New stellalyra dobsonian focus tube problem

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, Mike Q said:

If you are wanting instructions you can go to orion's website and find the skyline 8 inch.  There should be a down load there for the manual.    To my knowledge the only difference is the name on the side of the OTA

Yep, here's the link.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Louis D said:

Yep, here's the link.

Thanks, I was going to grab it for him and got side tracked.

[FLO]

On 16/07/2022 at 17:11, col said:

Iv tried phoning FLO but its answer machine, and tried emailing but it's an auto email. 

So am I stuck with a faulty scope until Monday, or is there a number where I could actually talk to a human. 

Obviously I'm a little upset as that's the planned astro weekend  lost now, and it seems they only open Monday to Friday. 

In our defence - our open times (Mon-Fri 9.30-4.30) can be found at our Contact Us page and the focuser wasn't faulty. 

You emailed us Saturday 4:39pm. Normally we would reply when we reopen Monday but a colleague was doing some email housekeeping so saw and replied to your email same-day 7:10pm.  We like to help. 

On 17/07/2022 at 21:04, Louis D said:

I just have to ask why the focuser tension wasn't adjusted properly at the factory.  Have they simply given up on imparting a good customer experience out of the box?

It was. But it had loosened during its journey from Taiwan to UK. This is not unusual and is easily solved (a quick tweak of the focuser tension adjustment screw). 

HTH, 

Steve 

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, FLO said:

It was. But it had loosened during its journey from Taiwan to UK. This is not unusual and is easily solved (a quick tweak of the focuser tension adjustment screw). 

In the OP's defense, where in the included instructions did it mention this crucial adjustment as an important check, and how to perform it if it is such a common occurrence?

As a practicing engineer of many years myself, this episode would cause our group to perform a root cause failure analysis, call for suggestions to correct it, come to a consensus on the best way forward, and then put an action plan in place to prevent recurrence.

[col]

8 hours ago, FLO said:

In our defence - our open times (Mon-Fri 9.30-4.30) can be found at our Contact Us page and the focuser wasn't faulty. 

You emailed us Saturday 4:39pm. Normally we would reply when we reopen Monday but a colleague was doing some email housekeeping so saw and replied to your email same-day 7:10pm.  We like to help. 

It was. But it had loosened during its journey from Taiwan to UK. This is not unusual and is easily solved (a quick tweak of the focuser tension adjustment screw). 

HTH, 

Steve 

Hi Steve

I wrongly assumed you were open saturday, and  my delivery arrived as long as it takes to open the packaging and start to look at the contents before I emailed is why my email was at that time. 

It had taken me a little while not believing the focus tube was loose and rattling in the scope even when i turned the focus nobs. my mind was trying to figure it out, and i called on the help of this forum in desperation thinking i had a faulty scope.

luckily the advice i got on here sorted the problem and a very worrying time. A simple bit of paper explaining this unheard of to me focus tube arrangement to make it usable, would have avoided any misunderstandings on my part.

you say its not unusual and a quick tweek is all thats needed. If id known this it would have been done. 

My example is two plus two is simple, but only if you know what two is.

Also i expected collimation to be near enough, but it seems it was well out. the centre circle of the primary was on the outer edge of  the field of view in the eyepeice  but i didnt twig this until the next day after i had been dissapointed with saturn on saturday night. Again down to my ignorance and trust of the postal system.

it was the next day i spent time collimating and discovered how far out it was.

Not your fault , but i think  some sort of paper instructions isnt a costly thing  and would save a lot of this sort of experience with others that havent come across this type of focus tube set up either.

Ill be able to look up, hopefully clouds permitting, from the weekend and retry what is a bit better collimated scope.

My previous experience  with you was exemplary, and the only thing that has let you down on this occasion, in my opinion, is assuming there are no people out there ignorant to a focus tube set up like this one.

The simple solution is only simple when you know it, and i would like to think a sheet with even just the focus screw issue is added to this  scope.

My ignorance is to blame for what happened, but Im sure i cant be the only one that didnt know about the simply tightening the screw up solution.

And thanks very much guys, Iv bookmarked the instructions.

col.

[col]

 I'v adjusted the secondary mirror some more. Other than a minor tweek to centralise the primary mirror I'm happy with it now. 

And strangely enough the clouds are in for the night. 

Thanks again for all your help guys, I'v learned a little more this last few days. 

[wookie1965]

Yes that looks good just a minor tweak to the primary and it should be spot on. I would check it each time you take it out this can easily be accomplished with a Cheshire and a red light point the red light at the shiny surface of the Cheshire and look through the hole. 

As you have adjusted the secondary that should not need any adjustment again unless you bang or drop the ota all that will be needed is a tweak to the primary. 

Clear Skies 

Paul 

[Guest]

At some point you may wish to change the secondary adjustment screws to thumb screws.  I personally find them far superior to using a screw driver to adjust it.  The other thing to take note of are the springs for the primary.  You may wish to replace them with a better spring, this usually helps in maintaining collimation.  The last thing you may wish to do is make sure you check every screw on the tube.  Just make sure everything is snugged up nicely.  

[col]

I hadn't thought of every screw on the tube, thanks Mike Q I'll do that tomorrow. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, col said:

I hadn't thought of every screw on the tube, thanks Mike Q I'll do that tomorrow. 

Just snug, they don't need to have the kabosh put on them.  Right to tighten, left to loosen.  Tight is right, too tight is broke.

Basically it is anything that can be turned, including the focuser mounting screws, finder saddle screws,  the screws that hold the spider in place and mirror cell.  When I got my scope, Orion Skyline, I found a half dozen screws were loose.  No biggie, it happens.  It traveled almost 2400 miles to get to me 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Mike Q

[col]

13 hours ago, Mike Q said:

Just snug, they don't need to have the kabosh put on them.  Right to tighten, left to loosen.  Tight is right, too tight is broke.

Basically it is anything that can be turned, including the focuser mounting screws and the screws that hold the spider in place.  When I got my scope, Orion Skyline, I found a half dozen screws were loose.  No biggie, it happens.  It traveled almost 2400 miles to get to me 

All is fine Mike Q, cheers for that, only problem, well not really a problem just a surprise. One of the two thumb screws on the extender that was left out so it would fit in its box was difficult to screw in at first, it seemed the inner thread hadn't been tapped properly so needed working in and out a bit at a time before it would screw fully in. I did check for cross threading which it wasn't, so just needed working in and out until it worked stiffly but OK. 

Otherwise up to now I'v not found any problems. 

 

[col]

Just in from first light proper which gave me a nice view of jupiter. I could make three bands out nicely, but it was very bright so was similar to looking at a full moon in that the brightness washed things out a bit. 

Would a moon filter help with that? I'll give that a try next time. 

What was a surprise was how difficult it was to find jupiter in the eye peice, but that's something I'll no doubt get better at. 

Anyway I went between my 25, 10 and the 9 supplied eyepiece with the scope. 

All performed well, and the two speed focuser is a godsend, makes it easier to get the best focus. 

All in all I'm very happy with what I saw tonight, cloud stopped me looking at saturn and I was going to take a look at m31 but again cloud had other ideas. 

The time flew, I was out at 12 ish and came in at just before three only looking at jupiter. An enjoyable few hours which I'm hoping to do again soon. 

Just have to wait for a cloud free sky again, fingers crossed. 

Cheers all

[Zeta Reticulan]

5 minutes ago, col said:

Just in from first light proper which gave me a nice view of jupiter. I could make three bands out nicely, but it was very bright so was similar to looking at a full moon in that the brightness washed things out a bit. 

Would a moon filter help with that? I'll give that a try next time. 

What was a surprise was how difficult it was to find jupiter in the eye peice, but that's something I'll no doubt get better at. 

Anyway I went between my 25, 10 and the 9 supplied eyepiece with the scope. 

All performed well, and the two speed focuser is a godsend, makes it easier to get the best focus. 

All in all I'm very happy with what I saw tonight, cloud stopped me looking at saturn and I was going to take a look at m31 but again cloud had other ideas. 

The time flew, I was out at 12 ish and came in at just before three only looking at jupiter. An enjoyable few hours which I'm hoping to do again soon. 

Just have to wait for a cloud free sky again, fingers crossed. 

Cheers all

A single polarising filter helps a lot with excess glare. It doesn't affect overall colour.

Or a variable polariser. Although some find the variable polarisers can diminish contrast. I've not noticed this myself. I regularly carry a Baader Single Polariser out with me (along with a Neodymium), regardless of what scope I take out. 

[Pixies]

If you are viewing bright planets, forget about dark adaption. I keep the kitchen lights on and occasionally look up. Some actually use a white torch on a sheet of white paper to desensitise their eyesight!

[bosun21]

The Baader contrast booster is great for observing Jupiter. I have tried several filters including variable moon filters and the Baader contrast booster wins out.

[Zeta Reticulan]

2 hours ago, bosun21 said:

The Baader contrast booster is great for observing Jupiter. I have tried several filters including variable moon filters and the Baader contrast booster wins out.

The Contrast Booster is very popular for Mars. Interestingly Baader claim their Semi APO filter is the best filter for Mars. I find the Contrast Booster most useful for Jupiter in twilight as it turns the surrounding sky darker. Generally though the yellow tint it imparts irritates me for Jupiter. I like it for Saturn as it helps make the Cassini Division stand out more.

 

I think the three Baader filters (Fringe Killer, Semi APO, Contrast Booster) roughly approximate to Wratten #8, #12 and #15 filters. I have a feeling that these Baader filters were originally intended to ameliorate CA in different size achromats. 

[col]

My second session and I'm pleased with how it went barring a couple of minor things. 

Iv concluded that the 30mm eye piece supplied with the scope is only good for deep sky objects, hopefully, as it didn't even identify saturn as an oval. I'll give that a try another time for deep sky targets. 

And the star test with a 6.3mm eye piece didn't do what I expected, it was more like a tiny globular cluster, unless I'm still doing it wrong, as I had good views of saturn and jupiter. Saturn was my target for this time and I was pleasantly surprised considering my star test not filling me with confidence. 

I found my 25 mm in a 2x Barlow gave the best views, clear and sharp when good seeing seemed to switch on now and then. 

The 6.3 gave a decent view but was soft, so reverted back to the 25 in the Barlow and enjoyed the show. 

It was the same with jupiter, though I could make a slight orange colour out in the bands this time. 

Also trying a moon filter on jupiter did help with the brightness, but didn't really improve detail. 

All in all I was very happy with my main target of the night, Saturn. It too seemed to turn sharp now and then as if the seeing got better the odd time. 

I also had a go at M31, but could I hell find it in the scope, even though I could with my binos. I'll keep trying with that and I'm sure I'll get it eventually. 

All in all I had a great night, and seeing the rings of saturn as sharp as they were was a real treat. 

Mars turned up just after I'd packed away, which makes it a three in the morning target for where I can see it over the roof, so that's for another time. 

Anyway, it's been a very nice session in the garden, I'm already looking forward to the next time. But tonight was the only night this week where the clouds cleared for a few hours. So I made sure I got the scope out in case its going to be a while before the next clear night. 

I'll check collimation again as the star test didn't show concentric circles but what looked like a tiny globular cluster so I'll read up about how to do it again. 

Though it didn't seem to spoil the views tonight. 

Cheers all. 

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, col said:

My second session and I'm pleased with how it went barring a couple of minor things. 

Iv concluded that the 30mm eye piece supplied with the scope is only good for deep sky objects, hopefully, as it didn't even identify saturn as an oval. I'll give that a try another time for deep sky targets. 

And the star test with a 6.3mm eye piece didn't do what I expected, it was more like a tiny globular cluster, unless I'm still doing it wrong, as I had good views of saturn and jupiter. Saturn was my target for this time and I was pleasantly surprised considering my star test not filling me with confidence. 

I found my 25 mm in a 2x Barlow gave the best views, clear and sharp when good seeing seemed to switch on now and then. 

The 6.3 gave a decent view but was soft, so reverted back to the 25 in the Barlow and enjoyed the show. 

It was the same with jupiter, though I could make a slight orange colour out in the bands this time. 

Also trying a moon filter on jupiter did help with the brightness, but didn't really improve detail. 

All in all I was very happy with my main target of the night, Saturn. It too seemed to turn sharp now and then as if the seeing got better the odd time. 

I also had a go at M31, but could I hell find it in the scope, even though I could with my binos. I'll keep trying with that and I'm sure I'll get it eventually. 

All in all I had a great night, and seeing the rings of saturn as sharp as they were was a real treat. 

Mars turned up just after I'd packed away, which makes it a three in the morning target for where I can see it over the roof, so that's for another time. 

Anyway, it's been a very nice session in the garden, I'm already looking forward to the next time. But tonight was the only night this week where the clouds cleared for a few hours. So I made sure I got the scope out in case its going to be a while before the next clear night. 

I'll check collimation again as the star test didn't show concentric circles but what looked like a tiny globular cluster so I'll read up about how to do it again. 

Though it didn't seem to spoil the views tonight. 

Cheers all. 

 

 

Add a setting circle and a angle guage.  That will make life much easier when trying to find things.  You may want to consider adding some other type of finder.  Some people like red dot finders, some like Telrad/Rigel type stuff.  I prefer using a laser pointer in a dual mount.  It works very well for me, you do have to be mindful of aircraft when using one.  Welcome to the wonderful world of dobs.  I have attached photos of my finder set up.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Mike Q

[col]

Cheers Mike Q that lazer looks a bit more powerful than the usual ones. 

My finder was set up, I just couldn't seem to get the dim fuzzy blob to show in my eyepeice, as when I swapped to my binos there it was lol. 

I was obviously missing it with my lack of experience, but that's my next target. 

I'll keep trying until I get it, iv had it in my Tal 100r before. But then part of the enjoyment for me is the hunt. 

The simplicity of the dob is enjoyable though, I'm sure I'll soon start finding things with practice. 

[Louis D]

11 hours ago, col said:

I'll check collimation again as the star test didn't show concentric circles but what looked like a tiny globular cluster

It could have been seeing conditions breaking up the airy disk.  Make sure to pick a semi-bright star near zenith to minimize seeing conditions.  Also, the star must be centered or the star test won't tell you much about collimation.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Louis D

[col]

Thanks Louis D, I'll give it another go and take your advice.

The seeing conditions weren't great and I was at about fifty degrees on a star I could see at the time. 

I'll do it to zenith and a dark clear night, it might take a while though 😊

I checked collimation earlier and seems perfect, so must be down to me or the eye peice possibly? 

I'm thinking about some new ones as I'v had these twenty odd years and might not be at their best. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by col

[Guest]

9 hours ago, col said:

Cheers Mike Q that lazer looks a bit more powerful than the usual ones. 

My finder was set up, I just couldn't seem to get the dim fuzzy blob to show in my eyepeice, as when I swapped to my binos there it was lol. 

I was obviously missing it with my lack of experience, but that's my next target. 

I'll keep trying until I get it, iv had it in my Tal 100r before. But then part of the enjoyment for me is the hunt. 

The simplicity of the dob is enjoyable though, I'm sure I'll soon start finding things with practice. 

Actually no that laser isn't any more powerful then normal.  Its just a basic run of the mil Z Bolt green laser.  

[Louis D]

19 hours ago, Mike Q said:

Actually no that laser isn't any more powerful then normal.  Its just a basic run of the mil Z Bolt green laser.  

Not like this one.  You'd definitely NOT want to shine this GLP at the sky.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Not like this one.  You'd definitely NOT want to shine this GLP at the sky.

Nope....nowhere even close to that one.

[col]

I'm just in from a good session with the SL 8" Dob. 

Again I focused on saturn as it was the first to appear at approximately 22.30 in my viewing area, and again was good but not as good as the last time with what seemed like a little hazy looking sky. 

I also tried the Stellalyra 2" 30mm eyepiece again and  found it was able to identify Saturn's shape nicely this time, why it wouldn't last time I don't know. But this time it was fine. 

I then used my Tal 25 mm with the 2x Barlow as that seems to be the sweet spot for planets with my Dob. 

Again it was good but not as clear as last time, but I enjoyed the view for a while. Then trying the Stellalyra 9mm that came with the scope I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the view was. Possibly not as sharp as the 25mm  and the 2x Barlow but not much at all in it. 

By this time I decided to nip in and grab a coffee and decide what to go for next. 

Deciding the Andromeda galaxy was my next target i put the 25mm and 2x Barlow in and took a guess at where it was in relation to cassiopiea. And with a stroke of luck had it in my eyepiece within seconds. 

My first deep sky object, I was chuffed to bits. 

Thinking that less is better for deep sky i popped the 2" 30 mm stellalyra in and found M31 again easily. This time I could see more of a difference with the inner and outer fuzzy blob, with it being slightly lighter in the seemingly centre of the galaxy. 

But also what I noticed with averted vision at first and by accident, as I was concentrating on M31, was a smaller fuzzy blob not far from M31, but showed up near the edge of my field of view with the 30mm in. 

On looking it up on Redshift, it seems its m110, an elliptical galaxy that I only noticed accidentally at first. 

So now I have my first two deep sky objects, which I'm over the moon with, no pun intended. 

By this time it was after midnight and I was thinking of packing up as I could see a bank of clouds heading my way. 

But just as I walked to the other side of the garden, just to see how much clear sky was left, Jupiter popped up from behind the house roof. 

I had to lift the dob and base to place it at the other side of the garden where I could see Jupiter, which isn't too difficult to do. 

My favourite 25 mm and the 2x Barlow went in and I got a cracking view of jupiter with even more detail than last time. 

I easily saw the Orange bands and can only put that down to thin whisps of cloud dimming jupiter slightly and acting like a filter. 

Iv not seen the great red spot yet, but I'll be keeping my eye open on that one. 

Unfortunately Jupiter got dimmer and dimmer as the clouds got thicker, so it was time to call it a night. 

I must say the three hours ish I was out tonight were very enjoyable and can't wait for the next clear sky. 

Next time I'll have a couple of deep sky objects in mind to try and find, fingers crossed.