ZWO/Player One IMX 585 Sensor Image Showcase

[Magnum]

16 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Yeah no idea what thats about buy it directly its not worth £550 sensor is not that big as to justify that price point. 

Adam

If anyone on here has bought direct how long did delivery take and did they have to pay Duty & VAT on arival?

I presume that would add 22.5%?

Lee

[Ratlet]

I'd wait to see what starfield say.  It looks awfully like someone has messed up the pricing and put the satru notice on the other sensor.

Just don't get the Saturn-C.  I want that lol.

[Magnum]

10 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I'd wait to see what starfield say.  It looks awfully like someone has messed up the pricing and put the satru notice on the other sensor.

Just don't get the Saturn-C.  I want that lol.

They have replied saying they will check the prices.

it’s the Uranus C that seems wrong price to me, as it should be cheaper than the Saturn.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Magnum

[Richard Wesson]

7 hours ago, Magnum said:

If anyone on here has bought direct how long did delivery take and did they have to pay Duty & VAT on arival?

I presume that would add 22.5%?

Lee

The camera is on at $399 on the Player one website which equates to around £345. Even with 22.5% that would only bring it to around £422.

[Magnum]

40 minutes ago, Richard Wesson said:

The camera is on at $399 on the Player one website which equates to around £345. Even with 22.5% that would only bring it to around £422.

They just got back to me saying i was correct and they have now gone in and recalculated everywhere. But i just had a look and both cams are still showing the same price lol.

[CraigT82]

On 31/08/2022 at 01:48, Adam J said:

and here is the answer,

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/779874-imx585-chip-coming/page-2

Looks like Playerone modified the HGC read mode of the sensor so that it kicks in at a alower gain and ZWO have not. The sharp cap results above effectively confirm this.

Not sure they can modify that in drivers or not.....

On that basis I know which one I would buy.

Edit: for the noobs its the player one.

Adam

 

Sorry only just saw your posts, not sure how I missed them must be getting senile in my old age.

Thats an interesting thread, it seems that the early 585 cameras ZWO produced had the HGC kicking in earlier but then the changed it to 252 so that would explain the charts on FLOs listing. 

Also interesting is the post about US dealers getting pressure from a certain camera manufacture not to carry player one cameras, could explain why no one carries them here but starfield. I know business is business but this isn’t a good look for this other camera manufacturer.

[Ratlet]

9 hours ago, Magnum said:

They just got back to me saying i was correct and they have now gone in and recalculated everywhere. But i just had a look and both cams are still showing the same price lol.

Just checked the prices.  Looks like they've increased them all 🤣.  The Saturn is looking a bit less alluring now.

[Richard Wesson]

29 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

Just checked the prices.  Looks like they've increased them all 🤣.  The Saturn is looking a bit less alluring now.

I noticed this too. Looks purchase from player one directly still a more cost effective option even if VAT and duty taken into account. Starfield seem to have shot themselves in the foot here.

[Magnum]

1 hour ago, CraigT82 said:

Sorry only just saw your posts, not sure how I missed them must be getting senile in my old age.

Thats an interesting thread, it seems that the early 585 cameras ZWO produced had the HGC kicking in earlier but then the changed it to 252 so that would explain the charts on FLOs listing. 

Also interesting is the post about US dealers getting pressure from a certain camera manufacture not to carry player one cameras, could explain why no one carries them here but starfield. I know business is business but this isn’t a good look for this other camera manufacturer.

So do you think the ZWO models kicking in at 252 are best a avoided? Or have they done that for a reason that we aren’t aware of yet?

Lee

[CraigT82]

Well I guess it depends on what you’ll be using it for. 

If planetary/lunar/solar the higher read noise of the ASI compared to the P1 won’t matter much as with the strong signals from those targets the shot noise far outweighs the read noise (except perhaps on Uranus or Neptune).

Personally I’m looking at doing DSO lucky imaging - stacking thousands of 0.5s to 1s subs - and so the read noise is critical. I would choose the P1 camera for that over the ASI. 
 

Not sure as to the why. They must have a reason for changing the HGC point but I don’t know what it is.  

 

[Mandy D]

6 hours ago, Magnum said:

So do you think the ZWO models kicking in at 252 are best a avoided? Or have they done that for a reason that we aren’t aware of yet?

Lee

You could ask ZWO on Facebook in their very active group.

[Magnum]

so has anyone bought a player one camera direct, and if so did they get stung for duty and vat on arrival?

[PeterC65]

Has anyone bought Player One cameras from Starfield Optics? It looks like they are based in Canada and so while they may be setup to sell to the UK (taking care of the tax) their service may be no different from Player One direct.

[Magnum]

39 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

Has anyone bought Player One cameras from Starfield Optics? It looks like they are based in Canada and so while they may be setup to sell to the UK (taking care of the tax) their service may be no different from Player One direct.

I was going to but the prices are much more than it would be to [ay VAT and duty when buying direct. I think they are partnered with company in Canada so you pay in uk then they get Canada to send them over. not really a uk dealer in my mind as they dont keep stock. just seems pointless.

Lee

[PeterC65]

3 hours ago, Magnum said:

I was going to but the prices are much more than it would be to [ay VAT and duty when buying direct. I think they are partnered with company in Canada so you pay in uk then they get Canada to send them over. not really a uk dealer in my mind as they dont keep stock. just seems pointless.

Lee

That's what I was thinking, but looking into it I'd need to add 20% VAT, 2.5% import duty, plus my credit card will add a 2.95% foreign transaction charge. Once all of that is included the price for the Uranus-C is £442 direct from Player One USA compared with £480 from Starfield Optics. The figures for the Saturn-C SQR are £664 direct compared with £685.

Having found the Uranus-C while looking at the ASI585MC, I'm now quite tempted by the Saturn-C SQR.

[Magnum]

6 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

That's what I was thinking, but looking into it I'd need to add 20% VAT, 2.5% import duty, plus my credit card will add a 2.95% foreign transaction charge. Once all of that is included the price for the Uranus-C is £442 direct from Player One USA compared with £480 from Starfield Optics. The figures for the Saturn-C SQR are £664 direct compared with £685.

Having found the Uranus-C while looking at the ASI585MC, I'm now quite tempted by the Saturn-C SQR.

I have a revolut card so dont pay exchange charges for any currency so I get a figure of £426 for the Uranus , but thats only if we got charged, I dont think thats certain, so could be only £347. my friend buys camera lenses direct and usually doesn't get charged. depends what they put on the box I think.

its getting quite expesve for a planetary camera, makes the zwo one look cheap when it was on sale last week for £359 though now back to 399 is still cheaper.

Lee

Edited September 8, 2022 by Magnum

[PeterC65]

13 minutes ago, Magnum said:

Iits getting quite expesve for a planetary camera, makes the zwo one look cheap when it was on sale last week for £359 though now back to 399 is still cheaper.

The ZWO version is less expensive and probably better supported in the UK, but the spec for the Player One version is better and the recent change of spec made by ZWO is concerning I think.

Does anyone have more information about why ZWO changed the HCG switching point for the ASI585MC?

[Magnum]

53 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

The ZWO version is less expensive and probably better supported in the UK, but the spec for the Player One version is better and the recent change of spec made by ZWO is concerning I think.

Does anyone have more information about why ZWO changed the HCG switching point for the ASI585MC?

Yes that’s how I see it, 

I’ve asked on a thread but no real explanation 

[Dark Raven]

56 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

Does anyone have more information about why ZWO changed the HCG switching point for the ASI585MC?

I was looking at zwo version from the announcement because it matches my RedCad with pixel pitch and don't remember they changed the specifications. Could it be the FLO posted the wrong camera soecs?

[Magnum]

1 minute ago, Dark Raven said:

I was looking at zwo version from the announcement because it matches my RedCad with pixel pitch and don't remember they changed the specifications. Could it be the FLO posted the wrong camera soecs?

No nothing to do with FLO, ZWO posted specs then later changed them but only recently sent the new specs out.

 

[Dark Raven]

Interesting. Could it be product range differentiation? Lower specs for a lower price?

[PeterC65]

5 minutes ago, Dark Raven said:

Interesting. Could it be product range differentiation? Lower specs for a lower price?

I'm pretty sure that ZWO have changed the spec for the ASI585MC camera sometime since its launch, and that the distributors are only now catching up. Nobody seems to know why but I'm pretty sure it must be for a technical reason. I have asked ZWO the question.

For me the spec change is a big deal as it moves the HCG switching point from 150 to 252 which means that the low read noise I need for EEVA moves to a lower full well and dynamic range. The Uranus-C HCG switching point is at 180 and this gives significantly better full well and dynamic range.

In general the Uranus-C has lower read noise than the ASI585MC even though both use the same sensor. Looking at the Saturn-C, and comparing it with the ASI533MC, it looks like Player One use clever designs that could explain the difference in performance between cameras using the same sensor. They manage to get a 73000e full well from the IMX533 for example while everyone else only gets 50000e.

[Chris]

Evening folks,  we've updated the ASI 585 product page at FLO to reflect most recent figures published by ZWO. 

In short the well depth has increased from 40000e to 47000e and HCG switching has changed from 150 to 252:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-585mc-usb-3-camera.html

I've been happily imaging away at gain 150 and loving the results so I'm now very much looking forward to testing gain 252!

Thank you to the kind customer who brought this change to our attention 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dark Raven]

On 08/09/2022 at 21:51, Chris said:

I'm now very much looking forward to testing gain 252

Hi Chris,
It would be interesting to see side by side comparison of HCG switching from 150 to 252 with everything else being the same.

[Chris]

20 hours ago, Dark Raven said:

Hi Chris,
It would be interesting to see side by side comparison of HCG switching from 150 to 252 with everything else being the same.

I'll post the results when I've got them