Looking for the best telescope for a beginner

[WilliamAstro]

7 hours ago, Gem85 said:

I have just sent back the Celestron travel scope 70mm as I didn’t find it at all good enough for what I wanted to see. But Can I please ask what’s the difference between a reflector and a refractor? What’s better? 

If you can afford £600 I guess you could get the Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT 😅

Sorry that the travel scope was a bummer, maybe try something like the 

Sky-Watcher Skyliner 200P, or 

Sky-Watcher Skyhawk-1145P 114mm (4.5") f/500 Parabolic Newtonian Reflector Telescope.

Make sure to read the description and specs before ordering.

Edited August 22, 2022 by WilliamAstro

[Elp]

I think the OP needs to be informed of the vital importance of the mount. You can have the best telescope in the world, if it's put onto a run of the mill garbage mount the experience will be awful, especially for the kids.

Personally having bought and sold a few scopes I would recommend an apochromatic refractor to someone seriously wanting to get into and remain in the hobby note my view is slightly biased toward apos because I image more than view, BUT, this is your first scope and to buy a good apo refractor costs money, it's possible on a reduced budget from RRP buying used, it will need a good mount to get the stable views that visual observation needs. Also for visual only, an acromatic refractor will do but read on regarding the mount.

When I say mount, mount means the head (what the scope is directly mounted onto and allows movement of the scope) and tripod. A supplied head and tripod is normally prone to vibration and long dampening times unless you're getting a heavy duty one supplied with the scope so for this reason alone and your original budget I would not recommend a refractor.

An SCT and mak also will not make for good starter scopes because of their relative long focal lengths and limited field of views which will also be frustrating for a beginner, as well as their required cool down times, the need for a good sturdy mount also applies here.

Which leaves the Newtonian design, allows for relative large aperture, limited to no cool down time and relatively cheap. Yes they do require collimation from time to time but it's an easy process with a decently built scope. Yes you also need a decent mount, but if it's a dobsonian (which is a Newtonian scope) on its included altitude-azimuth mount, this should be fairly stable. I have never owned a dobsonian due to space restrictions but I've had newtonians and can vouch for their quality. The OP seems to have decent skies also so can take advantage of the aperture per pound these scopes provide. They would also be easy for a kid to use (and not knock over).

Astrobiscuit did a good video on YT regarding cheap starter scopes which covers a lot of what I've mentioned herein and his challenge is an even tighter budget, definitely worth watching:

 

[Kimboman]

Hi I would consider a pair of 15x70 binoculars on a manfrotto mount these never fail to impress and are always useful for daytime use .

I have a pair of Celestron 15x70 pro on a manfrotto mount all purchased from new under £400 quick and easy to use with great views, if hooked then go for a scope.

My most used set up is a Skywatcher 80ed on a az5 mount

[Astro_Dad]

Here’s a good one too- from @Chris

 

[Second Time Around]

It's clear that there a multiplicity of views on this subject!  For instance, there are 2 schools of thought about buying binoculars before a telescope.  I side with those who say don't spend money on binoculars to begin with but put the funds towards a telescope.  Almost no beginner binoculars will show things like the rings of Saturn - possibly the biggest wow in the heavens and almost sure to get newcomers hooked.  Buying binoculars can come later.  In any event most beginners already own binoculars of some sort or can borrow some.  Of course, if the idea is to use binoculars in the daytime as well the advice might de different.

I think it's also clear now that there's no one best scope for the beginner.  In other words it depends.......

But on what?  Ed Anderson in another similar topic elsewhere posted what I think is the best answer I've seen.  Ed pointed out we need to know quite a bit about the user.  For instance, the advice would probably be different for someone who's got to carry a scope up and down several flights of stairs compared with someone who can just roll a telescope out of their garage.

As Ed said,

"We focus too much on the equipment and not enough on the person.............

The best first telescope is not about the telescope, it is about the person who is going to use the telescope.  If we fail to ask about the user, their experience, their situation, we fail to offer them good advice............

Focus on the user, not the equipment. Once you know something about the person, then you can make intelligent recommendations about equipment."

Edited August 27, 2022 by Second Time Around

[col]

Iv been spoiled with the brightness and extra details of the moon an 8inch dob gives you, but my own thoughts on this are , buy the best you can afford whichever way you go.  Be it binoculars ,refractors or reflectors. 

My first real scope was a Tal 100R from my wife at christmas  more than 20 years ago. This gave me the wow factor for planets  and the moon and is still with me now. Its something Ill never get rid of, not just because it was off my wife, but because its a capable scope. but noticeably dimmer than my 8inch dob now iv been spoiled with the dobs light collecting ability.

I also have a startravel 102 achromatic refractor on an ez 3 mount which is slow motion control with two long bendy rods. Now this very handy and easy to set up which is great. It had an erecting prism with it which i also liked as its easier to find things , and great for terrestrial use too.

Some dont like the false colour fringing you can get with these types of refractors, but its never bothered me. 

But it gives great views of the moon, planets and even deep sky objects  , though iv never really tried for deepsky with it yet due to light pollution of where I live, except for m31 the Andromoda which was a fuzzy blob. but even in larger scopes its going to be a fuzzy blob too, just maybe a little better resolved .

Iv even used it for solar observing with the right solar filter, and saw my first sun spots with it not long ago.

Then we come to my 20x80 Opticron  Oregon binoculars.

These were the biggest surprise on how much you can see with them, on top of a good camera tripod its been the most relaxed obseving iv done. obviously things are very small in the view. but for wide angles and just taking in the view its great.

Again colour fringing is seen sometimes , but it really isnt a problem for me, but some might not get on with it.

These three have all given me some great observing in their own way, but if i had to pick one it would be difficult as they all have their plus and minus side.

They all show me similar things , just slightly bigger, smaller or not as clear.

Even my new 8inch stellalyra dob shows me similar , but slightly bigger and a lot brighter with a bit more detail, so the quest for more detail and size is a never ending one really. I believe its called aperture fever.

Iv always been a go and look astronomer, iv never really tried to learn a great deal about it, but thats what ive enjoyed. More recently Iv started to learn more and have an interest in learning which will enhance my enjoyment of looking up iv no doubt. 

But just going outside and looking up is the simplest and in my opinion ,the most enjoyable aspect, with the help of an app to tell you what might be visible , and any of what iv got in optical things to help, is all thats needed.

After all the years iv spent with my Tal 100R,  and the last couple of years with the binoculars and the startravel 102, It could be any of these  to enjoy looking up if i had to pick one.

My point is it doesnt have to be the very expensive scopes to enjoy what your seeing. Iv never had the chance to look through an apochromat maybe costing three or four times what my scopes cost, but i bet M31 is still mainly a fuzzy blob with maybe a few of the stars resolved a little better.

 

[cloudsweeper]

Mistaken entry, sorry!

Doug.

Edited August 27, 2022 by cloudsweeper

[Tiago Ferreira]

On 22/08/2022 at 21:28, Astro_Dad said:

Given this thread has indeed gone almost full circle and meandered into a broad based discussion about ‘scope choice philosophy and beyond - I’ll risk criticism of going off beam again by reposting this that came up elsewhere  on SGL. Food for thought! (I know off budget but gives a flavour of a good six inch aperture option). 
Thanks @Tiago Ferreira

I can absolutely relate to @Stu1smartcookie and others in terms of mistake making - it’s all part of the “fun” and learning for some  - but one must avoid analysis paralysis and do something… this thread may perpetuate ad infinitum - let us know your current thinking @Gem85 - note that the 70mm travelscope option didn’t work out for you - maybe something in the 4-6 inch aperture class like some of the suggested instruments on this thread would be more in line with what you think you need? If still not sure then perhaps taking a pause  and learning the sky with a pair of bins and a planisphere is not such a bad idea?

Very kind from you @Astro_Dad

I just finished right now to watch the Helix nebula with it. Low in the sky, 26º altitude.

Just 15 minutes of 10 second exposures with the ZWO 294MC

 

[Scoobyroo]

@Tiago Ferreira Didn't expect to see your name pop up here!  Loving your 150p Virtuoso content at the moment... it helped in pushing me over the edge to pick one up last week.  Whilst I'm not looking to do Astrophotography myself at the moment, knowing what the scope has the potential to do in this area was a real eye opener!

Anyway, back on topic...  I note that the OP has really only jumped in a few times on this thread with more info on their specific use case and I have to admit to being pretty new to all this myself, but other than the 'children' aspect, your use-case doesn't seem too dissimilar from mine.   I've seen a few recommendations here for the Sky-Watcher Heritage 150p (perhaps the Virtuoso GTI version if but allows?). 

Firstly, I'm afraid I don't know enough about telescopes to aid the debate around the pros and cons of each, however I can share my personal experience/thoughts.   I picked up the GTI version of the scope last week for £379 from FLO after much research and help here at SGL and it really exceeded my expectations in many areas... and if Go-To isn't a 'must have' for you, you can pick up it's 'non-GTI' baby brother (without Go-To) for around £249 (https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-heritage-150p-flextube-dobsonian-telescope.html).  As you have kids and if you think you'd like to get them involved (which I believe is the plan), I would personally recommend you invest the extra for the Virtuoso GTI's 'Go-To' feature.

Whilst finding objects is a bit of an art (which the GTI will automatically do for you), it is actually probably a great family bonding activity.  Grab a star-map, spot some recognisable objects in the sky and hop your way around.  However, tracking the object once you've found it (which the GTI will also do) is a whole new art!... I was amazed at how quickly these suckers move! 😆  In some scopes (this one also), everything is upside down and back to front... i.e. when something disappears off to the left of your view, you have to slew (move the scope) to the right (mirrors eh! 🤪). 

To be fair, you do get used to is fairly quickly, but I can only imagine that this 'juggling' might be a step too far for some of the younger ones... risking them losing interest.  Another issue with manually slewing, is that to do so you are obviously touching the scope to move it... this introduces vibration for a few seconds, during which time the object you're looking at is of course bouncing all over the viewfinder (eyepiece).  So you end up playing this cat and mouse game of moving the scope to where you expect the object to be in a few seconds, so that by the time the scope has settled, you can enjoy a nice stable view (well, at least until it whisks off out of view again a few seconds later!).

For the avoidance of doubt, the Heritage 150p's 'Dobsonian' mount is very stable (likely more than other types, especially at this price range)... but some vibrations pretty much are unavoidable when manually slewing.  The 'Go-To feature will not only track what you are looking at, it will do so without introducing any vibrations.. or minimal at most (in my experience at least).  Hence why I'd recommend in your use case, you might want to consider the GTI.

Other considerations worth highlighting for your use case are that the Heritage 150P's are fairly light (the 'non-GTI' especially), very compact for ease of storage (comparatively) and you can literally pick it, place it down and be looking at the night sky in 5 minutes 🤩

I did write up my (rather lengthy, sorry) thoughts in a separate thread on the scope and accessories I purchased , if these are of any use?  Here's the link.... feel free to reach out if you want any more info:

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Scoobyroo
Added ref to size / weight

[dweller25]

On 19/08/2022 at 08:54, SthBohemia said:

If either of the 2 above, both @Rallemikken and @Astro_Dad bothered to read previous posts within this thread they would both, with some hope, come to the conclusion that their contributions are irrelevant as 'dobbies' do not fit within the parameters or requirements of @Gem85 ! 🙂 

I don’t know which charm school you went to but you really should sue them 🙂

Edited August 30, 2022 by dweller25