New to astronomy. Bought an 8" Skywatcher 200p, but having second thoughts...

[Gonzo0]

As the title states, I am a newcomer to this amazing hobby and I went and got myself an 8" Dob, the Skywatcher 200P. Only been able to use it once thus far as I have only had one clear night since I got it. Managed to see Jupiter in all it's glory through the 25mm eyepiece and a BST 8mm which was truly amazing. Instantly hooked. 

However, as great as I think this scope is, I wasn't expecting it to be as big as it is, especially the base. I want to be the type of astronomer who takes his scope with him to dark sites and any chance I get. Luckily for me, I live within 15minutes of one. I own a sports car as my only car, so I knew transportation would be a bit of a challenge with this scope. However, I did not expect the base not to fit in the boot. The only way I can get it to fit is if I take off the bottom part of the base (the circular wooden parts). The tube would go in the passenger seat with the two circular boards behind the passenger seat with the rest of the base in the boot. I feel this would put me off going out to dark sites some nights. Alternatively, I could just place the entire scope on the passenger seat with the base installed with the roof down, but I fear any corner taken at any speed at all would cause it to crash against the passenger side door. 

So this is the only thing that is making me reconsider my options. Thankfully, FLO's return policy is so good, so I can change if I so desire. The scope that I have in mind is the Sky-Watcher Heritage 150p, either the GTi GoTo version or the manual version. Either or looks good to me as it is so compact while still being powerful enough. But, I am open to options. I know for sure that with a more compact scope I will use it in dark skies more, and thus see more? Then again, I'm trading 8 inches of aperture for 6. Hopefully you all can explain how much worse this would be. If it's a marginal decrease in performance I think I will accept the trade-off. 

I should mention that I want to see everything I possibly can through a scope of this kind of size. How much better really is 8 inches compared to 6 inches of aperture?

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this long winded post. I just really want to get things right and thought this was the best place to ask. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Gonzo0

[apaulo]

hi, i have the 200p f5 ota, it comes with a mounting rail so can be set on a tripod. im not sure what length the dob type 200p is i think it is longer. the 200p ota is 1000mm end to end.  i find the 200p a good scope, there is a lot of them around, so that says something for them.  hope this helps. paul.

[Peter Drew]

I would certainly explore all possibilities to retain the 200p, it will have a noticeable advantage optically over a 150p.

Have you considered swapping your sports car for a van?.   Thought not!    🙃

[Gonzo0]

Just now, Peter Drew said:

I would certainly explore all possibilities to retain the 200p, it will have a noticeable advantage optically over a 150p.

Have you considered swapping your sports car for a van?.   Thought not!    🙃

As much as I'd love the extra space, being young, childless and enthusiastic about cars I don't think that is an option 😂

Do you mind elaborating on why the heritage 150p isn't as good? Is it really that noticeable and in what way would it fall short of the bigger 200p? 

[Mandy D]

11 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

As the title states, I am a newcomer to this amazing hobby and I went and got myself an 8" Dob, the Skywatcher 200P. Only been able to use it once thus far as I have only had one clear night since I got it. Managed to see Jupiter in all it's glory through the 25mm eyepiece and a BST 8mm which was truly amazing. Instantly hooked. 

However, as great as I think this scope is, I wasn't expecting it to be as big as it is, especially the base. I want to be the type of astronomer who takes his scope with him to dark sites and any chance I get. Luckily for me, I live within 15minutes of one. I own a sports car as my only car, so I knew transportation would be a bit of a challenge with this scope. However, I did not expect the base not to fit in the boot. The only way I can get it to fit is if I take off the bottom part of the base (the circular wooden parts). The tube would go in the passenger seat with the two circular boards behind the passenger seat with the rest of the base in the boot. I feel this would put me off going out to dark sites some nights. Alternatively, I could just place the entire scope on the passenger seat with the base installed with the roof down, but I fear any corner taken at any speed at all would cause it to crash against the passenger side door. 

So this is the only thing that is making me reconsider my options. Thankfully, FLO's return policy is so good, so I can change if I so desire. The scope that I have in mind is the Sky-Watcher Heritage 150p, either the GTi GoTo version or the manual version. Either or looks good to me as it is so compact while still being powerful enough. But, I am open to options. I know for sure that with a more compact scope I will use it in dark skies more, and thus see more? Then again, I'm trading 8 inches of aperture for 6. Hopefully you all can explain how much worse this would be. If it's a marginal decrease in performance I think I will accept the trade-off. 

I should mention that I want to see everything I possibly can through a scope of this kind of size. How much better really is 8 inches compared to 6 inches of aperture?

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this long winded post. I just really want to get things right and thought this was the best place to ask. 

An 8" aperture gathers 78% more light than a 6"! You are going to lose an awful lot of light by trading down.

The base on a Skywatcher 150P, 200P and 250PX all appear to be the same size. I have both the 200P and the 250PX. Looking at the Heritage range, I'm not sure the base is that much smaller.

Will the 200P tube not lie down on the back seat? Then, you need only put the base on the front passenger seat. Use seat belts on both!

[Gonzo0]

1 minute ago, Mandy D said:

An 8" aperture gathers 78% more light than a 6"! You are going to lose an awful lot of light by trading down.

The base on a Skywatcher 150P, 200P and 250PX all appear to be the same size. I have both the 200P and the 250PX. Looking at the Heritage range, I'm not sure the base is that much smaller.

Will the 200P tube not lie down on the back seat? Then, you need only put the base on the front passenger seat. Use seat belts on both!

It is a sports car, so only 2 seats. 😒

what does 78% more light actually translate into though if I were to look at the two side by side? Will the 8 inch see more things that the 6 inch simply cannot?

The heritage is a collapsable tube, can be carried in one arm. It's a tabletop scope, so ultra portable. Also, has a GoTo function on the GTi version.

[Mandy D]

Just now, Gonzo0 said:

It is a sports car, so only 2 seats. 😒

what does 78% more light actually translate into though if I were to look at the two side by side? Will the 8 inch see more things that the 6 inch simply cannot?

The heritage is a collapsable tube, can be carried in one arm. It's a tabletop scope, so ultra portable. Also, has a GoTo function on the GTi version.

Absolutely! The 8" will see objects that are a lot fainter than you will see in the smaller scope. Everything will appear so much brighter in the 200P: 78% brighter.

[Gonzo0]

1 minute ago, Mandy D said:

Absolutely! The 8" will see objects that are a lot fainter than you will see in the smaller scope. Everything will appear so much brighter in the 200P: 78% brighter.

Jupiter was absolutely gorgeous through it I must say. Breathtaking and a moment I'll never forget. But what good is a scope like that if I can't take it to a dark site as much as I would be able to the 150p virtusoso? Surely I'd see a lot more with a 6 inch in a bortle 3 zone than I would with an 8 inch with a borderline bortle 6 at home?

[Knighty2112]

12 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

Jupiter was absolutely gorgeous through it I must say. Breathtaking and a moment I'll never forget. But what good is a scope like that if I can't take it to a dark site as much as I would be able to the 150p virtusoso? Surely I'd see a lot more with a 6 inch in a bortle 3 zone than I would with an 8 inch with a borderline bortle 6 at home?

In general I use my smaller scopes rather than get my 10” newtonian out. If you think that you will use any scope more at your dark sky site, and need a smaller scope to transport then dropping down to  6” would be more preferable for sure. A scope is only good if you actually use it. If size is an issue that prohibits this then go down in size. There is no perfect scope, hence why a lot of us end up with owning multiple scopes, and no ideal starter scope either, but if you buy a scope then never hardly use it it seems a big waste, so sometimes smaller is better.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Knighty2112

[cajen2]

Perhaps I can help, as I own both types of scope: the Heritage 150p and the equivalent of your 8" dob, a StellaLyra 8".

I completely understand your problems with the larger dob in a small car. I bought an Oplong carrying bag to protect it while transporting it but it's in a van. I use the 150p for exactly this reason: it's small and portable enough to carry in one hand (so it would sit on your passenger seat with its seatbelt quite happily). Optically, it's excellent but of course you are losing some aperture and thus some light-gathering capacity.

Any chance you could buy both scopes? The 8" for the best possible views from home and the 6" for easy transport. That's what I do....

[Gonzo0]

1 minute ago, cajen2 said:

Perhaps I can help, as I own both types of scope: the Heritage 150p and the equivalent of your 8" dob, a StellaLyra 8".

I completely understand your problems with the larger dob in a small car. I bought an Oplong carrying bag to protect it while transporting it but it's in a van. I use the 150p for exactly this reason: it's small and portable enough to carry in one hand (so it would sit on your passenger seat with its seatbelt quite happily). Optically, it's excellent but of course you are losing some aperture and thus some light-gathering capacity.

Any chance you could buy both scopes? The 8" for the best possible views from home and the 6" for easy transport. That's what I do....

I would love to be able to buy both I really would, but I just don't have that kind of money being a student. 
You are in quite a unique position as you have both which I think will be a great help to me. Can I ask, side by side, how they compare? Are planets blurry in the 150p as opposed to the 8inch dob? And what about DSO like nebula, andromeda, messier catalog. Does the heritage perform well in these areas?

[wookie1965]

I had a 200p I flocked the inside fitted Bob knobs. upgraded the primary mirror springs and fitted a lacerta dual focus upgrade. 

I sold it about 3 years ago and to this day I regret it I had the most wonderful views through seeing objects I never thought I would see and stupid me got rid because I thought it was too big. 

[cajen2]

7 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

I would love to be able to buy both I really would, but I just don't have that kind of money being a student. 
You are in quite a unique position as you have both which I think will be a great help to me. Can I ask, side by side, how they compare? Are planets blurry in the 150p as opposed to the 8inch dob? And what about DSO like nebula, andromeda, messier catalog. Does the heritage perform well in these areas?

Blurry? No, not at all. For planetary viewing, the only difference is that you need shorter focal length eyepieces to give a similar magnification to the 8" (or a good Barlow). So both scopes give excellent images. The 8" will give you more at extreme faintness, so a faint nebula/galaxy in the 8" may be hardly visible in the 6". However, the headline stuff like the Orion nebulae, Pleiades, etc are wonderful in both.

Edited September 4, 2022 by cajen2

[Carbon Brush]

Stay with the 200P, it is a good scope. Think how to improve the transport situation.
What car is it?

If you are going out observing, you are going with the expectation of dry weather.
Roof off and tube upright on the passenger seat?
Can you add a boot rack to the car - even temporarily?
That way you can fasten the base to the outside of the boot.
Alternatively leave the boot open - with bungy cords around the base😏

I once carried a 10" newt tube in a sports car (Mazda MX5) on a 60 mile journey.
I once sold a SW250 dob and the buyer had problems fitting it into the car - a big Merc saloon!
With a bit of planning there are ways......

HTH, David.

 

[Gonzo0]

Just now, Carbon Brush said:

Stay with the 200P, it is a good scope. Think how to improve the transport situation.
What car is it?

If you are going out observing, you are going with the expectation of dry weather.
Roof off and tube upright on the passenger seat?
Can you add a boot rack to the car - even temporarily?
That way you can fasten the base to the outside of the boot.
Alternatively leave the boot open - with bungy cords around the base😏

I once carried a 10" newt tube in a sports car (Mazda MX5) on a 60 mile journey.
I once sold a SW250 dob and the buyer had problems fitting it into the car - a big Merc saloon!
With a bit of planning there are ways......

HTH, David.

 

The car I drive is also an MX5, so you understand the struggle!! 😂 Can I ask what model of the mx5 you drove?  And how exactly did you manage to fit a 10 inch newtonian in there lol

[Gonzo0]

22 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Blurry? No, not at all. For planetary viewing, the only difference is that you need shorter focal length eyepieces to give a similar magnification to the 8" (or a good Barlow). So both scopes give excellent images. The 8" will give you more at extreme faintness, so a faint nebula/galaxy in the 8" may be hardly visible in the 6". However, the headline stuff like the Orion nebulae, Pleiades, etc are wonderful in both.

I'd probably go the route of getting barlow to use with my existing eye pieces.  But it doesn't seem as though a 6" is all that bad. It may be worth the trade down in size. I'm still not sure. Will need to think over it. When out and about with your 150p, what do you use to place the scope on?

[cajen2]

4 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

I'd probably go the route of getting barlow to use with my existing eye pieces.  But it doesn't seem as though a 6" is all that bad. It may be worth the trade down in size. I'm still not sure. Will need to think over it. When out and about with your 150p, what do you use to place the scope on?

I have a small wooden three-legged stool (more stable than four legs). Other people use storage boxes, water butt stands, all sorts. It just needs to be 100% stable.

To me, the difference is that the 150p makes an ideal grab & go scope, while the 8" can quite possibly be all the scope that I'd want. I have no chance to store anything larger.

Edited September 4, 2022 by cajen2

[dweller25]

@Gonzo0 

This is an Astronomy forum, so keep the fine scope, get rid of the daft car 😂

Edited September 7, 2022 by dweller25

[Neil H]

What about a MAK I just got a 180 pro it's only 500mm long but thinks it's 1500 , I will never sell my 8 inch even tho the MAK is 7 inch but may be better than a 6 inch 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Gonzo0 said:

Jupiter was absolutely gorgeous through it I must say. Breathtaking and a moment I'll never forget. But what good is a scope like that if I can't take it to a dark site as much as I would be able to the 150p virtusoso? Surely I'd see a lot more with a 6 inch in a bortle 3 zone than I would with an 8 inch with a borderline bortle 6 at home?

There is a saying that the best scope is the one you use most. Whilst I agree with the comments made by others, I also think that the Heritage 150p would be well worth considering if it suits your lifestyle better.

Personally I use my 150p on a tripod mount because it puts the eyepiece at a more convenient height, otherwise you need to put it on a table or sit on the floor.

I’ve had decent views of Mars and split some fairly tight doubles in mine, the optics are pretty good. The main negative is the focuser, but a few wraps of PTFE plumbers tape and it firms up nicely.

A shroud made from hobby foam is another good and simple upgrade.

What can you see? Well this post has a couple of images taken with a smartphone through a Heritage 150p, albeit with a decent zoom eyepiece not the standard one. This was at opposition l ie when the planet is closest, something which is approaching again in December this year. Will it always look like this? No, sometimes the seeing is poor or sometimes a dust storm covers the whole planet loses most of its detail, but when it is good it is great. Note the views were better visually than shown in the images.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/385062-considering-a-sky-watcher-heritage-150p-flextube-dobsonian-for-first-telescopewhat-are-the-views-really-like/?do=findComment&comment=4157648

Some pics of the scope on a tripod mount, something like an AZ5 would do the trick nicely.

[jacobingonzo]

I agree with Stu- in your present situation you are gonna find reasons not to use the 8" dob and god forbid your interest in astronomy may wane- as good as the 8" is I would suggest the handier Heritage- it will be used often and help you foster your skill and interest in astro-hopefully sometime down the road you will be able to afford to have another 8"  and the means to portage it . 

Strongly suggest you read this sticky if you havnt already - it will give you some idea of the abilities of scopes of various arp 

I would get a smaller handier grab n go scope but i fear the wifely wrath. maybe one day lol

 

 

J

Edited September 4, 2022 by jacobingonzo

[tomato]

How about a towing hitch and a small trailer?

[Gonzo0]

13 minutes ago, Stu said:

There is a saying that the best scope is the one you use most. Whilst I agree with the comments made by others, I also think that the Heritage 150p would be well worth considering if it suits your lifestyle better.

Personally I use my 150p on a tripod mount because it puts the eyepiece at a more convenient height, otherwise you need to put it on a table or sit on the floor.

I’ve had decent views of Mars and split some fairly tight doubles in mine, the optics are pretty good. The main negative is the focuser, but a few wraps of PTFE plumbers tape and it firms up nicely.

A shroud made from hobby foam is another good and simple upgrade.

What can you see? Well this post has a couple of images taken with a smartphone through a Heritage 150p, albeit with a decent zoom eyepiece not the standard one. This was at opposition l ie when the planet is closest, something which is approaching again in December this year. Will it always look like this? No, sometimes the seeing is poor or sometimes a dust storm covers the whole planet loses most of its detail, but when it is good it is great. Note the views were better visually than shown in the images.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/385062-considering-a-sky-watcher-heritage-150p-flextube-dobsonian-for-first-telescopewhat-are-the-views-really-like/?do=findComment&comment=4157648

Some pics of the scope on a tripod mount, something like an AZ5 would do the trick nicely.

Thank you for the detailed response. You have a nice setup there! That would be so much more convieniant for me. To be able to just grab and go anywhere I want with my scope with minimal set-up on a crisp clear night is what I envision. My only concern as mentioned above would be the drop in quality from the 8", but it still seems very capable. That view of Mars looks great, even through a smartphone. I can image how much better it would be viewing with the naked eye. I can't wait for opposition in December. Hopefully get a glimpse of the ice caps.

I know I will have to fashion shroud like you said. I wonder if you could point me in the right direction, if you don't mind of course. 

[Gonzo0]

5 minutes ago, tomato said:

How about a towing hitch and a small trailer?

Is a 6" scope really that much worse than an 8" to warrant spending a few hundred to get a trailer just to transport an 8" Dob to dark skies though? Unfortunately I'm not made of money lol

[bingevader]

2 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

Is a 6" scope really that much worse than an 8" to warrant spending a few hundred to get a trailer just to transport an 8" Dob to dark skies though?

Yes!

4 minutes ago, Gonzo0 said:

Unfortunately I'm not made of money lol

But you have an MX5. 🙄

You're stuffed if you are keeping the sports car.

Return the 8" get a 6".