudes compared to the 8" - noticeable, but not restricting, especially for a newbie. And the Heritage Flextubes are very easy to handle, very compact and lightweight, with (regarding the price) excellent optics. My 130 P holds collimation well - important for the transport situation. It will give you a lot of fun under dark skies. You will not regret the buy; and later, with a new car, more options are given.

Some food for thought below:

https://telescopenights.com/star-brightness-luminosity-and-magnitude-what-to-know/

Enjoy the journey, and Clear Skies!

Stephan

[Zermelo]

I'm going to side with the 6"-ers. 

You seem to have already started an honest discussion with yourself about the likelihood of your using the 8", and there's a lot to be said for the "scope that you will use" argument. Decent, dark skies count for a lot when you're observing. It's not just about what you can see with different sized scopes, there's also the sheer enjoyment of being out under really dark skies. I would rather observe with a smaller scope at a dark site than with a monster in the suburbs. Some people on SGL travel an hour or two to get less improvement than you can achieve just 15 minutes away, and that's valuable.

[Carbon Brush]

3 hours ago, tomato said:

How about a towing hitch and a small trailer?

I don't think you can get a towbar for the MX5.
Even if you can, the trailer becomes another item to store and maintain.

I carried a SW250 tube vertical on the passenger seat - wearing a seat belt of course🤣
A smaller tube will go behind the seats on the parcel shelf area - which is quite low, so a scope won't join you in the front when you brake.

3 hours ago, dweller25 said:

This is an Astronomy forum, so keep the fine scope, get rid of the daft car

The MX5 is a fun car. Handles like a go kart.
Easy to understand with incremental changes over the years of production and a huge aftermarket following.
A very active owners club. Dedicated parts suppliers & repairers.
No need to return to stealerships with your house deeds to turn off dashboard warning lights!

 

To keep the 200P I would.....
Take a good look at fitting the tube on the passenger seat.
Buy a boot rack and strap the base on there.
Put everything else (EPs, folding stool, etc.) in the boot.

[sorrimen]

I’m Ok_library from reddit. Glad you’ve come here to get some more opinions! I imagine it’s probably just made the decision even harder 🤣  

[Orange Smartie]

I have a 10" Dob (my second scope), which I bought after having a Heritage 150p for a while. The 10" is superior in a number of ways, but the 150p is still a very fine instrument, which I do still use and which has shown me many great things under appropriate conditions.

It's not really an all-or-nothing thing - good seeing conditions and dark skies will improve the view for both scopes and whilst you get better resolution and light-gathering with the bigger instrument, if you're not going to use it, it's obviously not going to work for you. If you can try both in similar conditions (is there a club or owner nearby you can contact to compare?) that might be worth doing. If you can't, and you can't transport the 8", I'd say go for the Heritage.

 

[Gonzo0]

15 minutes ago, sorrimen said:

I’m Ok_library from reddit. Glad you’ve come here to get some more opinions! I imagine it’s probably just made the decision even harder 🤣  

Good to see you here man 😄 

Yes, I think it has! Although, I'm feeling much better about the 150p's capabilities, especially in a dark sky. Although in saying that.. I just seen Saturn pretty well in my backyard with the 8 inch Dob, in poor seeing conditions too. It still looked great until the clouds consumed it. Arghhhh. I'm all over the place. Colimation has gotten lots easier like you had promised though! At the moment, I am leaning more towards the 150p. I think it'd be a whole other ballgame to just grab it and go to a dark site rather than put in a shift taking apart and reassembling the base every time I want to go out. 

[Gonzo0]

24 minutes ago, Orange Smartie said:

I have a 10" Dob (my second scope), which I bought after having a Heritage 150p for a while. The 10" is superior in a number of ways, but the 150p is still a very fine instrument, which I do still use and which has shown me many great things under appropriate conditions.

It's not really an all-or-nothing thing - good seeing conditions and dark skies will improve the view for both scopes and whilst you get better resolution and light-gathering with the bigger instrument, if you're not going to use it, it's obviously not going to work for you. If you can try both in similar conditions (is there a club or owner nearby you can contact to compare?) that might be worth doing. If you can't, and you can't transport the 8", I'd say go for the Heritage.

 

Sadly no club nearby, which is strange considering my town has a planetarium. I can imagine looking through a 10" to be much better than a 6". But I am sure the Heritage is great for grab and go sessions!

What have you seen in the Heritage?  Anything that you can see in the 10" that you can't in the 6?

[Gonzo0]

59 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

The MX5 is a fun car. Handles like a go kart.
Easy to understand with incremental changes over the years of production and a huge aftermarket following.
A very active owners club. Dedicated parts suppliers & repairers.
No need to return to stealerships with your house deeds to turn off dashboard warning lights!

I'm glad you get it. A lot of ignorance surrounding the MX5 and similar cars but you..... you get it.

A decent boot rack, cover, straps would probably end up costing as much as the heritage, though, which at that point I'd rather just buy it as a second scope.

[Orange Smartie]

21 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

What have you seen in the Heritage?  Anything that you can see in the 10" that you can't in the 6?

Hmm good question. I will check out my entries on here.....

In no particular order:

Split Rigel from Rigel B, Orion nebula, double cluster in Pegasus, Cor Caroli (double star), Leo trio of galaxies, M13 cluster, M94, M63, Andromeda galaxy, loads of other double/multiple stars, M53, M81/82, Saturn, Mars, Jupiter, Moon, Polaris (double star), NGC 4638, M59, M58, M89, M60 in Virgo, ring nebula, owl cluster, Caroline's rose cluster, M1 etc etc.

That's a small selection... 

Galaxies (for example the Leo triplet) are easily visible if it's dark enough, although you'll see them as faint smudges and not much more. I've seen the whirlpool galaxy in my 150p and there isn't much detail to it, but with dark adaptation and a dark night in a dark site, you see more. On a night when there's any moon or light pollution all but the brightest ones are hard to spot. If you're solely interested in planets, being in a dark place won't really matter so much but there is a lot more to see than just planets.

Edited to answer the second part of your question.... probably I have seen things in the 10" that I haven't seen in the 6" but maybe because I haven't tried. As I hinted, I'm probably not working at the absolute limit of what can be seen with either scope, it's more a case that you get to see a little better detail with the bigger scope and so much depends on seeing conditions and light pollution. You'll find plenty to look at (buy a copy of Turn Left at Orion) with either scope.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Orange Smartie

[Davesellars]

If you have a Bortle 2/3 site to go to - Definitely go with a smaller scope that you can physically get there with...  A 4"-5" refractor at bortle 3 will vastly outperform a 8" reflector at bortle 5/6!

I'd recommend returning the 8" dob and either getting a 6" reflector on an alt/az mount ( Sky-Watcher Explorer 150P & AZ4 Mount Bundle | First Light Optics ) or even something like the Skywatcher 120ST refractor (although this is not that good for planets!)

[cajen2]

As I said, I have both types of scope. If you decide you can't transport the 8" safely or easily, yes, return it and get the 150p. I don't think you'd be disappointed with how good it is. Then maybe later, when you've finished your studies, you could go for something like the 8". That's the order I bought both my scopes, and I never get disappointed with using 'only' the 150p.

[Gonzo0]

56 minutes ago, Orange Smartie said:

Hmm good question. I will check out my entries on here.....

In no particular order:

Split Rigel from Rigel B, Orion nebula, double cluster in Pegasus, Cor Caroli (double star), Leo trio of galaxies, M13 cluster, M94, M63, Andromeda galaxy, loads of other double/multiple stars, M53, M81/82, Saturn, Mars, Jupiter, Moon, Polaris (double star), NGC 4638, M59, M58, M89, M60 in Virgo, ring nebula, owl cluster, Caroline's rose cluster, M1 etc etc.

That's a small selection... 

Galaxies (for example the Leo triplet) are easily visible if it's dark enough, although you'll see them as faint smudges and not much more. I've seen the whirlpool galaxy in my 150p and there isn't much detail to it, but with dark adaptation and a dark night in a dark site, you see more. On a night when there's any moon or light pollution all but the brightest ones are hard to spot. If you're solely interested in planets, being in a dark place won't really matter so much but there is a lot more to see than just planets.

Edited to answer the second part of your question.... probably I have seen things in the 10" that I haven't seen in the 6" but maybe because I haven't tried. As I hinted, I'm probably not working at the absolute limit of what can be seen with either scope, it's more a case that you get to see a little better detail with the bigger scope and so much depends on seeing conditions and light pollution. You'll find plenty to look at (buy a copy of Turn Left at Orion) with either scope.

That is amazing! I don't even know half of what you have mentioned. There's just so much to see and learn I can't wait to get stuck in. 

I already own a copy of turn left at orion, enjoying the read so far! I have been using skymaps when observing and find it's a great tool, but I haven't be able to locate anything other than Jupiter and Saturn thus far due to cloudy skies. 

I think I will go ahead and get the 150p. It just seem's to fit my current lifestyle a bit more.

[Gonzo0]

41 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

As I said, I have both types of scope. If you decide you can't transport the 8" safely or easily, yes, return it and get the 150p. I don't think you'd be disappointed with how good it is. Then maybe later, when you've finished your studies, you could go for something like the 8". That's the order I bought both my scopes, and I never get disappointed with using 'only' the 150p.

Sound advice. Thank you very much. I have an 8mm BST that I will be using with the heritage. I know the shorter focal length will affect how much magnification that will give me compared to the larger 8". Would you recommend a barlow with this scope to use with the already heavy BST? Or just invest in another eyepiece like a 5mm if I wanted more zoom?

[Guest]

I am going to have to agree with Cajen2 on this one.  You drive an oversized Miata, so there isnt a lot of extra room.  These little Heritage scopes are almost tailor made for your situation.  Will you see a difference?  Certainly you will, there is no replacement for aperture, but in your situation i would probably do the same thing.  

[Orange Smartie]

Just note that I'm listing what I can SEE, but the detail will be nothing like the photos you see from Hubble etc. For me, the challenge is to find the object and to tease out some hint of what is going on - but often finding and seeing the object is all I can do*.

Regarding eyepieces, the 10mm supplied is not great, so 8mm BST is a useful starter. I don't use a Barlow, but I have 5, 8, 12, 25mm. Most of my observing is with the 8mm or 25mm. Others with more experience may well recommend a different arrangement. 

 

*at least for galaxies, which mainly appear as fuzzy smears.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Orange Smartie