Are there any issues with this set up?

[Andy56]

Hi,

 

I've been using a 600D with  a WO ZS61ed and an Optolong L-extreme sitting on an HEQ5.

Any one in Southern ULK will know that the night temps are high at the moment and with the Optolong L-Extreme exposure times are long and the sensor temperature is in the low 30's giving loads of noise.

So I've  decided to get a cooled astro camera and after much reading I feel I will go for the ZWO ASI071MC-Pro. The 600D is an aps sensor the same as the 071 and the image coverage is what I'm looking for ie NGC7000, M42 Horse Head area.

Now, as I understand all cameras have their quirks and this one is no different but is there any fundamental reason why this combination is not good?

Is there a better camera for the DSO's I'm after?

 

Kind regards

Andy

 

 

[newbie alert]

Thought the 71 was discontinued  but a quick search say no it's still current... £1489.. 

If I were looking I'd put abit more towards it and buy a 571 sensor, 16 bit as opposed to the 14 of the 071.. still APS-C size , abit more up to date, smaller pixels, no ampglow as it's put.. 

[The Lazy Astronomer]

Same here, if you're looking for a OSC APS-C, I'd suggest the 2600 over the 071

[Andy56]

Hi,

Thanks for you comments.

The cost of the 2600 is to high for me. I was pushing it at the 071.

I started at the 294 or 533 and kept looking and the cost went up.

The 533 is a bit small and only covers 1/2 NGC7000 but all of the HH nebula and M42 and has zero amp glow. The 294 covers most  of NGC7000 but is older(?) and doesn't have zero amp glow.

I also read loads of stuff about pixels sizes and used the "CCD Suitability Calculator" but none of the combinations ended up in the green.

So from you comments there is no fundamental reason there would incompatibility just a choice with trades offs each way.

Kind regards

Andy

 

[Xsubmariner]

Hi Andy,

I had an 071 pro and it is a nice camera. I now have a selection of colour and mono 571 and 455 based cameras are they are great cameras ( from my experience). I would recommend you pushing for a 571 based camera, or consider getting a used one. They have started to turn up on the used forums as some 2600c/268c owners switch to mono. My camera’s are split between ZWO and QHY and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy either brand.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Xsubmariner
Correction

[Len1257]

The best camera is the one that you can afford. I have a 2600MC and a 071MC. The pixel size is slightly larger on the 071 and the file sizes smaller. The small amount of amp-glow is easily removed by calibration frames. Just search on Astrobin for images taken with an 071. With your ZS61 it will be slightly undersampled and the 2600 would be slightly better in that respect. Depending on your seeing probably not worth worying about.

Having said all that, the annual ZWO sale is on and the price gap is currently down to £400 between the 071 and 2600.

[Andy56]

Hi, and thanks for you comments.

I've decided that the 294 has had a number of issues with some user so so that's off the list. I don't want to be one of the unlucky ones and have tons of issues.

The 2600, although great, is just to expensive.

At the moment the 533 is top of the list it similar spec to the 2600 just smaller and 14-bit. The images on astrobin are good with the ZS61 . The size is smaller than APS-C but covers most of what I want and I could use mosaics.

Also it about £1000 cheaper and I could buy a another scope (or two) with the difference.

I think Len1257's comment "The best camera is the one that you can afford" tipped me and that's realistically the 533.

Cheers

Andy

[mackiedlm]

You mentioned the ASI 071 in your first post. Thats currently showing at FLO for£1489.

Perhaps you should consider the Altair astro 26C which is is the Altair version with the 571 sensor (same sensor as ASI2600) Currently priced at £1450

The IMX571 sensor really is a leap forward from other sensors.

[ONIKKINEN]

This is basically the same camera as the 2600MC, and the Altair but much cheaper: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p13286_Omegon-Camera-veTEC-571-C-Color-cooled--Sensor-D-28-3-mm.html

By the way the altair one and this Omegon one are both made by the same manufacturer, ToupTek so differences are minor.

[The Lazy Astronomer]

On 11/08/2022 at 07:41, Andy56 said:

I also read loads of stuff about pixels sizes and used the "CCD Suitability Calculator" but none of the combinations ended up in the green.

Don't take that calculator as gospel, with typical UK seeing conditions and a decent-ish mount, you'll likey be correctly sampling with any of the cameras mentioned at focal length of around 350 - 400mm.

[mackiedlm]

3 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

This is basically the same camera as the 2600MC, and the Altair but much cheaper: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p13286_Omegon-Camera-veTEC-571-C-Color-cooled--Sensor-D-28-3-mm.html

By the way the altair one and this Omegon one are both made by the same manufacturer, ToupTek so differences are minor.

Do you know if the omegon 571 cameras, c and m, have a heated window like the ZWO AN Altair ones. I've been looking at the specs for the omegon and see no reference to heated window. Out here in West of ireland its a must. 

[ONIKKINEN]

45 minutes ago, mackiedlm said:

Do you know if the omegon 571 cameras, c and m, have a heated window like the ZWO AN Altair ones. I've been looking at the specs for the omegon and see no reference to heated window. Out here in West of ireland its a must. 

I found an instruction manual for the camera on the omegon.eu page: https://nimax-img.de/Produktdownloads/61031_11_Anleitung_veLOX_veTEC_GUIDE.pdf

From the pdf:

Quote

TEC cooling: A simple fan wouldn’t be able to cool the camera below ambient temperature. Therefore, all veTEC
cameras have a powerful thermoelectric cooling element installed. It sits right behind the sensor and can cool
down to 40°C below the ambient temperature. While this keeps the sensor very cool and reduces noise, it
produces a lot of waste heat (the same way the back of a fridge gets very warm). This heat is conducted to the
cooling fins in the middle of the camera body. A small fan constantly blows outside air through the cooling fins,
making sure the camera doesn’t overheat. Do not cover the ventilation slits on the side and back of the camera
during operation, otherwise the airflow is disrupted. In addition to cooling the sensor, the protective window of
the sensor chamber is slightly heated. This prevents dew from forming on the outside of the window

But there is a slight issue with that. The Rising Cam model, which is also made by ToupTek (as is the omegon, altair, TS, perhaps even others) has a weak heater on the sensor window that in extreme humidity and cooler power usage will be insufficient to prevent dewing of the sensor window. My own Rising Cam has not suffered from this, but generally i dont cool down more than a few degrees below ambient, if at all (if  the ambient is already -15, i dont bother).

If i recall correctly @tomato had the dewing sensor window issue on his Rising Cam and fitted a ZWO camera heater: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-anti-dew-heater-strip-for-asi-cooled-cameras.html To get rid of the issue. I have one as well just as a precaution, but so far have not needed to use it.

Even if they are all made by ToupTek, it is of course possible that some models have a beefier sensor window heater than others so the Omegon one could be Ireland proof where as the Rising Cam is not. But the ziptied heater band is not exactly a bank breaking addition so probably not something that needs worrying about.

[tomato]

Yes, no more sensor window fogging with the ZWO heater installed. Having said that I have backed off on the cooling set pt compared to how I used to run the CCD cameras, -10 C cf -20 C for the older technology.

[gorann]

I am now running several scopes in a night so I have a bunch of cameras. I had an ASI071 and when the ASI2600MC came out I bought one. I found it more sensitive and less noisy, so I soon sold the 071. A main issue I had with the 071 was dew/frost on the sensor itself. I repeatedly had to take it apart to dry the desiccant pucks inside, which inevitably added some dust to the sensor. I never had any such dew/frost issues with the three ASI2600MC I now have. A month ago I bought the Omegon variant of the IMX571 (discussed above) from astroshop.de. I am now waiting for astrodarkness to come back so I can test it but I have no worries since there are several examples of images from the Omegon camera on Astrobin and I contacted two of the imagers who both said they were very happy with it.

So I would chose the Omegon 571 any day over the ASI071, and it is even cheaper, at least on Astroshop: https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-cameras/omegon-camera-vetec-571-c-color/p,67320

[jacko61]

On 14/08/2022 at 21:49, Andy56 said:

At the moment the 533 is top of the list it similar spec to the 2600 just smaller and 14-bit. The images on astrobin are good with the ZS61 . The size is smaller than APS-C but covers most of what I want and I could use mosaics.

Here's something to consider - I bought the 533 a year ago after doing loads of research. It didn't take long to decide the square sensor was more of a limitation than I'd though but I put up with it, cutting off important bits of my images e.g. the fish head nebula.  I've since bought a 2600 and I'm much happier with the field of view.

Graeme

[Clarkey]

Another option is the RisingCam IMX571. Yes it is from China and I guess this gives an element of risk. However, there are lots of users who seem very happy. It is the same camera but < £1100 with duties. I have one and I am waiting for some decent darkness to try it out.

[tompato]

Just to play devil's advocate but summer is (likely) coming to an end soon and the darker skies and cooler temps will be with us. Might be worth sticking with the 600d and then investing in something after Winter for the warmer months ahead, there might be new models out then, and maybe bargains to be had on used models.

Is your 600d modified? What ISO are you shooting at? I still get pretty good results in summer with mine, even 60 mins of data on Veil I was pretty happy with in the middle of June.

[edarter]

2 hours ago, tompato said:

Just to play devil's advocate but summer is (likely) coming to an end soon and the darker skies and cooler temps will be with us. Might be worth sticking with the 600d and then investing in something after Winter for the warmer months ahead, there might be new models out then, and maybe bargains to be had on used models.

Is your 600d modified? What ISO are you shooting at? I still get pretty good results in summer with mine, even 60 mins of data on Veil I was pretty happy with in the middle of June.

This is pretty much where I am! Have decided to stick with my 600D (modified) for now as all the alternatives seem to have one drawback or another!
533 = Too small FOV with my 130PDS
294MC Pro = Calibration issues with narrow band filters (though may be resolved using gain 200 or higher)
2600 = Out of my price range
Other 571 based cameras = More of a risk, initial feedback seems good but what will they be like after a year or two?

Its a minefield! Hoping for a silver bullet of a new release from someone which has zero amp glow and a large enough FOV with my setup, but can't see anything on the horizon at the moment.

Ed

[tompato]

Yeah, I'm in much the same boat Ed. I'm hoping some competition from Player one cameras might help with the price of APS-C size cameras.

They are supposed to be launching some new cooler cameras this autumn, although I was kinda hoping they would launch a non-cooled APS-C size camera with these new zero amp flow sensors.

https://player-one-astronomy.com/cooled-camera/

[iantaylor2uk]

I have the 071 camera and have not had too many problems with dew or frosting up, although that may be because I only cool to 0 or -5 C, and I keep the dew heater switched on. If you can pick up a 2nd hand one cheaply it would be a good buy. If I had to buy a new camera it would be the 533 or 2600.