ZWO/Player One IMX 585 Sensor Image Showcase

[MichaelBibby]

On a slightly different note, here is a test shot (avi, rgb) I took on a terrestrial target while familiarizing myself with Sharpcap (using region of interest @ 1920x1080, probably slightly out of focus).

And a question: on the Player One 585 camera, which binning method is 'better': averaging or sum? From what I understand it is probably average (summing, as I understand it, may lead to clipping). Are there situations where you might choose one over another?

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by MichaelBibby

[PeterC65]

4 hours ago, MichaelBibby said:

Hi Peter, you mentioned seeing horizontal banding at the top of the image extending about 5% of the way down when ROI or binning is enabled, I've been doing some test shots on terrestrial objects (clouds as far as the eye can see on the East coast of Australia, extending far into the future...) and noticed the same thing. Did you hear back from Starfield Optics about that (and whether 3x3 binning is supported)?

Thanks, Michael.
 

Starfield said that the banding might be a USB issue (cable, port, hub). Personally, I think that's very unlikely, but I was using the camera with a UBS2.0 cable so that may be the cause. I will check sometime with USB3.0 but that means having the laptop close to the scope and isn't a practical solution for me. While the banding is annoying it can easily be ignored for EEVA and cropped out for AP. Do you see the banding with USB3.0?

I haven't heard back from Starfield about the 3x3 binning but will chase them about it as it's a bigger issue (makes 3x3 binning unusable).

[MichaelBibby]

6 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

Starfield said that the banding might be a USB issue (cable, port, hub). Personally, I think that's very unlikely, but I was using the camera with a UBS2.0 cable so that may be the cause. I will check sometime with USB3.0 but that means having the laptop close to the scope and isn't a practical solution for me. While the banding is annoying it can easily be ignored for EEVA and cropped out for AP. Do you see the banding with USB3.0?

I haven't heard back from Starfield about the 3x3 binning but will chase them about it as it's a bigger issue (makes 3x3 binning unusable).

Yes, I was using it with the supplied cable on a usb 3 port. I'll do some more experimenting and see if I can isolate the fault conditions further (but as you said, its not something I'm particularly worried about, more interested in 3x3 binning working as expected).

[PeterC65]

7 minutes ago, MichaelBibby said:

Yes, I was using it with the supplied cable on a usb 3 port. I'll do some more experimenting and see if I can isolate the fault conditions further (but as you said, its not something I'm particularly worried about, more interested in 3x3 binning working as expected).

Are you seeing the RGB artifact issue when using 3x3 binning?

I also tried average and sum binning and concluded that average was the better method. I believe that the averaging process may improve the signal to noise ratio.

I need to do some daylight testing today and will try binning / ROI with the supplied USB3.0 cable.

 

[MichaelBibby]

3 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

Are you seeing the RGB artifact issue when using 3x3 binning?

I also tried average and sum binning and concluded that average was the better method. I believe that the averaging process may improve the signal to noise ratio.

I need to do some daylight testing today and will try binning / ROI with the supplied USB3.0 cable.

 

I just had a look over my avi rgb test shots and have found that the horizontal banding at the top of the image is actually worse with no binning, slightly better with binning 2x2 and even better with 3x3 (to the point of being barely noticeable).

And no, i can't see any artifacts at all when binning at 3x3, image looks fine. Maybe its a codec issue? Try .ser format?  (Sorry, can't be of much help, I'm new to all this, but if you would like me to test anything else, just let me know).

*****EDIT: I noticed that the banding was absent when I was filming during daylight, so maybe its correlated to gain? My night shots were filmed with a gain of about 400-450 from memory.

Here is an example of a day time image (I put the AVI through AutoStakkert):

Edited October 19, 2022 by MichaelBibby

[PeterC65]

3 hours ago, MichaelBibby said:

*****EDIT: I noticed that the banding was absent when I was filming during daylight, so maybe its correlated to gain? My night shots were filmed with a gain of about 400-450 from memory.

I've just been testing my camera in daylight and I cannot see any banding with ROI or binning so it must be a gain induced thing. 3x3 binning also works fine for me in daylight. Generally speaking I find that daylight testing can only be very limited, just checking for focus positions and the like.

[PeterC65]

@MichaelBibby Some more things from daylight testing ...

Sum binning may be better as it collects more light per (bigger) pixel and so allows for shorter exposures as the binning increases, 2x2 captures 4 times the light, 3x3 captures 9 times the light, 4x4 captures 16 times the light. My understanding is the binning is useful for setting the pixel size to better match the focal length of the scope, and to reduce exposure time by making each pixel more light sensitive.

Interestingly, binning doesn't operate as expecting when SharpCap is set to hardware binning (exposure doesn't reduce with increased binning). I have switched to software binning and that seems to behave as expected and so is what I will use during my next night time session. Doing that may fix the banding and artifact issues too.

 

[PeterC65]

After some further testing it seems that hardware binning on the Uranus-C camera is always averaging, so if you want to use sum binning then you need to use software binning in SharpCap. There seems to be no benefit to using hardware binning and sum binning seems more useful since it allows the larger effective pixel size to collect more light.

 

[PeterC65]

Some images of M31 and M45 taken with live stacking last night using the 72mm APO and Uranus-C camera. This was also first light for the StellaMira x0.6 Reducer / Field Flattener which worked really well.

[CraigT82]

QHY now getting in on the 585 game…

They’re also bringing out the QHY5iii200m which is highly sensitive in the UV and NIR (will be a great Venus imaging camera).

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by CraigT82

[Pixies]

Does the ASI585MC camera need an IR cut filter?

[CraigT82]

29 minutes ago, Pixies said:

Does the ASI585MC camera need an IR cut filter?

Depends on what you’re using it for, but for general deep sky work I would use a UV/IR cut (I.e any luminance filter).

[Pixies]

12 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

Depends on what you’re using it for, but for general deep sky work I would use a UV/IR cut (I.e any luminance filter).

Thanks. just checked the Baader Semi-APO and it filters UV/IR, so that'll do with my achromatic refractor.

[Chris]

On 21/10/2022 at 12:02, PeterC65 said:

Some images of M31 and M45 taken with live stacking last night using the 72mm APO and Uranus-C camera. This was also first light for the StellaMira x0.6 Reducer / Field Flattener which worked really well.

Nice, the ED72 + 0.6 and IMX585mc is looking promising for EAA which is good to know. I'm sometimes asked if the 0.6x is suitable for the ED72 and I've basically said I can't imagine it giving good corner stars with an APS-C sensor but should be ok with small sensors. You can see the corner stars starting to stretch right in the corners in your images and peoples tolerance to this varies but I'd be happy with that considering you get to image at f/3.5 and fit in large targets like M31! : )

[PeterC65]

41 minutes ago, Chris said:

Nice, the ED72 + 0.6 and IMX585mc is looking promising for EAA which is good to know. I'm sometimes asked if the 0.6x is suitable for the ED72 and I've basically said I can't imagine it giving good corner stars with an APS-C sensor but should be ok with small sensors. You can see the corner stars starting to stretch right in the corners in your images and peoples tolerance to this varies but I'd be happy with that considering you get to image at f/3.5 and fit in large targets like M31! : )

The StellaMira x0.6 Reducer calls for 55mm of back focus but when I set it to that I couldn't quite achieve focus with the Photoline 72 (it just needed another 1mm of inwards travel). After some experimenting, I set the back focus to 53mm and that allowed the scope to focus at 4mm. So the edge star distortion may be down to me using a slightly incorrect back focus. I will try 54mm sometime and see if I can still achieve focus.

I should also mention that part of the back focus distance is provided by a filter wheel with 1.25" filters and that doesn't seem to be causing any vignetting.

Interesting, so far I've not been able to achieve focus with a DSLR and the Photoline 72 / StellaMira x0.6 Reducer.

[MichaelBibby]

Here is my first attempt at imaging a galaxy: the Sculptor galaxy. I don't have any experience in Astro and am still learning all the programs. As you can see, I'm still sorting out some collimation problems (and possibly astigmatism from pinched optics). This is only about 15 minutes of data, 15 second exposures at a gain of 400. Bin 2 (hardware), sum (yet to experiment with software and hardware binning, exposure times, gain, etc.,.). 8" F5 Newt on Heq5-Pro with Uranus-C. A little bit of post processing in Siril.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by MichaelBibby

[MichaelBibby]

Here is a screen shot of a live-stacking session with the (out of focus!) Lagoon nebula. You can see the horizontal banding at the top of the image (not an artifact of stacking). The banding is worse in native resolution but barely noticeable at binning  3 x 3. This image was taken in bin 2 x 2, I think about 5minutes worth of data, 15 second exposures at a gain of about 400. No post processing.

[MichaelBibby]

IMPORTANT UPDATE ON HORIZONTAL BANDING ISSUE:

Just got a message from player one and they are RECALLING camera's with the horizontal banding problem. Apparently this fault only effects a certain batch manufactured before 26th of October. In the email they said that they will pay shipping costs for a replacement.

@PeterC65

Edited October 27, 2022 by MichaelBibby

[PeterC65]

36 minutes ago, MichaelBibby said:

IMPORTANT UPDATE ON HORIZONTAL BANDING ISSUE:

Just got a message from player one and they are RECALLING camera's with the horizontal banding problem. Apparently this fault only effects a certain batch manufactured before 26th of October. In the email they said that they will pay shipping costs for a replacement.

@PeterC65

Thanks for letting me know. I have contacted Starfield Optics about this. I see exactly the same problem as you show in the image you posted above.

[PeterC65]

2 hours ago, MichaelBibby said:

IMPORTANT UPDATE ON HORIZONTAL BANDING ISSUE:

Just got a message from player one and they are RECALLING camera's with the horizontal banding problem. Apparently this fault only effects a certain batch manufactured before 26th of October. In the email they said that they will pay shipping costs for a replacement.

@PeterC65

I see that Player One have announced the recall on their website (here). Not great news, but at least they are dealing with it quickly.

[MichaelBibby]

Yes, this kind of proactive customer support is very encouraging.

[doublevodka]

Svbony also appears to have come up with their own version of this with the 585 sensor - https://www.svbony.com/svbony-sv705c-usb3-0-color-planetary-camera-imx585-eaa/

[PeterC65]

6 minutes ago, doublevodka said:

Svbony also appears to have come up with their own version of this with the 585 sensor - https://www.svbony.com/svbony-sv705c-usb3-0-color-planetary-camera-imx585-eaa/

Interestingly the Svbony camera's LCG / HCG switching point is at 250, like the ZWO camera.

[Ratlet]

1 hour ago, PeterC65 said:

Interestingly the Svbony camera's LCG / HCG switching point is at 250, like the ZWO camera.

 

2 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I see that Player One have announced the recall on their website (here). Not great news, but at least they are dealing with it quickly.

Looks like they're also releasing their own imx533 sensor camera too

[HEN]

HI all, i just got ZWOASI585 from FLO collected yesterday , looking forward to play at the weekends,

anyway just to let you know that i notices the Svbony got 128mb mem and zwo got 256 mem ?  all so the QHY5III585C got 512 mb ,  intresting and strange coz i thought all cams and chips are the same from sony ?

And sorry for poor english ,deaf,

Hen.

Edited October 30, 2022 by HEN