Sky-Watcher EQ5 SynScan is broke down

[MAKARON]

Hello everyone! My mount Sky-Watcher EQ5 SynScan is broke down =(

look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPsHygR8iuM (Jun 20, 2022), note: i press button "RIGHT" and the R.A. motor starts spinning to the left then to the right... very strange behavior.

i had bought this the mount on January this year, from Germany. When this delivered to me (also on January), i had connected it to the power supply DC 12V 0.5A and 1A, and the mount turned on, but when i had pressed button "UP or DOWN or LEFT or RIGHT" the motor then the mount rebooted. Then i realized that needed power supply DC 12V 3A, ok, i had bought it. After this, my the mount had worked, this had been cool! i saw our universe! ok.

but, now the mount is broke down =( i don't know why =( maybe because i experimented by power supply =(

when this problem beginning, first started noise the Dec. motor, look: https://youtu.be/4IcHLvmym-o (June 12, 2022). note: the R.A. motor no noise!

when i connected the Dec. motor for R.A. connector the Dec. motor did not noise! look: https://youtu.be/AlgjTF4Clbc (June 12, 2022), note: this means that the motor is not broken (probably)

on 13 June morning i try turned on the mount (use power supply DC 12V 3A) and both the motors did not noise! for record video this, i restart the mount, and turned on again but... then the R.A. motor also started noise =((( now, both the motors noise =((((

please note, the motor control box the red lamp flashing! ... I don't remember if it was like this in the beginning or not ... next, i bought power supply DC 12V 6A, look: https://youtu.be/GFmT0cH2acU (June 19, 2022), note: use the power supply DC 12V 6A and both the motors noise =(

here is another video: https://youtu.be/UuKG3ctThmc, https://youtu.be/8QLg6QQP6bI, note:  additional video demo

maybe these photos will be useful: https://disk.yandex.ru/d/TQuTjQ8OJPb19Q

i have already created topic in the another forum about this my problem. i have two solutions:

1) we have a master in russia (yes, i from russia, and my country attacked Ukraine, i hate putin), he will be free in September and now he doesn't take orders to repair. i had been waiting alredy month, and i will wait for more =(

2) or i buy the "Sky-Watcher Motor Control Box EQ5 PRO", i had contacted official dealer Sky-Watcher in russia, which will have been ordering in September from the plant a differens details... and, they offer me pay in September this "Sky-Watcher Motor Control Box EQ5 PRO", which wil heve delivered me mid 2023...

but, maybe someone will have something to write about this, maybe someone already had such a similar problem ...

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by MAKARON

[malc-c]

You're 12v 6A supply should be more than enough to drive the mount.  Both motors slewing will draw around 2A, so you have plenty of headroom.  The fact the handset can command the mount confirms that there is no issue with the synscan unit or handset, and the issue could well be the motors or, a gearing / meshing problem.  If you remove the motors from the mount and drive them with the hands set do they still make that sound or do they run sweetly.  If they run sweet then check the mount for anything binding, or gearing off centre.  Then try an refit the motors, ensuring that there is sufficient clearance between the gears

[Cosmic Geoff]

You might get more responses if you describe the results, rather than posting videos, which people have to load and watch.

I can tell you that the red light on my EQ-5 Synscan does not flash.  The motors do make a noise when running at speed.

We can see the display on your handset, so it looks like the handset is not faulty. 

The displayed voltage of 11.5 volts looks rather low.  Not low enough to stop the mount working IMHO, but not good. +12.0v to +13.5v would be better.

If both motors behave the same, that leaves the control box, as you already suspect.

I cannot see any burnt components in the photos. Are there any burnt components?

Depending on what facilities you have locally, you could try having the board diagnosed and repaired by an electronics technician.

3 hours ago, MAKARON said:

(yes, i from russia, and my country attacked Ukraine, i hate putin),

Just remember that if we can read this, so can the Russian authorities. Take care!

[Robindonne]

Maybe check the worm wheel?   Sounds like metal scraping

[MAKARON]

everyone, thank very much for answer!

16 hours ago, malc-c said:

If you remove the motors from the mount and drive them with the hands set do they still make that sound or do they run sweetly.

if it the question, yes, if i remove the motor, then the motor also noise, i have video this: https://youtu.be/UuKG3ctThmc

@malc-c, i doubt that the problem is in the mechanics, since the first video shows a very strange behavior of this movement. my mistake was that I did not immediately explain it in the first post here. I'm sorry.

@Cosmic Geoff, no, it has not burnt components. at least i can't see it. 

i don't wrote here, but i have connected the mount to power supply DC 16V 3A, and the red lamp has not been flashing, but both the motor has been noise. sorry for my English lang. 

@Robindonne, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) this is not the case, because this video (https://youtu.be/UuKG3ctThmc) demonstration then the motors noise without metal. in addition, there is a very strange behavior of movement with one pressed button "to the right" (first video)

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by MAKARON

[malc-c]

There was a post very similar to this recently.  If I remember correctly it turned out to be a broken wire between the motor and the DIN plug, effectively resulting in one of the coils in the motor not being turned on and effecting the timing.  Check the wiring on all connectors to see if one has become detached.

Your Synscan unit is also one of the newer units based around an ARM cortex controller.  Whilst this in not itself an issue, some people have reported either a difference in the sound the motors make compared to the older PIC controller based board, suggesting the driving of the motors is done differently as well.   If it's not possible to check inside the DIN plugs to see if any wires have detached then contact the retailer (assuming the scope is new and still in warranty) with a view of getting a replacement of the whole package and not just the controller or motor. 

[Robindonne]

Yes i saw the video.  But thought that scraping sound wasnt there when the motor was disconnected.  Anyway, did you already swap the motors to check if its the motor or cable? 

[MAKARON]

7 hours ago, malc-c said:

If I remember correctly it turned out to be a broken wire between the motor and the DIN plug

@malc-c, while trying to find this topic on the forum. there is a lot of interesting, I will look! Tell me please, was there such a behavior too, that when you press the "right" button (or any other), the motors started to spin either to the left or to the right? like from my first video here.

@Robindonne, if the motor are not energized, and just twist with your fingers, then there is no rattle, the move is smooth.

i haven't taken apart the R.A. motor yet. it all started in the Dec. motor, i took out this motor, turned it on on the table (on video). Yes, I swapped cables.
i even "called" them (checked) - there seems to be no break, this:

https://i.ibb.co/GFk2jVP/IMG-20220619-190846.jpg

then already (June 13) the R.A. motor began to make noise. I also tried to change the cable to it, it was unsuccessful, as it started to make noise then, it still makes noise.

but, now I have again a desire to check it out. perhaps I missed something. hm. if indeed such behavior of the motor is possible due to a cable break (when it moves to the left then to the right, although one button "to the right" is pressed). but again (questions), a break in two cables at once? and these cables are so thick and hard. but maybe something with a DIN plug. ok. i will try to check again.

thank you all very much!

[DaveL59]

10 hours ago, MAKARON said:

 

i don't wrote here, but i have connected the mount to power supply DC 16V 3A, and the red lamp has not been flashing, but both the motor has been noise. sorry for my English lang. 

 

 

Be very careful about the supply voltage as you're at or over the limit which I believe is listed as 15v in the manuals, any higher than what you're running and you risk frying the boards. Out of interest what does the handset report as voltage with this new 16v supply?

Edited August 1, 2022 by DaveL59

[malc-c]

11 hours ago, MAKARON said:

i don't wrote here, but i have connected the mount to power supply DC 16V 3A, and the red lamp has not been flashing, but both the motor has been noise. sorry for my English lang. 

I missed this.... 16v is really too much for these units.  I've run Synta mounts on 13.8v regulated, but 16v is really pushing it.  You may be lucky with these new boards, but certainly the older generation wouldn't tolerate that amount of voltage.

I can't really comment on the loose wire, it was this thread where the member posted a video of his motors juddering in the same way.  He then traced it to a broken wire in one of the DIN sockets that the interlink cables plug into.  If you have checked all the wires and cables and they all check out fine then it is either a faulty motor or faulty controller.  

Can't offer anything else really...

 

[MAKARON]

@DaveL59, yes, thank you, me had already wrote other people about this. but, when problem started i try this: https://youtu.be/QHPC5XwQm20 (June 17, 2022), note: i connected the mount to power supply DC 16V 3A.

@malc-c, thank you!

 

[MAKARON]

in order to exclude the option of a problem with the DIN plug, I disassembled it again and connected the motor directly, it still makes noise, and spins in different directions every time you press the same button (for example, the "right" button) https://youtu.be/k0_aN-CXhNE at 7th speed, the motor generally sticks, makes noise and cannot spin ...

at the same time, in the first two seconds of the video, at the top right, you can see how I damaged the cable at the white plug ... I tried to solder it myself, but it didn’t work out very well, so I definitely need to give it to the master, this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/505910916437639179/1007312567032623205/IMG_20220811_231022.jpg 

sorry if someone was distracted by my message here, in fact it is not about anything, it just showed that the problem in my case is not with the DIN plug.

I will definitely unsubscribe with the result, either I will be repaired, or I will buy a new "Sky-Watcher Motor Control Box EQ5 PRO" (in the middle of 2023, if everything goes well, although with a high degree of probability, nothing good will happen with putin), or something else, thank you all and bye!

 

[DaveL59]

Ah that image with the broken wire/pin. You might be able to source replacement pin inserts for the IDC header to give you a better repair, worth asking around at any electronics stores around or look on Ali or similar sites.

[malc-c]

@MAKARON are you based in the UK?   If you are then I'm willing to take a look at the kit (I should be able to repair the damaged wire as I have a crimpling kit with lots of inserts, that at least one size must fit !).  I can't do anything should the issue turn out to be with the main processor or driver chips, but if its something else that is within my ability I'll give it a go.

Drop me a PM and we'll sort out the logistics 

[jif001]

The motor issue you are having looks identical to the problem I had with my EQM-35. At a high rate it struggles to get going like mine did, but then spins freely. What about at a low rate? Set to a lower rate my motor just jerked backwards and forwards and didn’t turn at all (in fact I think it only turned at rate 9).

Like you I investigated everything (I even dismantled the motor - not recommended - although it survived the trauma). I would say the problem is a broken connection somewhere. For me it was at the DIN plug - those black shrink-wraps can make it look fine when it’s broken. The connections are very fragile (poor design in my view) and moving them around can create enough stress to cause a break. 

You have shown a broken wire at the JST connector, which will obviously need to be fixed. Connecting the motor directly to the board doesn’t cure the problem, which suggests it’s not the interconnecting cables or the DIN plugs that are broken. Mine failed again recently and I discovered a broken pin in one of the JST connectors - no doubt it was weakened by all of my earlier efforts to track down the cause of the problem. To fix it I bought some new JST connectors (both male and female) with attached wires, but unfortunately the connectors were not the same size as the existing ones, so I cut the existing wires at the mid point and spliced the wires onto the new ones, same for both sides, replacing both the male and the female connectors. Now it works fine. 

I’ve had this issue twice now and both were due to broken connections. I did at one point buy a new motor controller but the problem remained, so it wasn’t that. Thankfully the retailer accepted my return.

Therefore my advice is to search for broken connections between the board and the motors. No doubt you’ve done that already, but I did it several times and yet managed to miss the broken one each time (I think it’s likely that I was temporarily remaking the connection when testing it!). If you don’t find one then go back and check again (plugs, sockets, cables). If you don’t find one after several attempts, it’s probably a board fault and you may need a new board, but before you buy one check the connections again!

[MAKARON]

@jif001 that's exactly how it is with me! I didn't try it at 8 speeds, it can no longer rotate at 7 - it taps a little, tries to rotate, and at lower speeds it doesn't rotate at all!

you had the same as on the first video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPsHygR8iuM ? when you press one button "to the right" it rotates in one direction then in the other ... maybe there is still a problem in controller..

anyway thanks a lot! you motivated me once again and once again check all the connections!!! even if I break something in the process. I will try to be careful!

[jif001]

The motor has several coils which are energised in turn by the controller. Each time a coil is energised it turns the rotor a small distance, then it’s picked up by the next coil as it becomes energised, and then the next coil as that is energised … and so on, resulting in the rotation. If a connection to one of those coils is broken then instead of being pulled forward the rotor stops, and can be dragged backwards by subsequent energisation of the previous coil. At high speed, the inertia of the rotor is probably too great for it to be dragged back after a tiny fraction of a second, so it struggles to get going but then it succeeds. At low rate the rotor stops and then just quivers.

There’s a good explanation of stepper motor function here …

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by jif001

[MAKARON]

Yes, it means it can, then in one direction then in the other - by pressing one button. strange, if presumably there was a "break", then why did this problem start, then on one motor, then the next day on the second, while before that the first one still worked normally by connecting it to R.A. (https://youtu.be/AlgjTF4Clbc). and both make noise by connecting them directly to the JST. and for some reason the lamp on the motor control box is flashing.

ok, I'll try to figure it out, thanks again.

[jif001]

I hope you track the problem down. Everything points to a broken connection, so check and check and check again. 
 

if (when) you find it, please post the solution here 👍🏻

[MAKARON]

I will definitely post!

and i can say something now

I dared and removed the second motor (last time I wrote above https://i.ibb.co/mXMd0VJ/image.png), connected them directly via JST to DEC, current to R.A. (https://i.ibb.co/WfVT1jy/image.png) both make noise...

I tried to "check the winding" by closing (without powering the board) these two contacts: https://i.ibb.co/Drp5y51/image.png. the motors stopped spinning freely (spinning harder) with the winding everything seems to be ok, which means that with short wires from the motor to the JST - there are no problems (maybe).

then I noticed such a problem on the board - https://i.ibb.co/zR7xk8w/image.png. there are scratches - https://i.ibb.co/Z1T3TFW/image.png - it seems to be damaged every time I insert this board into the box and tighten it with screws. and maybe even when using, when connecting the power, some micro damage can be caused. I don’t know for sure if something could be damaged there, I didn’t understand visually (I looked under a magnifying glass), and I don’t understand from the picture either, I don’t understand at all how the contacts are arranged on the board ... here are more pictures: https://i.ibb.co/St9fygZ/image.png, https://i.ibb.co/3yZKB3m/image.png, https://i.ibb.co/fXxYjv4/image.png

you can not answer anything. anyway, most likely it is not clear whether there is damage that can affect this (noise of motors, knocking of motors, their jamming, breakage of contact) it's just like a message as a report.

I will definitely write more.

(I'll give it to a repairman in September or buy a new "Sky-Watcher Motor Control Box EQ5 PRO")

[MAKARON]

and yes, of course, I tried to "isolate" these scratches by placing a piece of paper - https://i.ibb.co/yqjmHzc/image.png - there was no change from this. the lamp on the board was still blinking, and the motors were still noisy.

[DaveL59]

hmm that makes me want to check mine out now too as this one that metal bracket could almost certainly bridge the thin track to what I presume is the larger earth/shielding, probably wouldn't be a good thing.

The other corner probably less of an issue since that's all the eartl/shielding and looks like is intended to connect to the plate hence the silvering around the mounting hole.

Edited August 16, 2022 by DaveL59

[MAKARON]

@DaveL59 do you also have EQ5 SynScan PRO? Do you have the POWER light flashing all the time? I didn’t fully understand (didn’t remember) whether it blinked before my problem, it seems not, but I can’t say for sure, I remember that I immediately paid attention to it, and considered it some sign of my problem ...

By the way, two months ago, when this problem started, I took a photo of the board of the reverse side, here https://disk.yandex.ru/d/jtscrE9tZ4t5JQ (you can download and watch the original photo) and these damages are also visible there!

 

[DaveL59]

I have the older EQ5 upgrade kit rather than the already fitted one but is essentially the same and its been fine. Light stays steady when there's enough volts/power, I run it either via a 12v5A switched mode PSU or a car starter LiPo pack fed via a 12v5A buck converter to prevent the voltage risk of frying the board since at no-load that pack sends 16v.

As to the scratches, yeah I can believe that, is very poor manufacture to assemble a board into a casing where metal brackets can rub away the varnish and then short sections. They should've put a gasket of some sort in there or designed the bracket so it stayed within bounds of the earth/shield area.

Edited August 16, 2022 by DaveL59

[DaveL59]

Having seen the marks on yours I just took mine apart to see if its the same. Seems its different and the metal tabs stay within the earth/shielding tracks:

A relief, but seems its a different (earlier) version to your one. Also hasn't breached the varnish layer.