AZ5 on a cheap camera tripod.

[jamesc96]

Hi, 

New here so hello to everyone :)

I'm wondering if it is the weight of aluminum tripods that make them unstable or simply the design itself?

I am asking because I own a cheap camera tripod that allows the adding of additional weight via a hook underneath. I am getting a skywatcher heritage 150p very soon and looking to get an AZ5 (mount only). My thinking is the tripod normally supplied with that mount may be no better than my own that can be weighted.

I have two main considerations.

1) Weight/portability as I will be hiking with the setup. My tripod is very light and compact.

2) $$$ (this is not as important as weight or performance though)

Finally, the tripod looks to have a 1/4" screw. Am I correct in assuming I can buy a 3/8 adapter and an AZ5 will fit?

 

Thanks!

 

[Carbon Brush]

Weighting a tripod will help prevent it getting knocked over in the dark.
But if the legs and frame are made of bendy and twistable material, it won't help much.

Something to remember about how much flex you can tolerate on a tripod.
0.5deg movement is your scope going one side of the full moon, to the other. Or 30 Jupiter diameters.
Just think about a gentle twist on a focusser, or accidental touch when viewing.

This is why we spend on big rigid tripods.

Sorry - forgot. Welcome to SGL. A very friendly and helpful astro forum.

HTH, David.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Carbon Brush

[jjohnson3803]

I have an AZ5 on a cheap photo tripod (Benro something or other).  It works fine with lighter scopes, but experience indicates the max scope weight should be no more than 3.6 kg.  I haven't used a hanging weight often, but I do have a 5 pound plate weight I've used a few times which helps with stability a bit.

50mm f5 RACI finder converted to a wide-field scope is just fine, as is an ST80 refractor with an upgraded 2-speed focuser.  ST120 is over the limit and I'd be fearful of trying my f7 102ED on it.

There are inexpensive 1/4 to 3/8 adapters available.

I notice your pod has a spreader on it, which I would think would help with stability as long as you don't overload it.

Edited July 23, 2022 by jjohnson3803

[jamesc96]

9 hours ago, jjohnson3803 said:

I have an AZ5 on a cheap photo tripod (Benro something or other).  It works fine with lighter scopes, but experience indicates the max scope weight should be no more than 3.6 kg.  I haven't used a hanging weight often, but I do have a 5 pound plate weight I've used a few times which helps with stability a bit.

50mm f5 RACI finder converted to a wide-field scope is just fine, as is an ST80 refractor with an upgraded 2-speed focuser.  ST120 is over the limit and I'd be fearful of trying my f7 102ED on it.

There are inexpensive 1/4 to 3/8 adapters available.

I notice your pod has a spreader on it, which I would think would help with stability as long as you don't overload it.

The ota weight of the heritage is already 3.6kg so it will probably be too heavy based on what you've said.

I might try it anyway and see how it goes since I will likely be buying the SW steel tripod and az5 separately. Ill just hold off on the tripod until I've tested the setup.

Thanks!

[jamesc96]

22 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

Weighting a tripod will help prevent it getting knocked over in the dark.
But if the legs and frame are made of bendy and twistable material, it won't help much.

Something to remember about how much flex you can tolerate on a tripod.
0.5deg movement is your scope going one side of the full moon, to the other. Or 30 Jupiter diameters.
Just think about a gentle twist on a focusser, or accidental touch when viewing.

This is why we spend on big rigid tripods.

Sorry - forgot. Welcome to SGL. A very friendly and helpful astro forum.

HTH, David.

I've decided to test out the cheaper setup but I feel like you will be correct and I won't have a great time, especially because I want to spend some time on planetary views with higher mags

Better to lug a heavy tripod and have good results than to have an easy hike but be disappointed later I'm sure.

[paulastro]

Of course there's othing to stop you having two tripods for the same mount.  I have several tripods and four altaz mounts (AZ4, Manfrotto 393, Scopetech Zero, and a Takahashi altaz.  

Which combination depends on what scope I'm using, if I'm observing at home,  means of travel and what I will be observing - for deep sky and general sweeping  you dont generally have to use higher powers so often.

Of course I've bought these tripods/mounts over a long period, and I'm not suggesting you go out and buy several mounts and tripods.  However you could have two tripods for your mount, one lighter for traveling and a more substantial mount when you're not.   Buy the one you think will be most useful for how you observe first of all, and buy a second one when funds allow.

 

[StarryEyed]

Youll just have to compare them for yourself. If your hiking portability is a major consideration. But in either case keeping the legs as short as possible will help. When your observing most important is to remember to enjoy the moment for what it is and forget about the mount and telescope they can always be better but never perfect. 

[Ratlet]

If you need to upgrade, you might want to look at either artcise or innorel tripod.  These are relatively light weight carbon fibre tripods and are quite well regarded for a low cost.  There are a few users of the artcise as90c on here.

I have an innorel nt364c which has a 20kg load rating which I use with a 130pds and az5.  It does not exhibit much shake and is improved by hanging a weight of the hook.  The mount cost £150 from AliExpress and came with some nifty freebies like a ballhead and a handle leveler thing.

I've mostly been doing solar with it with an 8mm eyepiece although I did try it barlowed and the limiting factor there was the seeing rather than vibration.

[LaurenceT]

For my home based grab and go I mount an Orion 80ED on my AZ5 mount. The total weight of the scope with all the bits on comes to 3.65 kg. The mount handles the scope perfectly although there is some backlash that I can't seem to cure. I have used it on both on the Skywatcher tripod :

Sky-Watcher Tripod for Star Adventurer | First Light Optics which is the tripod sold with the AZ5

and also my Manfrotto 055CXPRO3:

Manfrotto 055CXPRO3 | Cameralabs which I have had many years and used for photography

with both I noticed a degree of shake when viewing through the eyepiece which I found unacceptable. However I didn't feel that either of them felt unstable with the mount in place unless I raised the central column which I would advise against. In order to make them both more stable for viewing I bought one of these:

 Neewer® Black Heavy Duty Photographic Studio Video SandBag for Gitzo, Manfrotto, Didea and Benro Series Stands and Other Universal Light Stands, Boom Stand and Tripod (2): Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

which are out of stock at Amazon but may be available elsewhere, together with this:

Amazon Basics cast-iron kettlebell 4kg : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

which made a huge difference, I appreciate that is not an option for travel.

[jamesc96]

5 hours ago, LaurenceT said:

For my home based grab and go I mount an Orion 80ED on my AZ5 mount. The total weight of the scope with all the bits on comes to 3.65 kg. The mount handles the scope perfectly although there is some backlash that I can't seem to cure. I have used it on both on the Skywatcher tripod :

Sky-Watcher Tripod for Star Adventurer | First Light Optics which is the tripod sold with the AZ5

and also my Manfrotto 055CXPRO3:

Manfrotto 055CXPRO3 | Cameralabs which I have had many years and used for photography

with both I noticed a degree of shake when viewing through the eyepiece which I found unacceptable. However I didn't feel that either of them felt unstable with the mount in place unless I raised the central column which I would advise against. In order to make them both more stable for viewing I bought one of these:

 Neewer® Black Heavy Duty Photographic Studio Video SandBag for Gitzo, Manfrotto, Didea and Benro Series Stands and Other Universal Light Stands, Boom Stand and Tripod (2): Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

which are out of stock at Amazon but may be available elsewhere, together with this:

Amazon Basics cast-iron kettlebell 4kg : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

which made a huge difference, I appreciate that is not an option for travel.

I plan on being seated on a not-so-tall camping chair while observing so this gives me hope that the cheap option will work. The central column will definitely not be raised and the legs barley extended like StarryEyed said would help. Plus I already have 10kg+ worth of weight (my camping pack) that can be added to the hook or separator.

Everything is ordered now and I'll give an update on how I get on in a few weeks!

[jamesc96]

An update on this for anyone who might need it in the future.

Ive only tested in daytime so far due to weather but I've noticed that there is considerable flex in the tripod legs when doing anything with the scope (focusing/moving). The scope will wobble fairly aggressively for about 5 seconds at 150x.

This does not seem to be a issue with the tripod weight as the feet do not move, but simply flex in the cheap tripod legs themselves. 

Once a target is located and adequate focus is found (this part is difficult due to the wobble), I can use the slo-mo controls and the problem is reduced significantly. Maybe 2-3 seconds wobble and not nearly as violent. With practice maybe even less.

I believe the issue is manageable and is worth the portability I've gained. However I would DEFINITELY not recommend a similar setup without slo-mo as it was the lifesaver here. I'm very very glad I did not go for the AZ4.

I will update again as soon as I get a chance to track Jupiter or Saturn!

[jamesc96]

Update 

I would not recommend a cheap tripod for this setup. It is far too unstable and flexible to be used. The heritage 150p + az5 is too heavy. Unusable once any breeze picks up (never ending wobbles). The vibrations from using the slo-motion controls weren't awful though. Maybe on an perfect night it would be passable but how many of those are there?

I've now forgotten about portability and have bought a skywatcher steel tripod and will just have to deal with the size/weight. Maybe I'll cut the legs down a bit in future if I find that it is steady enough already to risk doing that.

[Mandy D]

On 10/08/2022 at 17:15, jamesc96 said:

I've now forgotten about portability and have bought a skywatcher steel tripod and will just have to deal with the size/weight. Maybe I'll cut the legs down a bit in future if I find that it is steady enough already to risk doing that.

I bought a Skywatcher tripod with the 2 inch legs and made an adapter to take a tripod head, so I can also mount my camera directly on it.

[jjohnson3803]

Just a note on stability - make sure whatever mount you use is completely snugged down onto the tripod.  I was having some shakes with my ScopeTech Zero on a Manfrotto 475B which was quite irritating.  Turns out my Zero was not fully screwed onto the tripod because the az axis is designed to slip a bit - it wasn't much of a gap, but it was enough to cause some extra wobble with my 102ED.

As an aside - I thought my Twilight-1 tripod was identical to the SW above, but my pod only has 1.5-inch legs.  

Edited August 17, 2022 by jjohnson3803