3D Printer - Couple of points

[StuartJPP]

I hadn't used my Creality Ender 3 V2 for quite a few months, in fact probably well over a year. It had been sat in the garage just covered with a cloth (I know, I was intending to store it a bit better but never got around to it). Anyway it was sitting there with about 1/10th of a spool of PLA on it.

 

First thing - Would the PLA have absorbed so much moisture so as to be unusable? - No, it printed just fine, no pops, whistles or any little "explosions" like they show on YouTube. Maybe I just got lucky or maybe they soaked their PLA in the bath before filming.

 

Second thing - I thought I was a bit rusty but I just couldn't get the print to stick to the bed. Everything seemed fine, nozzle temperature and bed temperature was where it used to be. The bed was levelled and cleaned as I had always done. The bed is the glass type with the mottled/dotted texture. I had never really had problems with bed adhesion, though admittedly the last few times I used it, it wasn't as good as when I first got the printer but still wasn't an issue. I tried quite a few prints, cleaning between each, however each one lifted after a couple of layers. After thinking that maybe the PLA was indeed "off", I was about to change the spool but then I noticed a stick of Pritt Stick (original).

Dabbed it on, looked like a mess, but thought that I might as well try it, what have I got to lose?

Worked like a bomb. Didn't even have to clean the bed for a 2nd and 3rd print.

Am I a convert? Maybe, definitely worked well and was easy to clean off with just some water and finished with IPA, ready until I print again in another year's time 🤣

 

Just to be clear, I'm not claiming the Pritt Stick is my idea, the reason I had it on the shelf is because I had heard good things about it so had it "Just In Case".

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by StuartJPP

[Dr_Ju_ju]

In my experience PLA/PETG doesn't suffer much from being opened & left lying around, and even ABS, which is supposedly more touchy, doesn't really suffer much.....   

As for bed adhesion, firstly do a basic mechanics tune-up, then first layer tune-up.....  For the bed surface itself, clean with clean water & lightly clean the surface with a standard kitchen scourer. & dry off with paper kitchen towels.... 

[Alien 13]

Never had a problem with leaving PLA lying around either in fact quite the opposite, some fresh out the bag stuff (especially wood, carbon) just wont print very well at all and is prone to breaking on the reel so I leave them open at least a week now.

Alan

Edited July 22, 2022 by Alien 13

[StuartJPP]

2 hours ago, Alien 13 said:

Never had a problem with leaving PLA lying around either in fact quite the opposite, some fresh out the bag stuff (especially wood, carbon) just wont print very well at all and is prone to breaking on the reel so I leave them open at least a week now.

Alan

Interesting Alan....

The original sample PLA that I got with the printer was terrible, popping and spluttering all over the place. I put it down to it not being in a sealed bag, just a jiffy bag and judging from what I read online and watched on YouTube. Must have just been cheap rubbish filament of unknown origin.

Me thinks that a lot of the content on YouTube is a bit of....well let's say.....horseradish.....to sell views.

I know that the spool on the printer was exposed to moisture because it was in the garage for a year through all seasons and the label is all crinkly like it has been damp but yet still completely usable.

If you watch any video on YouTube you will see how much they go on about storage of PLA in dehumidifier tubs etc. Seems a complete waste to me, maybe they should just buy some decent filament instead (my filament of choice is just a fairly basic one from Amazon).

[adyj1]

On 21/07/2022 at 14:48, StuartJPP said:

Second thing - I thought I was a bit rusty but I just couldn't get the print to stick to the bed.

One thing to ask is did you check your z-offset? (the distance between the nozzle and the bed when it thinks it is at 0) that's the most frequent reason for my failed adhesion on a previously-working setup, esp if I've moved anything... 

[Stuart1971]

I have never had any adhesion issues, I always have Z offset at 0 (where it should be) and bed level with a thin piece of paper, then wash the bed with soapy water, dry and give a good clean with IPA, never had to resort to any of these Pritt stick methods or anything like that, I do this about every 3 or 4 prints but do wipe down with IPA between each print, bed seems to stay level for a good while….👍🏼

[Alien 13]

2 hours ago, StuartJPP said:

If you watch any video on YouTube you will see how much they go on about storage of PLA in dehumidifier tubs etc. Seems a complete waste to me, maybe they should just buy some decent filament instead (my filament of choice is just a fairly basic one from Amazon).

I use a lot of the Amazon basics brand PLA, running some of their black PLA plus right now, my other favorite is JAYO for exotic stuff like wood filled PLA and Carbon fibre etc.

Alan

[Dave_D]

My previous spool of YOYI PLA was sat connected to my printer for best part of 5 months before i finished it... printed as good as when it was opened

[saac]

I think there are a lot of urban myths concerning 3d printer dos and don't - filament absorbing moisture is one of them. Like you, I've had spool of PLA sat on an ender 5 for over a year and it still prints without a flaw. I guess the hydroscopic fascination is the 3d printing world version of  the essential 1 cubic metre reinforced concrete base for a telescope pier routine. And, as for the most essential upgrades, auto bed levelling, direct drive, silent motherboard, yeah right!

Jim 

Edited July 22, 2022 by saac

[vlaiv]

9 minutes ago, saac said:

And as for the most essential upgrades, auto bed levelling, direct drive, silent motherboard, yeah right!

I've found auto bed leveling to be very very very useful feature (I'd call it essential upgrade).

It helped me diagnose issues with z-axis. If you can have repeatable measurements and somewhat warped bed - then you can create mesh and see what is down to tilt (x axis gantry tilting due to z-axis issues) and what is down to warping of the bed.

It also helps a lot with z-offset and getting that first layer just right.

I still do manual bed tramming - and it helps with that as well - it checks all corners and reports measured heights / offsets - adjusting wheels after that is really easy - you get visual feedback on how much each needs to be adjusted.

[Chriske]

On 21/07/2022 at 18:05, Dr_Ju_ju said:

In my experience PLA/PETG doesn't suffer much from being opened & left lying around, and even ABS, which is supposedly more touchy, doesn't really suffer much.....  

+1

[Alien 13]

4 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I've found auto bed leveling to be very very very useful feature (I'd call it essential upgrade).

It helped me diagnose issues with z-axis. If you can have repeatable measurements and somewhat warped bed - then you can create mesh and see what is down to tilt (x axis gantry tilting due to z-axis issues) and what is down to warping of the bed.

It also helps a lot with z-offset and getting that first layer just right.

I still do manual bed tramming - and it helps with that as well - it checks all corners and reports measured heights / offsets - adjusting wheels after that is really easy - you get visual feedback on how much each needs to be adjusted.

I would agree with this, have been printing for months now without any adjustments to the bed apart from some minor tweaking to the Z offset with some  filament types which can be done as it prints.

Alan

[Chriske]

I do understand why people need bed levelling, but when the printer is not moved from its location  there's no need to correct bed levelling.

[vlaiv]

3 minutes ago, Chriske said:

I do understand why people need bed levelling, but when the printer is not moved from its location  there's no need to correct bed levelling.

I guess that this depends on quality of printer itself.

For something that is not of very high quality, constant thermal cycling will quickly throw things out of whack.

I've found that bed level changes by couple tens of microns between room temperature and 60C that I use for PLA.

[Stuart1971]

12 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I would agree with this, have been printing for months now without any adjustments to the bed apart from some minor tweaking to the Z offset with some  filament types which can be done as it prints.

Alan

Why tweak the Z offset, just re level the bed and leave the offset well alone, I really don’t understand why anyone needs to adjust the  Z offset…..it’s a pointless setting if all else is set properly….🤔🤔

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, Stuart1971 said:

Why tweak the Z offset, just re level the bed and leave the offset well alone, I really don’t understand why anyone needs to adjust the  Z offset…..it’s a pointless setting if all else is set properly….🤔🤔

I tweak it after flow calibration for example.

Granted, very new to all of this, but I did have to do multiple flow calibrations to date. Once because I just got the printer, next time because I changed position of filament spool and changed tubing (much smoother extruder movement after that). Third time because I messed up calculations - I measured 1.1 flow multiplier instead of 0.9 (wrong direction for those 10%).

I guess, that using different filament will require similar tuning to be done as well. As will changing the nozzle once this one needs changing, or perhaps when I upgrade to bi metal head break because I want to print some ASA and so on.

It is not day to day activity but it happens ...

[Stuart1971]

8 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I tweak it after flow calibration for example.

Granted, very new to all of this, but I did have to do multiple flow calibrations to date. Once because I just got the printer, next time because I changed position of filament spool and changed tubing (much smoother extruder movement after that). Third time because I messed up calculations - I measured 1.1 flow multiplier instead of 0.9 (wrong direction for those 10%).

I guess, that using different filament will require similar tuning to be done as well. As will changing the nozzle once this one needs changing, or perhaps when I upgrade to bi metal head break because I want to print some ASA and so on.

It is not day to day activity but it happens ...

None of that requires the Z offset to be touched, just re level the bed….

[adyj1]

Just now, Stuart1971 said:

None of that requires the Z offset to be touched, just re level the bed….

Do you have an auto bed levelling device like a bltouch? 

[Alien 13]

34 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Why tweak the Z offset, just re level the bed and leave the offset well alone, I really don’t understand why anyone needs to adjust the  Z offset…..it’s a pointless setting if all else is set properly….🤔🤔

Simple answer is because it can be done on the fly while its printing if you notice that the first layer looks not quite correct, usually catch this while the cura profile is printing its first line and boundary box, manually adjusting the bed itself would have no effect on this as the auto bed leveling routine would just compensate for the changes and still leave the z offset incorrect. With me having a magnetic flexible bed that is lifted to peel off parts also means that the z offset can change slightly.

Alan

Edited July 22, 2022 by Alien 13

[vlaiv]

3 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

None of that requires the Z offset to be touched, just re level the bed….

With device for auto bed level - like probe attached next to print head - z offset is how you control things.

ABL device always determines absolute bed position regardless of how you level it (regular z end stop is not used any more).

There is some distance between tip of ABL probe and where you want your nozzle to be once print starts. This will determine distance between nozzle and bed and therefore thickness of first layer depending on amount of filament extruded.

[saac]

I've only ever levelled the bed manually, usually check it after 3 or 4 prints. No issues so far, I must be lucky and have a relatively flat bed.  

Jim 

[Alien 13]

9 minutes ago, saac said:

I've only ever levelled the bed manually, usually check it after 3 or 4 prints. No issues so far, I must be lucky and have a relatively flat bed.  

Jim 

Manual bed leveling can last for ages more so if the springs are upgraded, before I opted for a CR touch auto leveling I rarely had to adjust mine and now never but I spent a lot of time to get it perfect before the swap.

Alan 

[saac]

1 minute ago, Alien 13 said:

Manual bed leveling can last for ages more so if the springs are upgraded, before I opted for a CR touch auto leveling I rarely had to adjust mine and now never but I spent a lot of time to get it perfect before the swap.

Alan 

Mine is an Ender 5 Alan; I've been impressed with the build quality from the get go with it.  The bed springs do look stiff enough and they rarely need much adjustment. I use a feeler gauge to check level and generally on a pre warmed bed if I remember.  The ender 5 has an auto level built in but I think I have only ever used it once. My printer sits in the garage and doesn't get moved so that certainly helps, and I then not to move the bed by hand either.  The only mod I'm considering is to build an enclosure around it.  

Jim 

[saac]

I'm lusting after this at the moment, resisting it so far; maybe if the price comes down in a year or two!

Jim 

 

https://technologyoutlet.co.uk/products/refurbished-creality-3d-cr-5-pro-h-high-temp-extruder-3d-printer?variant=39978074144847&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlemWBhDUARIsAFp1rLURWiAzky4a7JRDACJPKdfpFkkJcIpuKLKU-iA3VgDZwste-UpZ_yAaAlVuEALw_wcB

[Alien 13]

23 minutes ago, saac said:

Mine is an Ender 5 Alan; I've been impressed with the build quality from the get go with it.  The bed springs do look stiff enough and they rarely need much adjustment. I use a feeler gauge to check level and generally on a pre warmed bed if I remember.  The ender 5 has an auto level built in but I think I have only ever used it once. My printer sits in the garage and doesn't get moved so that certainly helps, and I then not to move the bed by hand either.  The only mod I'm considering is to build an enclosure around it.  

Jim 

No idea what you would call mine now, started life as an ender 3 pro but have done quite a few upgrades like 4.2.7 motherboard running Jyers UI firmware/dual z axis motors/all metal extruder/ CR touch/ Capricorn bowden tubing/colour screen/ xy adjusters/led lighting/adjustable height dampening feet plus lots of other DIY bits and it prints reliably.

Alan