Resolution TRUTH--finest scale

[A Scanner_darkly]

This test chart is for determining your scopes ultimate resolution, the line pair per millimeter criteria, its defined character on lunar and planetary targets.

It is independent of aperture.

Aperture equals a brightness gain not a concomitant resolution gain.

goto normankoren.com for instructions and the test image.

OBJECTIVE QUALITY  determines its edge spread function, the smoothness of figure, the degree of polish, how closely it adheres to the design when implemented, and is independent of size, increasing size only adds brightness, a potential power increase and eye comfort, a bigger exit pupil.

Essentially the point (!!!) is that the eye sees a line much easier than a point.

The following is a snipet from an article on sensor size and the eye.

Do Sensors “Outresolve” Lenses?

by Rubén Osuna and Efraín García

The was copied directly from a camera and sensor article by luminous -landscape.com

To add data to the assertion of superiour resolution POTENTIAL irregardless of size.

<snip>
The separation between cones in the fovea is 0.0015 millimeters, which limits the maximum possible visual resolution to 20 arc-seconds. In practical terms, it is known that 30 arc-seconds are barely discernible. Adopting that number as a bound, 60 arc-seconds can be a good practical value for the average absolute visual acuity limit.

In effect, a very small isolated spot cannot excite a sufficiently large number of retinal cones, but a line does. We can perceive more detail if it is formed by lines instead of spots, which implies that we can see a line thinner than the diameter of the minimum spot size perceivable. Another factor to be considered is contrast. The eye resolution also depends on the contrast between the bright areas and the dark areas. Even more, it is higher if we look at high contrast bright lines (or spots) on a dark background, and lower if we look at dark lines (or spots) on a bright background.

We can also see a thinner line if it is isolated from other adjacent lines.

We can see an isolated black line on bright background if the line is at least 0.001 millimeters thick (1 micron), considering an optimum (for resolution) viewing distance of 25 centimeters. This translates to 0.8 arc-seconds. An isolated bright line on a dark background can be seen irrespectively of its size, only depending on the brightness of the line.
End snip

Cassini division and rilles are examples of separating an edge, a LINE.

An obstructed mirror loses tonality intensity so when it tries to seperate a slightly brighter dull grey line from a slightly less grey line, like the Alpine rille at .3arcseconds wide, it can't do it, blurring the finest fine scale contrast data making it essentially invisible.

An apo passing purer whites and blacks has better potential resolution of lines than a mirror simply because of TONE loss.
My apo has NO PROBLEM with observing it as its contrast function is immensly high.

So it Requires Needing Brute Force, to make the same observation, its EXACTLY the SAME phenomena as seeing B33, the HorseHead, with a tiny but potent 70mm for when
PROPER IMAGE SCALE is applied, its an EASY target given 'ultra' conditions.

So please know that the absolute resolution, the visible CONTRAST of extended objects with linear features used with a superb lense a resolution MUCH much GREATER THAN POINT ONE arcsecond can be realized, any comparison with its specific p.s.f. number is NOT APPLICABLE and a grievous mistake.

HOPEFULLY y'all LEARNED something useful that could help you better observe.

Lines and points are two different biological KINGDOMS.
A modification of our approach to getting the absolute best image is needed; IMO quality instead of aperture.

Thus the massive investment in exit pupils for this magical tube, a true Divinity tube delivering a PURE & UNABERRATED wavefront.

AND you know, if you had QUESTIONS I would have done my best to answer them but....no.

Only lewd comments on CN - jeesh low lifes sure multiply like a nasty virus on fora there.....

Is it any wonder that people of principle dont post in CN anymore.
BillP
dr. d
EdZ etc etc
much at all if ever anymore! I wonder why that is ???

SGL is going down the same path looks like.

Ignorant savages with a computer ready to [removed word] on anyone not measuring up is probably (definitely) the reason why.

Clear and steady line skies
Clean free and easy educated seeing

P.s. is willful ignorance the de fact standard now ?? where any ludicrous and crazy ideas is floated, lies profligating endlessly, so that actual knowledge is swamped out by noise, dismissed outright and is fakeness now the edifice that we wish to build upon??

I have posted a radical insight into observing vis a vis ULTRA-transparency, a followed through post, this is critical new/lost knowledge and nada peep

Do you also hear, the crickets chirping while sad music plays in the background ??

I've nearly a THOUSAND helpful posts (without a mcg of vitriol) and I get suspended FOR EDUCATING ????¿¿¿¿
WTF ???

Seems it IS true that a prophet is not valued in his own home.

i guess i was mistaken about this place too

2 welcome posts !!

So thanks all for massively great welcome here !!! Sooo great 

If you dont want my wisdom thats cool i will take my fantastic toys home with me me and my EVOSTAR Divinity tube @1/15wavefront Peak to Valley or BETTER, to observe the Lords glory, without rancor and without  tiny intellects futzing the view.
Beauty eh!!

20mm T2 & 12Naglers
6.5Morph
6Ethos
4.5Delos
4TOE
3.3TOE

Eyepieces for an average tube, I think not.

If that offends you all I am CERTAINLY NOT apologetic about it.

Thanks for all the memories laughing sarcastically emoji

Over and....out

P.p.s. long live stupidity
May it always cause grief to the TRUTH

I believe I am done now. Thanks !!!

Edited July 29, 2022 by Cornelius Varley
Text size correected

[Zeta Reticulan]

Cool rant dude.

[Steve Ward]

I would say a warm welcome , but I'm guessing that after that ridiculous intro your stay here will be a short one  , as nobody on this good earth ( let alone this humble but happy forum )  is worthy of being in your majestic (self)-esteemed company ... 

Enjoy your visit , I'm sure your attitude will go down a storm here ... 🤣

[Knighty2112]

Nice to get things off your chest, yes?  

[neil phillips]

Scary. I agree with the above with that kind of attitude i dont think you will get on well no matter where you go or what you do.  But hey just incase you could mellow a lot. which i seriously doubt welcome for now. 

[CraigT82]

I think the point you’re trying to make is that linear features can be resolved much at a smaller size than the theoretical resolution limit of the objective? That’s pretty well accepted I think. 

People are free to express different views on this site and many do just that, but the general tone and language that are used whilst expressing those views plays a big part in the response they will generate and whether or not they are taken seriously and with respect.  If you find your posts to be ignored, dismissed or considered inflammatory on a regular basis then perhaps it’s not what you’re trying to say but the way you’re saying it. 

[Clarkey]

4 hours ago, A Scanner_darkly said:

2 welcome posts !!

Perhaps if your tone was a little less patronizing and condescending you would get a better response? 

In terms of what you are saying, whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, you can not accuse everyone with a different view to yourself as being ignorant savages. This forum openly encourages friendly discussion and debate. If someone has a completely different view to everyone else that is accepted - not condemned or ridiculed.

[Andy ES]

Stu must still be asleep ....🤣

[Knighty2112]

To balance things out a little I think that the majority of people on SGL have at some point posted up things/queries/questions etc that generate little if no response. Over the years there have been a number of times some of my posts didn’t garner any reply. This might be for various reasons why people might not respond, but regardless of how it may ‘smart’ when little or no response is forthcoming I think keeping any posts free as much as possible of any harsh comments because of this will generate a more positive response. Of course sometimes some comments could be intended as been sarcastic and made more in jest, but it is fine line sometimes between playful wording of things and someones interpretation of them.

Anyhow, I hope you don’t cast too much of a critical eye over us all on SGL for any lack of responses, but a belated welcome to you and I hope you stick it out a little longer before you pull the plug on us. 😀😉

[neil phillips]

M15 anyone ?

[SthBohemia]

Much more fun to discuss holes with our dearly beloved Wookie and toothache Dave59 than to contemplate test screen resolution patterns on an old tele(tubby)..

[900SL]

Are you a Goddist, by any chance?

[chiltonstar]

36 minutes ago, neil phillips said:

M15 anyone ?

Was this a possible destination for someone Neil? or maybe you were suggesting an alternative and much better resolution target for a scope than what was proposed?

Or maybe I misread it and you were referring to a well-known intelligence agency....

Chris

[Floater]

@A Scanner_darkly, go easy there, tiger. 😳

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Andy ES said:

Stu must still be asleep ....🤣

🤣🤣 Well that lot certainly woke me up!

I confess to being totally bemused by all this. I don’t see any ignored welcome posts or rejection of the OPs ideas. From what I’ve read, the theory on point vs line visibility makes absolute sense and matches my experiences.

@A Scanner_darkly, your posting style certainly seems a lot more similar to certain other forums than SGL; perhaps a less confrontational approach would be worth trying and would allow SGL member to benefit from your knowledge. Thanks

[ollypenrice]

My my, this individual is more abrasive than the previous record holder! He should think about inventing his own focus mask so they could lock antlers over which is best.  

🤣lly

[neil phillips]

2 hours ago, chiltonstar said:

Was this a possible destination for someone Neil? or maybe you were suggesting an alternative and much better resolution target for a scope than what was proposed?

Or maybe I misread it and you were referring to a well-known intelligence agency....

Chris

Just think money penny that's all. 

[tomato]

I would have thought an "ignorant savage with a computer" is more likely to hit you over the head with it rather than type an abusive reply.

[SthBohemia]

Now LISTEN closely all of 'yas'....

Ya musty understands that many peoples gets mega like upset when they find out their 'Happy Meal' did not come with a plastic TOY!

Thus there is an immediate response to BLAME innocent bystanders for their woes and havva knead jerky reaction, an accuse all and sundaes of being nasty and stupid! Gottit? 🙂

 

Treat life as a cosmic joke an it won't bite ya....

Edited July 29, 2022 by SthBohemia

[dweller25]

Has he gone ?

Shame

I wanted his opinion on what is best - Refractor or reflector….. 🤪🤪

I think It would have been entertaining 😂

Edited July 29, 2022 by dweller25

[ollypenrice]

13 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Has he gone ?

 

Yup, and he's taken his bat and ball with him.

Olly

[Stu]

You can all come out from under your observing tables now, it’s safe 🤣🤣

[JeremyS]

Wow, that was short but sharp 🤣

[Pixies]

He never got enough posts to have access to the For Sale section!

[badhex]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

Yup, and he's taken his bat and ball with him.

Olly

DIVINITY 1/15 WAVEFRONT bat and ball, Olly 😂