Two new purchases and a perfectly clear night

[badhex]

Hello all

Perfectly clear night last night so I used the opportunity to try out my new Gitzo Series 2 Traveller with my travel kit setup (scope is a ZS73) to test the improvement over the previous CF tripod I was using. I also recently acquired a TeleVue 2.5x Powermate, as high powers will be the real test of the tripod I was able to kill two birds with one stone. 

I started out with the most obvious choice for this test, Jupiter. After locating in the Lacerta 40mm ED (11x) I switched up quickly to the BCO 10mm + Powermate (108x). It was an exceptionally clear night with reasonably steady seeing. Jupiter's disc was very well defined, and the NEB and SEB were also very distinct. To push the limits a bit, I switched up to a BCO 6mm + Powermate (179x). Views were a bit soft but still surprisingly good. So far, as per its reputation the Powermate was completely invisible in the optical train, essentially giving me a 2.4mm ortho with a tiny 0.4mm exit pupil to match. I have found sub 0.5mm exit pupils to be a bit of a challenge in this scope, more so than my TS102 F7 for some reason, so not surprised that pushing beyond this becomes a bit less comfortable. Even at the highest power I'm ever likely to use this setup, I found the Gitzo to be more than capable and a significant upgrade on the previous TS-Optics CF tripod. It was not without some wobble when adjusting the axes or focus, but even deliberate, repeated taps to the scope settled down very quickly, 1-2 seconds.

Despite the moon still not showing, there was some annoying local LP behind me (try not to leave your bathroom light on all night please neighbours!) which was enough to cast a shadow, and so the lack of eyecup on the BCOs disturbed my viewing a little. 
I moved on to the Pentax 10mm partly to see the effect of a heavier / longer EP combination on the tripod and the effect of the Powermate on a much glass heavy EP, and partly to keep my eye shrouded better. 
Views were very crisp. Possibly better even than the ortho, thanks to the contrast from the eye shroud? Extra FOV was also very helpful, meaning extra time at the eyepiece before adjusting. Could also be the additional ER that the Pentax provides. 

Moving on to Saturn. Same routine of trying the BCO 10mm up against the Pentax. The Pentax again seemed to provide better views. 
No cassini division was evident, which could just be that the smaller aperture of this scope provides just not quite enough resolution to reveal the division under my conditions. I then realised I'd tracked Saturn through the EP for a while and not seen that some nearby scaffolding was partially block my view, and causing issues with resolution of detail. I waited a few minutes, and the view was much better once it was clear of the obstructions!
Still no cassini division visible, although possibly some atmospheric banding was now just about evident. 

Pretty happy with the stability of the tripod at high power and the performance of the Powermate, I decided on a quick bit of widefield viewing, with a thin crescent moon rising in the background. I couldn't recall if I'd viewed the Double Cluster with my APM 24mm UFF (18x) in this scope so I started there. The 24mm seems to always give very fine, sharp views and I find it an excellent eyepiece especially given how well priced it is. In this case I do think there is a touch too much background lightness in the city to fully appreciate the double cluster at this magnification so I switched up to the Morpheus 17.5mm (25x) and then to the Pentax 10mm (43x) to find the right balance. The view through the Pentax was super contrasty with really beautiful pin point stars, and although there was some atmospheric shimmer it added a certain twinkling aesthetic. At these lower powers, the Gitzo was very stable and steady, any small vibration damping out almost instantly. 

By this time the Moon was only a little higher and I was getting tired and cold, so it would have to do. I pretty much went straight in with the Pentax 10mm, and was stunned that there was enough earthshine to see the detail of mares on the unlit portion! Very surprising.
On the lit portion and terminator, there was lots of crater, mountain and rille detail even at this low alt. I tried the Powermate and found that the whole moon just fit in the field of view. I don't observe the moon that often so it was nice to change things up a bit, especially to see such strong earthshine. I've included a couple of shaky phone pics. Unfortunately the sharper photo didn't not capture the earthshine, but I also took one with the exposure blown out to give you an idea of the effect.

All in all very happy with both purchases and a decent observing session! 

Edited July 24, 2022 by badhex

[wookie1965]

Brilliant report loved the read glad you have sorted a really nice portable kit out. 

[badhex]

1 hour ago, wookie1965 said:

Brilliant report loved the read glad you have sorted a really nice portable kit out. 

Thanks Paul! It's a great kit. Have been slowly refining it for the last year, I think it's pretty much perfected now! 

[Victor Boesen]

Excellent Joe!! I too am considering a carbon fiber tripod for travelling, but I don't think I can justify the purchase just yet...

Good to hear the powermate seems to be doing well in your setup! I went with the TV 2X barlow instead, which, like you experienced, is also invisible in the optical train. However, I switched it out for the Baader VIP barlow due to the customizability of the VIP and the shorter nosepiece. A high quality barlow/focal extender is definitely a must have for high power double/planetary/lunar observing with these small capable APOs!

Looking forward for more experience with the Gitzo traveller from you 

Victor

[badhex]

11 hours ago, Victor Boesen said:

Excellent Joe!! I too am considering a carbon fiber tripod for travelling, but I don't think I can justify the purchase just yet...

Good to hear the powermate seems to be doing well in your setup! I went with the TV 2X barlow instead, which, like you experienced, is also invisible in the optical train. However, I switched it out for the Baader VIP barlow due to the customizability of the VIP and the shorter nosepiece. A high quality barlow/focal extender is definitely a must have for high power double/planetary/lunar observing with these small capable APOs!

Looking forward for more experience with the Gitzo traveller from you 

Victor

Cheers Victor! I'm taking it on holiday later this year so hopefully there should be some reports from that! The TS-Optics tripod I already have was used with an AZ-GTi on holidays last year. I'd say it's fine but obviously not to the same standard as the Gitzo, especially not for fully manual observing where you're frequently touching the mount, focuser etc. 

It's an expensive upgrade - three times as much as the TS - and the thought process is like "is it three times better?". Not sure I can say yes to that, but in this hobby the money spent on the last 25% of quality is often disproportionately high! 

I was torn between a Barlow and a Powermate. I also looked at the VIP after you talked about it in another post - it looks super interesting and I love how modular it is! I already have a GSO 2.5x Barlow which is pretty good but not perfect (again chasing that last 25%!) and so in the end I decided on the PM because I like the idea that the light cone is essentially unchanged apart from pure magnification. Obviously the downside is that short FL EPs with tight eye relief like the BCO don't gain any more comfortable viewing, but I figured if I really need that extra ER I can use the GSO. 

Looking forward to trying out the PM in my TS102 next 🙂

Edited July 25, 2022 by badhex

[Victor Boesen]

1 hour ago, badhex said:

Cheers Victor! I'm taking it on holiday later this year so hopefully there should be some reports from that! The TS-Optics tripod I already have was used with an AZ-GTi on holidays last year. I'd say it's fine but obviously not to the same standard as the Gitzo, especially not for fully manual observing where you're frequently touching the mount, focuser etc. 

It's an expensive upgrade - three times as much as the TS - and the thought process is like "is it three times better?". Not sure I can say yes to that, but in this hobby the money spent on the last 25% of quality is often disproportionately high! 

I was torn between a Barlow and a Powermate. I also looked at the VIP after you talked about it in another post - it looks super interesting and I love how modular it is! I already have a GSO 2.5x Barlow which is pretty good but not perfect (again chasing that last 25%!) and so in the end I decided on the PM because I like the idea that the light cone is essentially unchanged apart from pure magnification. Obviously the downside is that short FL EPs with tight eye relief like the BCO don't gain any more comfortable viewing, but I figured if I really need that extra ER I can use the GSO. 

Looking forward to trying out the PM in my TS102 next 🙂

I think I'm very similar minded when it comes to chasing those last 25% or even 5 to 10%! Would rather spend some more on high quality equipment  I have been eyeballing the Innorel RT80C tripod from amazon. Not a lot of reviews out there from people using it for astro, but the generel opinion among photographers seems positive. I still use my manfrotto tripod from time to time with my AZT6 and Evostar 72 which is a nice setup. Ideally I'd hope the Innorel could carry my Castor II with the 102mm F7, but I doubt it...

Victor

[badhex]

1 hour ago, Victor Boesen said:

I think I'm very similar minded when it comes to chasing those last 25% or even 5 to 10%! Would rather spend some more on high quality equipment  I have been eyeballing the Innorel RT80C tripod from amazon. Not a lot of reviews out there from people using it for astro, but the generel opinion among photographers seems positive. I still use my manfrotto tripod from time to time with my AZT6 and Evostar 72 which is a nice setup. Ideally I'd hope the Innorel could carry my Castor II with the 102mm F7, but I doubt it...

Victor

Yes, I was being generous with the 25% thing - I usually call it the "rule of the last 5%" which is basically where all your money goes! I'm not really an audiophile but that's another classic example of the same thing.

RE the Innorel, yes I've seen quite a few mentions of that around. I can't remember off the top of my head who it was but someone said they got an Innorel and were wondering if the Gitzo would have been better, but it's a vastly more expensive choice!

On travelling, TBH if I can manage it I'd like to take the Gitzo 5 with me, and have done on domestic trips, but the Gitzo 2 Traveller is much smaller at ~45cm packed which means it fits on the side of my travel kit backpack, hence my eventual decision to get it.

Edited July 25, 2022 by badhex

[Victor Boesen]

19 minutes ago, badhex said:

On travelling, TBH if I can manage it I'd like to take the Gitzo 5 with me, and have done on domestic trips, but the Gitzo 2 Traveller is much at ~45cm packed which means it fits on the side of my travel kit backpack, hence my eventual decision to get it.

Perfectly understand this. Using the Gitzo 5 with your zenithstar is perhaps a little overkill 

21 minutes ago, badhex said:

RE the Innorel, yes I've seen quite a few mentions of that around. I can't remember off the top of my head who it was but someone said they got an Innorel and were wondering if the Gitzo would have been better, but it's a vastly more expensive choice!

Yup There is a RT90 version of the tripod I linked to as well. That is often compared to the Gitzo, but from what I've read the Gitzo is still the better choice if you like perfection! With that said, I think the RT90 or a Gitzo would probably be too large/overkill for me as I'd probably just use the Skywatcher steel tripod in that case!

Victor

[badhex]

12 minutes ago, Victor Boesen said:

Perfectly understand this. Using the Gitzo 5 with your zenithstar is perhaps a little overkill 

Yup There is a RT90 version of the tripod I linked to as well. That is often compared to the Gitzo, but from what I've read the Gitzo is still the better choice if you like perfection! With that said, I think the RT90 or a Gitzo would probably be too large/overkill for me as I'd probably just use the Skywatcher steel tripod in that case!

Victor

Overkill it is, but crikey is it stable! 😂💪

 

[ED Splitter]

Great write up. What mount set up are you using? I’m after a dark sky rig as a project, not as luxurious as this scope wise but I am a bit stuck on mounts. 
 

thanks. 

[badhex]

9 hours ago, ED Splitter said:

Great write up. What mount set up are you using? I’m after a dark sky rig as a project, not as luxurious as this scope wise but I am a bit stuck on mounts. 
 

thanks. 

Hi @ED Splitter (is that like Ed Banger? 😅)

I have a choice of two mounts for this setup. 

I was initially using an AZ-GTi which is around 1kg with a replacement ADM saddle (the original one is just a single screw type, which I'm not a fan of). It's pretty reasonably priced for a goto mount and very compact. I have recently been favouring fully manual observing with  the Scopetech Mount Zero (about 1.5kg with replacment saddle), so I can take either with me in the kit depending what I want to use. Both are great mounts for their size and type, but each has a couple of foibles.

I haven't really experienced many issues with the AZ-GTi but some have had problems with it being a bit finicky with power sources or sometimes issues with random slewing. You also need a power source (it takes 8x AA batteries or an external 12v DC) and a phone to control it. 

The Zero is a bit picky on balance as is the nature of the type of mount, but once you've figured out the balance point it's fantastic. It's also quite expensive.

Here is the travel kit packed down with the AZ-GTi, although these pictures show my older tripod and not the Gitzo. I normally wrap the mount and diagonal in soft cloth bags designed for camera equipment so I can stow spare bits and bobs like the 1.25" adapter in the same section and not have stuff floating about and bashing together. If I want to take the Zero, the AZ-GTi comes out and the Zero goes in its place. Annoyingly the section is not quite large enough to have the Zero stowed in travel configuration so I wrap the larger arm in the cloth bag, then just put the smaller arm with it in the same section. 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by badhex

[wookie1965]

On 25/07/2022 at 11:03, badhex said:

Overkill it is, but crikey is it stable! 😂💪

 

Now this is a lovely portable set up, love the tripod I'm thinking of getting a carbon fibre tripod and a AZ head for my Tal so I can carry it anywhere this has given me a few ideas.

Really nice set up Joe.

[badhex]

51 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

Now this is a lovely portable set up, love the tripod I'm thinking of getting a carbon fibre tripod and a AZ head for my Tal so I can carry it anywhere this has given me a few ideas.

Really nice set up Joe.

Thanks Paul. The tripod in this night photo is the Gitzo 5 series which incredibly sturdy but a bit less portable than the Series 2 Traveller, it needs to go in a tripod bag or similar for travelling as it's about 60cm when fully packed so I can't fit it on the backpack. It's only 2.5kg though, so even if it's in a separate tripod bag it's very easy to take with you. In the night photo above, I travelled to a location outside of Berlin where I stayed for a week and took everything on public transport (one hour on a packed train, 30 mins on a bus, 15 mins walking). I had the backpack on my back, a medium-sized wheeled eastpak suitcase for my main luggage and I strapped the tripod bag with the Gitzo onto the suitcase with couple of bungee cords so I had a free arm.

[wookie1965]

Now that sounds brilliant really portable. 

Best Wishes 

Paul