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Global Warming


malc-c

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I originally wrote the following for our societies newsletter in 2019, but thought I would post it here with a slight update given recent events.  Feel free to comment 

 

With most of Europe in the grip of one of the hottest heat waves, with temperatures in France exceeding 40c, the media is quick to point the finger at global warming, with most sighting modern 21st century living (modern traffic, manufacturing and chemical pollutants and forest devastation causing the so-called greenhouse effect).  However, this got me thinking; especially as us astronomers know the Sun’s activity rolls round on a regular cycle, what heat waves occurred throughout history.  I mean if the UK or Europe had a long exceptionally hot summer three hundred years ago, then you couldn’t put that down to modern transport.

I’ve spent the past hour or so googling around the internet and came up with these accounts:

July 1757:  Like current events, Paris experienced a peak of 11 days, where 10 of them exceeded 30c.  Most days in this 10 day period the maximum daily temperature was 35c with the hottest being 20th July when it peaked at 37.5c

1906:  In August and September of 1906 the UK sweltered for four days between 31st August and 3rd September, with the mercury hitting 35c in Northamptonshire and central London.

1911:  Five years later the UK was gripped by another heat wave, only this time it lasted a lot longer than the short 1906 heat wave.  Starting in July 1911, it lasted in mid September which also resulted in drought conditions as there had been no rain since the beginning of July.  Temperatures in Kings Lynn reached 33c by the end of July.  Daily temperatures were typically 27-28c every day, rising to 33c in September.  The drought and heat wave ended on 11th September when the high pressure zone receded and temperatures fell by around 7c.  July 1911 broke all records for sunshine hours, with Eastbourne topping out at 383.9 hours, which is on par with the Nevada desert.  The 1911 heat wave was not confined to the UK, with many states in Eastern North America also affected, with estimated deaths reported as being between 300- 2000 people.  Between the 4th July and 15th July temperatures reached 41c.

1923:  For around two weeks in August temperatures reached 34c in the UK

1932:  Two notable heat waves affected the UK in the summer of 1932.  The first centred around 11th August with temperatures in the low 30c.  The second came towards the end of the same month, with 36c in London

1933:  Another UK summer where temperatures exceeded 34c in the last week of July, with reports of hurricanes occurring over Europe as the heat wave came to a dramatic end.  How true that was is anyone’s guess as my limited research hasn’t confirmed the reports.

1957:  The whole of the UK in July of this year saw wall to wall sunshine, with the peak temperature reaching 36c before violent thunderstorms finally changed things.

1976:  The infamous summer of ’76, where the third highest temperature recorded in the UK to date since records began was recorded.  36c was recorded in Cheltenham on 3rd July 1976.  The heat wave lasted for 66 days between 23rd June and 27th August. Heathrow airport had 16 consecutive days where the temperature was over 30c followed by 15 further consecutive days where it exceeded 32c with 35c peaking in several parts of the UK.

1983:  The United Kingdom experienced a heatwave during July 1983. This was the hottest month ever recorded until it was beaten in 2006. The heatwave is remembered, not for its extreme heat but the relentless heat with temperatures around 32 °C (90 °F) every day.

1990:  A short but intense heat wave of just four days hit the UK between 1st August and 4th August with the highest temperature of 37.1c was recorded in Cheltenham.

1995 & 1997:  Two hot summers resulted in the 2nd and 3rd heat wave hitting the UK in a seven year period.  1st August saw temperatures hit 35c

2003:  During April 2003 there was a summer-like heat wave that affected the United Kingdom however mainly England and Wales where temperature records were broken. The all-time record still stands however temperatures reached around 27 °C (80 °F).  The warm temperatures continued through the summer of 2003, resulting in the hottest summer prior to 2022  in Europe since 1540.  France suffered particularly badly, with almost 15000 heat related deaths (mostly the elderly).  Northern France had more than eight consecutive days where temperatures exceeded 40c.  In the UK around 2000 people (again mainly the elderly) died by heat related causes.  Temperatures again broke previous records hitting 38.5c (101.3f) at Faversham in Kent on 10th August.

2006:  Just three years later in 2006 Europe was hit by another long heat wave, although the maximum temperatures didn’t exceed the 2003 record, 36.5c was recorded on 19th July.  After a particularly dry winter, the heatwave did nothing to help the drought situation and a hosepipe ban was issued.

2010:  This was an exceptional year for heat waves.  Basically nearly all the countries in the Northern hemisphere experienced exceptionally high temperatures.  From most of the United States, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, Hong Kong, North Africa and the European continent as a whole, along with parts of Canada, Russia, Indochina, South Korea and Japan during May, June, July, and August 2010.   No UK records were broken, and in the UK the highest temperature reached 31.7c, but it was the fact temperatures had risen over a 6 month period and affected half the globe

In the UK we have experienced heat waves almost most years, or every other year.  2012, 2013 which saw the UK experience the warmest July prior to 2022 since 2006, 2015 and in 2016 the UK experienced the hottest September day since 1911, when on 13th September it reached 34.4c.  In 2017 temperatures hit 34.5c at Heathrow on 21st June.  Again in 2018 the temperature exceeded 30c for more than two consecutive weeks in July, and now in 2022 the UK broke all UK records exceeding 40c

What's interesting is that whilst high temperatures were recorded in centuries past, they were less frequent.  Now it's seem that we can expect to hit 30+c for several weeks  every summer year on year. But can we put the blame on the current way we live.  You would have thought that with more and more wind and solar farms appearing in the past decade or so we should see the worlds climate beginning to cool.  Yet we've exceeded 40c only weeks ago with several days of 30+c and rain fall measured in fractions of a millimetre.   

 

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I wouldn't jump to conclusions on global warming by just looking at the prevalence of summer heatwaves in one single country.

There is no doubt that the world is warming up, note this graph only goes back to the 1850s which is the period we have actually temperature measurements for.  There are graphs that go further back (and that further reinforce the recent increases) but they are constructed using temperature proxy data and so have rather large error bars.

20200324_Global_average_temperature_-_NASA-GISS_HadCrut_NOAA_Japan_BerkeleyE_svg.thumb.png.a0cf838a7ced29bc3bfae146954e2b43.png

 

Now, what has been going on since around about the 1800s?

The scientific consensus is that the world is indeed warming and that the cause is anthropological.  Generally speaking, any doubt about that anthropological cause mainly comes from industry/media/political figures, rather than scientists. It's just a shame that the general public are exposed to these media/political figures a lot more that they are to the scientists, and so there is a fashion for climate change denial now amongst those who see themselves as 'free thinkers'.

Personally, there is no doubt in my mind that the observed warming of the globe is being driven by accumulation of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Cn we do anything about it?  I doubt it, there's just not enough will - political or individual - to make the changes necessary to avert further warming. I think we all will need to learn to live with our new hotter planet. Scottish wine anyone?

 

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1 hour ago, malc-c said:

I originally wrote the following for our societies newsletter in 2019, but thought I would post it here with a slight update given recent events.  Feel free to comment 

 

With most of Europe in the grip of one of the hottest heat waves, with temperatures in France exceeding 40c, the media is quick to point the finger at global warming, with most sighting modern 21st century living (modern traffic, manufacturing and chemical pollutants and forest devastation causing the so-called greenhouse effect).  However, this got me thinking; especially as us astronomers know the Sun’s activity rolls round on a regular cycle, what heat waves occurred throughout history.  I mean if the UK or Europe had a long exceptionally hot summer three hundred years ago, then you couldn’t put that down to modern transport.

I’ve spent the past hour or so googling around the internet and came up with these accounts:

July 1757:  Like current events, Paris experienced a peak of 11 days, where 10 of them exceeded 30c.  Most days in this 10 day period the maximum daily temperature was 35c with the hottest being 20th July when it peaked at 37.5c

1906:  In August and September of 1906 the UK sweltered for four days between 31st August and 3rd September, with the mercury hitting 35c in Northamptonshire and central London.

1911:  Five years later the UK was gripped by another heat wave, only this time it lasted a lot longer than the short 1906 heat wave.  Starting in July 1911, it lasted in mid September which also resulted in drought conditions as there had been no rain since the beginning of July.  Temperatures in Kings Lynn reached 33c by the end of July.  Daily temperatures were typically 27-28c every day, rising to 33c in September.  The drought and heat wave ended on 11th September when the high pressure zone receded and temperatures fell by around 7c.  July 1911 broke all records for sunshine hours, with Eastbourne topping out at 383.9 hours, which is on par with the Nevada desert.  The 1911 heat wave was not confined to the UK, with many states in Eastern North America also affected, with estimated deaths reported as being between 300- 2000 people.  Between the 4th July and 15th July temperatures reached 41c.

1923:  For around two weeks in August temperatures reached 34c in the UK

1932:  Two notable heat waves affected the UK in the summer of 1932.  The first centred around 11th August with temperatures in the low 30c.  The second came towards the end of the same month, with 36c in London

1933:  Another UK summer where temperatures exceeded 34c in the last week of July, with reports of hurricanes occurring over Europe as the heat wave came to a dramatic end.  How true that was is anyone’s guess as my limited research hasn’t confirmed the reports.

1957:  The whole of the UK in July of this year saw wall to wall sunshine, with the peak temperature reaching 36c before violent thunderstorms finally changed things.

1976:  The infamous summer of ’76, where the third highest temperature recorded in the UK to date since records began was recorded.  36c was recorded in Cheltenham on 3rd July 1976.  The heat wave lasted for 66 days between 23rd June and 27th August. Heathrow airport had 16 consecutive days where the temperature was over 30c followed by 15 further consecutive days where it exceeded 32c with 35c peaking in several parts of the UK.

1983:  The United Kingdom experienced a heatwave during July 1983. This was the hottest month ever recorded until it was beaten in 2006. The heatwave is remembered, not for its extreme heat but the relentless heat with temperatures around 32 °C (90 °F) every day.

1990:  A short but intense heat wave of just four days hit the UK between 1st August and 4th August with the highest temperature of 37.1c was recorded in Cheltenham.

1995 & 1997:  Two hot summers resulted in the 2nd and 3rd heat wave hitting the UK in a seven year period.  1st August saw temperatures hit 35c

2003:  During April 2003 there was a summer-like heat wave that affected the United Kingdom however mainly England and Wales where temperature records were broken. The all-time record still stands however temperatures reached around 27 °C (80 °F).  The warm temperatures continued through the summer of 2003, resulting in the hottest summer prior to 2022  in Europe since 1540.  France suffered particularly badly, with almost 15000 heat related deaths (mostly the elderly).  Northern France had more than eight consecutive days where temperatures exceeded 40c.  In the UK around 2000 people (again mainly the elderly) died by heat related causes.  Temperatures again broke previous records hitting 38.5c (101.3f) at Faversham in Kent on 10th August.

2006:  Just three years later in 2006 Europe was hit by another long heat wave, although the maximum temperatures didn’t exceed the 2003 record, 36.5c was recorded on 19th July.  After a particularly dry winter, the heatwave did nothing to help the drought situation and a hosepipe ban was issued.

2010:  This was an exceptional year for heat waves.  Basically nearly all the countries in the Northern hemisphere experienced exceptionally high temperatures.  From most of the United States, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, Hong Kong, North Africa and the European continent as a whole, along with parts of Canada, Russia, Indochina, South Korea and Japan during May, June, July, and August 2010.   No UK records were broken, and in the UK the highest temperature reached 31.7c, but it was the fact temperatures had risen over a 6 month period and affected half the globe

In the UK we have experienced heat waves almost most years, or every other year.  2012, 2013 which saw the UK experience the warmest July prior to 2022 since 2006, 2015 and in 2016 the UK experienced the hottest September day since 1911, when on 13th September it reached 34.4c.  In 2017 temperatures hit 34.5c at Heathrow on 21st June.  Again in 2018 the temperature exceeded 30c for more than two consecutive weeks in July, and now in 2022 the UK broke all UK records exceeding 40c

What's interesting is that whilst high temperatures were recorded in centuries past, they were less frequent.  Now it's seem that we can expect to hit 30+c for several weeks  every summer year on year. But can we put the blame on the current way we live.  You would have thought that with more and more wind and solar farms appearing in the past decade or so we should see the worlds climate beginning to cool.  Yet we've exceeded 40c only weeks ago with several days of 30+c and rain fall measured in fractions of a millimetre.   

 

Referring to your final paragraph, solar and wind power across the globe is still massively outstripped by fossil fuel power generation, with the latter increasing significantly in emerging industrial nations like India.

The causes of global warming are a cumulative effect and we cannot just take use localised heatwaves as a measure.

In the UK alone across the year, temperatures are rising just enough to reduce snowfall in places snow was gauranteed each winter. Rainfall patterns are changing, leading to an increased risk of flooding and so on.

The climate is changing rapidly. It's obvious to see and if climate experts are blaming global warming due to fossil fuel consumption, farming methods, deforestation etc then I'm happy to believe them. 

Edited by ScouseSpaceCadet
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Naturally occurring climate change takes place over eons, in which ever direction mother nature chooses, this allows enough time for most species, via natural selection, to adapt to said changes. However, one species (smarty pants humans) have decided that they want it all and they want it now. The advent of the industrial revolution has brought about untold benefits for mankind, yet the environment in which we and all life on earth has to live in, has unavoidably had to take the brunt of these rapid changes and suffer the consequences, of which global warming is but one.

Shouldn't mess with mother nature.

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You mention the solar cycle, which is pretty well known. However, from what I can find, it seems the best figure for variation of total solar irradiance due to it is 0.1% on average (with some variation, cycle-to-cycle, as expected). That makes it a negligible factor and in any case it varies up AND down rather than consistently upward.

I think the deniers have tried this idea and lost, convincingly, to the science.

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are temperatures measured on Mars?  sun activity on the ISS?  you don't read much about this but I often wonder if our warming parallels locations outside the Earth.  If that is the case, it is of course not the intention that it will be published!😉

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"What's interesting is that whilst high temperatures were recorded in centuries past, they were less frequent."

The latest IPCC report predicts exactly what you describe in terms of frequency of heatwave/flood events.  Yes, there will be increases in temperatures, but more problematic is once per decade, and once per 50 year heatwaves and floods will become more frequent as global temps increase.  Particularly, flood events are more impacted.  Anyone older than 30 years old can see the changes since childhood, in my option.

"You would have thought that with more and more wind and solar farms appearing in the past decade or so we should see the worlds climate beginning to cool. "

The problem is that global temperatures will continue to rise even if we significantly reduce our consumption of fossil fuels, it's a process that has its own inertia.  If you have time, I would recommend reading the IPCC report summary from last year:

 IPCC_AR6_WGI_SPM.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3VEePTTm

The biggest problem for us for now, is the increase in water in the atmosphere as a result of temperature rise.  

 

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43 minutes ago, craigg said:

 Anyone older than 30 years old can see the changes since childhood, in my option.

I would agree with this.  I was born in '62, and remember winters being cold with a decent amount of snow falling most years, and in summer it was very common to have long warm sunny days, yet as I've grown up the winters have got warmer and summers having shorter periods of high temperatures and often being wetter.  It was almost as if the swing between winter and summer have been ironed out with quite a flat average over the year.

I just wanted to add that my OP had no scientific basis at all.  It was simply a search through time to see if heatwaves were experienced before the industrial revolution and we started to pollute the atmosphere with smoke and fumes and other gasses associated with global warming.  One thing to add is that whilst I mentioned the frequency is increasing, better record keeping compared to 300 years ago may cloud the conclusion.  

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4 hours ago, craigg said:

The biggest problem for us for now, is the increase in water in the atmosphere as a result of temperature rise.  

 

Short term, without a doubt, the increase in energy in general in the atmosphere, is going to cause us very great problems, in our lifetimes. Medium to long term is the current mass extinction event we are in the middle of, almost certainly caused by human activity. The scientific evidence is compelling. I am sure you all already know, but here is a catch up. :smiley: ( If you have the time and inclination. )

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20121101-a-looming-mass-extinction

Quote

In around 300 years time, 75% of all mammal species will have disappeared from this planet. That's the startling prediction from Anthony Barnosky, a palaeobiologist at the University of California, Berkeley – that’s if the current rates of extinction continue and the animals already threatened or endangered are wiped out this century.

Barnosky studies biodiversity changes and extinction rates that occurred in the deep past, and compares them to trends happening now. Since life first evolved billions of years ago and flourished, diversified, and made our planet what it is, there have been five mass extinctions. Each was triggered by a cataclysmic event and resulted in at least 75% of all species going extinct. The last of these events occurred 65 million years ago, when a meteorite slammed into Earth, throwing up persistent clouds of debris that darkened the sky for years. The resulting change in climate led to a mass extinction that included the dinosaurs.

https://populationmatters.org/news/2020/06/human-caused-mass-extinction-still-accelerating

Quote

The study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) by a group of scientists including Population Matters Patron Paul Ehrlich found that out of almost 30,000 species of land-dwelling vertebrates, 515 already have fewer than 1,000 individuals left. More than half of these species have been reduced to 250 or fewer individuals, mostly mammals and amphibians. The species on the brink include the Sumatran rhino, the Clarion island wren, the Epañola giant tortoise and the Harlequin frog.

There have already been five mass extinction episodes over the last 450 million years – each of these were caused by catastrophic environmental changes such as massive volcanic eruptions, depletion of oceanic oxygen, or an asteroid strike. The sixth mass extinction we are in now is due to human activity.

https://www.britannica.com/science/human-induced-extinction

There is so much other information out there on the web, if you care to look. Even though it may seem to not really have much effect on humans if we are heading for a monoculture, it very much will.

Then there is this from this morning on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62378157

Quote

Catastrophic climate change outcomes, including human extinction, are not being taken seriously enough by scientists, a new study says.

The authors say that the consequences of more extreme warming - still on the cards if no action is taken - are "dangerously underexplored".

They argue that the world needs to start preparing for the possibility of what they term the "climate endgame".

But this new paper says that not enough attention has been given to more extreme outcomes of climate change.

"I think it's sane risk management to think about the plausible worst-case scenarios and we do it when it comes to every other situation, we should definitely do when it comes to the fate of the planet and species," said lead author Dr Luke Kemp from the University of Cambridge.

I would say it is sensible to plan for the worst, but hope for the best. Particularly in this situation, because no one seems to care much at all and from what I see, the goals often stated will not be reached, but will be far exceeded.

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49 minutes ago, Astrobits said:

I offer this graph for your perusal:

Anything familiar about it?

I have removed the Y axis data just to keep you guessing, the X axis is date ( years).

 

Nigel

worldpop1.jpg

Looks like a world population graph

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O.K. Mandy has it.

Here's the  plot with data

.image.jpg.30e99edbc112b66d691615b4e5ccb9c6.jpg

The problem is that a proper scientific experiment to verify a hypothesis would involve more than one Earth and the ability to vary the CO2 at will without changing other factors. After over 100 years we are still testing Einstein's General Relativity theory, so why are we so sure that the CO2 theory is perfect?

I read the third assessment report of the IPCC. The conclusion they reached was an average of approx 13 different climate models. There were more than 13 available ( and non of them included ALL the possible variables---as admitted in the report) so why choose those 13? It doesn't say.

I have a talk regarding climate and the external factors which can affect it which I can give to any club that is interested and that is within reasonable driving distance for me here in Somerset,

For the record, I believe that the climate IS changing and we should reduce our CO2 emissions by burning less fossil fuel. After all, fossil fuel stocks ARE limited and WILL run out eventually and it would be best to use them for other uses for which they are more suited than simply burning them.

Nigel

 

 

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I like the idea that in 50 years we find out the global warming was not man-made after all, but that the fear that it was made us clean up our act, save energy, waste, stop polluting and more people live longer, healthier and happier lives as a result. With 40°C nighttime temps in the UK.

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I know there are rules regarding politics on the forum, so hopefully what I'm about to say won't get this discussion into trouble.

Whilst I think majority of us will agree that we need to reduce our CO2 output, save energy and other resources, and that combined with the rapid increase in worlds population something needs to be done.  But personally I can't see how gluing yourself to a road / train / bus or blockading a fuel depot will resolve that, mainly as it's things like the high deforestation of the worlds rainforests  etc that needs to stop.  Try telling the farmer he's killing the planet cutting down the trees to use the land for farming when he's just see the $$ from governments for doing so as the incentive.   We can do little against the other countries, some who are the largest users of fossil fuels don't want to fall in line with other countries when it comes to commitment to reducing their CO2 footprint, and the antics of a handful of passionate people won't make these others change their habits.  

 

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13 minutes ago, malc-c said:

I know there are rules regarding politics on the forum, so hopefully what I'm about to say won't get this discussion into trouble.

Whilst I think majority of us will agree that we need to reduce our CO2 output, save energy and other resources, and that combined with the rapid increase in worlds population something needs to be done.  But personally I can't see how gluing yourself to a road / train / bus or blockading a fuel depot will resolve that, mainly as it's things like the high deforestation of the worlds rainforests  etc that needs to stop.  Try telling the farmer he's killing the planet cutting down the trees to use the land for farming when he's just see the $$ from governments for doing so as the incentive.   We can do little against the other countries, some who are the largest users of fossil fuels don't want to fall in line with other countries when it comes to commitment to reducing their CO2 footprint, and the antics of a handful of passionate people won't make these others change their habits.  

 

I don’t see anything wrong with your post Malc, so no problem.

This is an interesting thread so please do keep it non political so it can continue. Thanks.

I echo Nigel’s comment that population growth is the biggest problem and is unsustainable. The trouble is, many business models depend upon ever growing populations to continue the demand for continued profit growth, there are vested interests all over the place.

One positive aspect is that there are clear signs of population growth declining or even reversing in a number of countries, even the ones with huge populations so perhaps we will reach a peak sooner than might be expected. Still likely to be 10 or 11 billion though which I find terrifying! 😱

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40 minutes ago, malc-c said:

I know there are rules regarding politics on the forum, so hopefully what I'm about to say won't get this discussion into trouble.

Whilst I think majority of us will agree that we need to reduce our CO2 output, save energy and other resources, and that combined with the rapid increase in worlds population something needs to be done.  But personally I can't see how gluing yourself to a road / train / bus or blockading a fuel depot will resolve that, mainly as it's things like the high deforestation of the worlds rainforests  etc that needs to stop.  Try telling the farmer he's killing the planet cutting down the trees to use the land for farming when he's just see the $$ from governments for doing so as the incentive.   We can do little against the other countries, some who are the largest users of fossil fuels don't want to fall in line with other countries when it comes to commitment to reducing their CO2 footprint, and the antics of a handful of passionate people won't make these others change their habits.  

 

You've opened discussion about those protests on a public forum, so one goal achieved. When passionate people protest, movements grow and action often follows.

As much as I'm one of those watching tv and saying, 'Omg look at those nutters', I hope they continue. The world needs those, 'nutters'.

 

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On 01/08/2022 at 20:00, Robindonne said:

are temperatures measured on Mars?  sun activity on the ISS?  you don't read much about this but I often wonder if our warming parallels locations outside the Earth.  If that is the case, it is of course not the intention that it will be published!😉

Temperatures are measured on Mars and there were media reports of "global warming on Mars" which was used to incorrectly claim Earth's warming was caused by the Sun, not greenhouse gasses. But actually Mars warms and then cools periodically caused by albedo changes as part of its Dust Cycle.

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One of the difficulties in persuading other nations to cut back on fossil fuel use, cutting back forests etc is that the ones doing the preaching are the same ones who've already been there and done that and are now developed and wealthy and with far less if any forest left. Perhaps they've eventually realised while on that journey and very slowly started to move toward other forms of energy, but they've also curbed their own deforestation by offshoring the production of foodstuffs to developing nations who are then needing to cut back forests etc to meet those and their own demands. Then we use fossil fuels to ship that produce back for our own consumption. It's no longer just so-called exotic fruits but even basic 'regular' fruit and stuff like salads that's imported in bulk.

While we continue on that path we can't reasonably expect nations that are still developing to comply just because we/science says so. Not without some means of levelling the field across the globe, otherwise its like saying well ok we wrecked the environment with our industrialisation etc but now we need you to cut back but we still want you do supply us while you remain poor/underdeveloped.

The explosion in population count, longevity as a result of medical advances etc just drives this further and harder. At some point the cliff edge will appear, the big question is can we as a species adapt and change our ways before we tip over the edge?

Edited by DaveL59
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2 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

Me, I’m still waiting for the next ice age. Scientists did tell us there was one on the way not to far in the not to distant past it seems, and scientists are never wrong are they?
<……quickly runs for cover!……> 

I think the European Ice Age comes next, when rising global temperatures shift the Gulf Stream. So scientists say. I'm not a scientist, so it's difficult to say.  Sounds about right though.

I do know what Soylent Green is made out of though ...

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1 minute ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I think the European Ice Age comes next, when rising global temperatures shift the Gulf Stream. So scientists say. I'm not a scientist, so it's difficult to say.  Sounds about right though.

I do know what Soylent Green is made out of though ...

Great movie. Not seen it in years! Squashed peas wasn’t it? 🤔

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